Monsanto cannabis yes or no? The DNA Protection Act of 2013

Genetically Engineered Cannabis yes or no?


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Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
"General Electric"
That was a joke right? Either way thanks for the lol...just in case it wasn't a joke then GE means Genetic Engineering and the subject being referred to in that conversation is called Eugenics.
If you must be in this thread then how about be useful and tell me how I load an avatar?
Thanks again<3
the accepted acronym for genetically modified organisms and the processes involved is GMO.

when you say GE, even in this context many will assume General Electric since they in fact are the parent company of several GMO innovators, and they manufacture a lot of the hardware used in making genetic modifications.

genetic engineering is usually used in the context of science fiction, where an organism is designed from the ground up (usually by a dangerously wacky madman or some sinister alien race...) for a particular purpose.

if you wish to add an image and make it your picture to the left (avatar) log in and go to "My Rollitup" (toolbar top right of every page) and look to the left. youll see a frame titled "My Settings" select "Edit Avatar" use one of the defaults, or upload your own. you may also direct to a URL but if the image you use goes 404 at a later date you will most likely catch the Aids.
 

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Thread Godwin'd!! ;)

The analogy collapses. Hitler and his eugenicist confrères were into selective breeding of humans, the way we've done to pets, livestock and crops.
Genetic engineering is an entirely different toolset and technique. It no longer relies on the recessive palette.

Want half of my ham&cheese? :mrgreen: cn

<add> to load an avatar, go to "My Rollitup" and select Edit Avatar on the left. You can then ctrl V an image (including a gif, if its size does not exceed the site's limit) directly in.
Yup I had a suspicion something like all that was going to happen if dropped the H bomb lol...and thanks for the avatar answer.
The thing about the H bomb though is that its not really about the technological capabilities of that era as much as its about intent.
Do you really think H and DuPont and others weren't already deep into the notion that some day this technology would be at hand and intended on being the first to develop such?
I would pose to you that H labs are exactly where some of the most root foundational work done in this area probably started, what with no shortage of prisoner test subjects etc especially with the IG Farben/Auschwitz operations going on.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Yup I had a suspicion something like all that was going to happen if dropped the H bomb lol...and thanks for the avatar answer.
The thing about the H bomb though is that its not really about the technological capabilities of that era as much as its about intent.
Do you really think H and DuPont and others weren't already deep into the notion that some day this technology would be at hand and intended on being the first to develop such?
I would pose to you that H labs are exactly where some of the most root foundational work done in this area probably started, what with no shortage of prisoner test subjects etc especially with the IG Farben/Auschwitz operations going on.
What ruins this reverie is that the work defining the basis of genetic chemistry wasn't done 'til the '50s. The identity of DNA as the genetic material was discovered in '44 by an American research group. Without the chemical basis of heredity, all we could have is conventional selective breeding.

Seventy years have passed, and our genetic Odyssey (in the sense of a blundering stumble in the dark) has brought very little by way of practical gen-eng technology. Much sensationalized work was done on developing a tech to read coded strings of DNA (in the process highlighting the importance of epigenetics and proteomics, which are as much a frontier today as genetics was in the '40s), and some remarkably heavy-handed but successful gene splices into organisms across specific and phyletic lines. We have not come very far at all, and it'll be probably a good century (presuming continuity of prosperity!) before we get good enough to begin doing the things that the old-school eugenicists had in mind.
And I imagine that they, especially the Germans, were smart enough to understand that the time horizon was against them. cn
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Bear,

Epigenes prove Darwin was partly wrong and Lamarck is partly right. Life is much more complicated than anyone thought.
 

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
What ruins this reverie is that the work defining the basis of genetic chemistry wasn't done 'til the '50s. The identity of DNA as the genetic material was discovered in '44 by an American research group. Without the chemical basis of heredity, all we could have is conventional selective breeding.

Seventy years have passed, and our genetic Odyssey (in the sense of a blundering stumble in the dark) has brought very little by way of practical gen-eng technology. Much sensationalized work was done on developing a tech to read coded strings of DNA (in the process highlighting the importance of epigenetics and proteomics, which are as much a frontier today as genetics was in the '40s), and some remarkably heavy-handed but successful gene splices into organisms across specific and phyletic lines. We have not come very far at all, and it'll be probably a good century (presuming continuity of prosperity!) before we get good enough to begin doing the things that the old-school eugenicists had in mind.
And I imagine that they, especially the Germans, were smart enough to understand that the time horizon was against them. cn
I don't challenge anything you've stated here accept "What ruins this reverie", (did you go to Boise state or UC Davis?lol;), but do you really disagree that this technology was 'still just a twinkle in dad's eye' as they say, dad being H et al?
OK at risk of another thread bomb from the dr., here I go again lol all apologies in advance just as before, but to me trying to wriggle out of H already trying to work in this direction even if only entertaining theories of this kind of technology is about as plausible as saying the US gov could have never foreseen planes, highjacked or otherwise crashing into the trade towers as was their standard PR line at the time.
 

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Life is much more complicated than anyone thought.
Now that's what I'm talking about, thanks<3
I would add 'or will think for a long time to come', which is why its just not wise to mess with the houses foundation until we have a better grip on what actions do or do not bring the house down. That's what labs are for, what's going on now is fueled purely by profit margins, and that's always a dangerous motivation, it's what motivates paid killers and diverts them from their consciences.
Watch the teli for 10 minutes and you will see probably at least 2 commercials trying to sell you 'medicine's' that have possible side effects that sound like they are reading from the causes of action in a criminal prosecution, most all including death...and these are some of the same folks who are busy redesigning our genetic existence...OK...
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
My question to the OP is: why the fuck not?

It's a plant, we've been cross-breeding, inter-breeding, self breeding, "cloning", doing tissue cultures for years without any complaint.

Why just use a computer as-is when you now know it's programming language?
Right, as recently as 14 years ago they thought 90% of the nucleus contained "junk DNA". Now we know differently. We barely are scratching the surface, but let's just throw it all out there into the wild, almost completely untested, because that's smart.

Reality is we should abolish patent law. Do that and no one bothers with GMOs because they haven't improved anything, at all, and to think we'll be able to by randomly inserting genes that will alter incredibly complicated systems that took billions of years to evolve (all without causing any harm) with a gene gun is pretty hilarious at best. The human ego knows no boundaries.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I don't challenge anything you've stated here accept "What ruins this reverie", (did you go to Boise state or UC Davis?lol;), but do you really disagree that this technology was 'still just a twinkle in dad's eye' as they say, dad being H et al?
OK at risk of another thread bomb from the dr., here I go again lol all apologies in advance just as before, but to me trying to wriggle out of H already trying to work in this direction even if only entertaining theories of this kind of technology is about as plausible as saying the US gov could have never foreseen planes, highjacked or otherwise crashing into the trade towers as was their standard PR line at the time.
Hitler's embracing of eugenics was not a cause of action,, it was a RESULT of his desperate need for a scapegoat. the eugenicist's claptrap provided him with "evidence" of the inferiority of jews slavs poles negroes and all manner of people who's great sin was being Not German Enough. even his "aryan" bullshit was simply a slapdash re-imagining of history for his own purposes. describing the nordic peoples as aryan is not only idiotic abundantly obviously flawed. if he werent Der Fuhrer he would have been laughed out of town. Hitler was also an ardent believer in astrology, esoteric mysticism, the psuedo-philosophies of Marx and Engles, and the trenchant insights of Benito Mussolini none of which are scientific either, yet all have been put up as such by adherents, proponents and touts many times over the years. if in some distant almost unimaginably madcap future some chucklehead actually draws a tenuous statistical link between the seasonal period in which one is born, and some percieved character trait in adults, would this be "Proof" of the veracity of the noble art of astrology? in that distant time i will still call bullshit even if Der Fuhrer thinks it's a grand idea.

describing eugenics or eugenicists as anything scientific is way off the mark. most eugenics was based on fundamentally flawed assumptions, like average cranial capacity of a social group being a measure of intelligence, as well as the brilliant observations obtained through the rigorous science of phrenology, and the powerful theories of insightful thinkers like De Gobineau, and drunken racist rednecks wearing gravy stained klan robes. as much as i despise the feraful and misinformed hippies who believe that eating GMO corn will transform them into hideous mutations or trigger allergies from 5 genus away, trying to intimate that genetic research is the fruit of the poison tree with it's roots in hitler's bowel movements is just despicable.

when you wind up declaring GMO's are bad because------------> (6 degrees of separation to hitler)---------------> therefore anyone who doesnt hate GMO's is in league with the Nazis... you have already lost the argument.

you keep grasping for new reasons why your little bill is a good idea

for stoners, it will keep Monsanto from making GMO dope to poison all the little potheads.
for anarcho-occupier nutbars,, it puts corporations in their place
for econauts it preserves nature's balance
for religious wackadoos it protects Intelligent Design's designs\
for socialists it stigmatizes profit
for communists it "protects the commons" while expanding "the commons" to include ephemeral ideas and the natural world
for the anti-hitler brigade you conflate genetic science with eugenicists and drop the the H-Bomb like Harry Truman.

im curious what you will include to sway the anti-gun lobby and the free abortion on demand crowd.
 

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Right, as recently as 14 years ago they thought 90% of the nucleus contained "junk DNA". Now we know differently. We barely are scratching the surface, but let's just throw it all out there into the wild, almost completely untested, because that's smart.

Reality is we should abolish patent law. Do that and no one bothers with GMOs because they haven't improved anything, at all, and to think we'll be able to by randomly inserting genes that will alter incredibly complicated systems that took billions of years to evolve (all without causing any harm) with a gene gun is pretty hilarious at best. The human ego knows no boundaries.
Right as acidfree rain from where I sit, it's the "Reality is we should abolish patent law" that is the tough proposition as I went over briefly in a previous post.
Thanks for the perfectly critically thought out response in my opinion<3
 

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
you keep grasping for new reasons why your little bill is a good idea
for stoners, it will keep Monsanto from making GMO dope to poison all the little potheads.
for anarcho-occupier nutbars,, it puts corporations in their place
for econauts it preserves nature's balance
for religious wackadoos it protects Intelligent Design's designs\
for socialists it stigmatizes profit
for communists it "protects the commons" while expanding "the commons" to include ephemeral ideas and the natural world
for the anti-hitler brigade you conflate genetic science with eugenicists and drop the the H-Bomb like Harry Truman.
I'm considering using your quote as my new signature lol, seriously though I am, the only thing is you actually left out a bunch of other 'groups' or folks we had in mind to cross connect when wording this Act/or the working draft of.
I truly must thank you for giving me a true ho ho ho belly laugh on this christmas eve<3
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Right as acidfree rain from where I sit, it's the "Reality is we should abolish patent law" that is the tough proposition as I went over briefly in a previous post.
Thanks for the perfectly critically thought out response in my opinion<3
It's the only proposition that makes sense if we really want what's best for humanity.

I agree, good luck in getting it done.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
This has the potential to ruin my business prospects and scrub two years of work for me. It is clear that this is an attempt to deal with patent issues regarding plant organisms and that is exactly the audience I am playing to with my products.
Then for Jesus' sake, I hope you fail.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Better living through Chemistry.
--Monsanto

The cannabis of today bears zero resemblance to the cannabis of the 60's. It's been genetically engineered. That genetic engineering did not occur by our direct manipulation of the cannabis genome but via decades of selected, focused, breeding programs.

Does it make a difference if the proteins are cleaved by a restriction enzyme or by years of selective breeding, if the end product is the same? But if we can arrive at one faster than the other does that make it more or less useful? Should one be banned and the other embraced, why?

Genetic modifications can be harmful to the carrier and to the population. It really doesn't matter how the genetic modification occurred, does it?

Science has come so far so fast we have to rely on very strong peer review and ethics committees. I think it's impossible to legislate things like science and morality. It just won't work. It's been tried in the past, the Catholic Church and Galileo, the Scopes Monkey Trial, etc....
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
That is both harsh and judgmental imo. cn
Then he should watch his tongue when he spews his gun "logic." For many of us guns mean life or death in bad neighborhoods. He can always make a come back and get a new job. I'm not Hindu, so I can't make a come back after death. Nor can my family. If because of him they ban guns, that's much more harsh and judgmental imo.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Better living through Chemistry.
--Monsanto

The cannabis of today bears zero resemblance to the cannabis of the 60's. It's been genetically engineered. That genetic engineering did not occur by our direct manipulation of the cannabis genome but via decades of selected, focused, breeding programs.

Does it make a difference if the proteins are cleaved by a restriction enzyme or by years of selective breeding, if the end product is the same? But if we can arrive at one faster than the other does that make it more or less useful? Should one be banned and the other embraced, why?

Genetic modifications can be harmful to the carrier and to the population. It really doesn't matter how the genetic modification occurred, does it?

Science has come so far so fast we have to rely on very strong peer review and ethics committees. I think it's impossible to legislate things like science and morality. It just won't work. It's been tried in the past, the Catholic Church and Galileo, the Scopes Monkey Trial, etc....
The terms are used to highlight a technical distinction. While one can parse the words to make selective breeding a sort of genetic manipulation, the term "genetic engineering" has been used specifically to denote the snipping and splicing of direct genetic material, followed by the (re)introduction of that manipulated molecule into a germ line. cn
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
The terms are used to highlight a technical distinction. While one can parse the words to make selective breeding a sort of genetic manipulation, the term "genetic engineering" has been used specifically to denote the snipping and splicing of direct genetic material, followed by the (re)introduction of that manipulated molecule into a germ line. cn
Foreign (to the species) genetic material I would say is more accurate, although you could use the same techniques with genes from within the species, I haven't seen or heard of it.
 
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