Month 2 not pretty =( (Newbie)

How long has this problem been going on? 3-4 weeks ago it started...
What STRAIN are you growing? No idea, a collection of seeds from good stuff.
What was the establishing technique? seed
What is the age of your plants? 2 months from the time i put seed in soil (18 on-3 off-1 on-2 off Light schdule)
How Tall are the plants? left side is 2", middle 4", right 4.5 "
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? veg
What Technique are you using? indoor soil
What size pots are you using? 9 inch/1 gallon pots
What substrate/medium are you using? organic soil with perlite
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? Fox Farm Liquid Fert 1/4 recommened (USED ONCE) and Miracle grow 1/4 of recommended (USED ONCE) i spread the use out 1 time every 2 weeks... I water every 72 hours or even longer, but i was watering too often in the beginning i think maybe every other day.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? Miracle grow - 18-18-21 and Fox farm -.01-.03 -.07
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? I tested it three weeks ago and it was netural (7)
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? I used a capsule with the run off in a test tube and matched it by color chart.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? A bit over a week ago. 1 every 14 days
What size bulb are you using? 3-120 soft light watt cfl, 3-100 watt daylight cfl 1 - 40 watt daylight florescent bulb
What is the distance to the canopy?1 -3 inches in some spots
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 50 - 60
What is the canopy temperature?70-75
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)75 day 70 night
What is the current Air Flow? Great air flow, Oscillating fan on low with exhaust above
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?Yes, but Oscillating on low
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? it has been moist
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Hard, but i let it sit for 24 hours to get chlorine out
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap water
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? I've trimmed dead spots in the last week
Have any pest chemicals been used? I used Diatomatious Earth all over the plants which is the white stuff in the soil. 3-1 fungus killer. Both are non toxins that can be used on fruits we eat and Hydrogen Peroxide 1 to 4 of water ratio too.
Are plant's infected with pest's? ATM not really, I did have a horrible issue with fungus gnats for 2 weeks. I think they are the reason why they look the way they do.

Hello there, I'm a first time poster/ indoor gardener. I've documented my experience on a calendar and I'm hoping you pro's can help me save my babbies!!!
April 26,
I started 3 seeds in peat moss containers and the seedlings went great sitting inside my window next to my tomatoes and peppers using the natural sunlight schedule for 3 weeks. I was able to grow them without any suspicion from 2 roommates or the occasional visitor for almost a month. I was amazed at how easy it was to get them started without people acknowledging them. I felt very sneaky.

May 15th,
I decided to move them into the basement in my storage room for the next phase. My set up was was going good but I know I was over watering them. I use a couple drops of fox farm liquid fert with my 2 quarts of water for the 3 plants. I was watering them maybe every other day for 2 weeks with 2 quarts for the 3 plants.

June 1st,
2 weeks later the plants still aren't getting taller and now they are starting to have a yellowish color on the lower leaves. The leaves are definitely getting bigger but the stem isn't growing. I was also seeing a gnat here and there and had no idea what to expect next. I still think they came from the peat moss composting but you're the experts.

June 6th,
It's just not one or two gnats anymore there are dozens flying around going in and out of the soil. I panic. I run a PH test on the soil run off and it measures at netural (7).

June 7th,
Panic continues,
I tried the natural methods of soapy water dish, yellow bug lights and it only seemed to intensify them.

June 8th, I got 3-1 fungus killer. Applied with water. Next day, Results of the insects were still there. The fungus killer is for the babies.

June 10th,
I get diatomacious earth. I put about 1/4 inch covering the top soil and sprinkle on plants. I also got the fly strips because my two sided tape wasn't working to hold them.

June 12th,
Fungus gnats numbers are down big time. I watered plants with a 1 to 4 hydrogen peroxide to water ratio and listen to the plants fizzle. I also managed to drop the pot on the left of the picture (blue pot) and soil was everywhere. I did see long roots which gave me some hope. So I flushed it and watched about 20 gnats come flying out. I put it back into another pot. Plants are still yellowish/brown lower leaves.

June 18th,
I give them some water with Miracle grow fertilizer 1/4 the recommened amount and only a couple gnats now, but my fly strips look like a gnat killing field. Plants are still yellowish/brown spots. They feel like a fake plastic tree.

June 22nd,
Gnats are almost non existent now. I water with my 1 to 4 hydro peroxide / water. Plants seem to have more life after the water. I'm letting the soil become very dry at the top before waterings. They still have the spots so I trimmed off a lot of brown tips and trim leaves that look very unhealthy.

June 27th (present)
Gnats presence is down to 1 or 2 survivors and I noticed a strange beetle on my plant. Looked like a flea beetle but it didn't jumple like one. Killed it and hopefully its friends stay out of this picture. Soil is very dry on surface and if i stick my finger into the soil 3 inches there is a bit of moisture still so I will water tomorrow.

My research tells me this
- over nutrients ( I've given it 2 doses and it was 1/4 recommened. One was fox farm liquid fert which i realized after the fact was for flowering stage and not veg, the next was miracle grow 18 - 18 - 21 i think.)
- under nutrients
- fungus gnats lavre eating roots
- over watering
- underwaters
- Phosphorus deficiencies
- potassium
- magnessium
- too much light/ too little light
- etc...

My plant problems seem to be any of the above to my eyes. I'm pointing at the gnats or when I hit them at 4 weeks old with the fox farm even thought the dose was seriously about 2 or 3 drops.

any questions/ input is greatly appreciated.

I have access to walmart and local garden shops i don't want to be ordering anything off the internet though.

well set up post, is the first thing i have to say. i feel like i dont need to ask any questions because you told us what your working with

second, i can hardly believe these plants are 2 mo old! there so small, they look like 2 weekers. maybe it has something to do with only receiving a few hours of light for the first mo of its life. you realize one sid of your house gets a tops of like 6 hrs of light

third, i think your light cycle is a little confusing, it was to me so i can imagine how your plant feels. just give it 24/0, 20/4 or 18/6. keep it simple, i dont understand are you trying to trick your plant into thinking there are leap days?

i wouldnt wory about nute burn, you seem responsable with the doses. also a big mistake you did not make that a lot of noobs do is over watering. you understand it needs to be dry to grow as much as it needs to be wet to grow

i had a little gnat problem too, kill the buggers when you see them so they dont get a chance to fuck

i honestly dont know why your plants are runty. i would keep them but start one or two new ones and see if they dont surpass your runts. feed them only water and air and see how they do, hold off on the nutes untill there like 2x this size

I thank you for the reply! I totally agree with the window thing with the lack of light, but they seemed to grow better there than my room. My light schedule will go to 18/6 after your comment. I was doing that weird time because I read it ensures females.

I forgot to mention when I first moved them to the room i was using only daylight 3 cfl 100 watt /40 watt flouresent and no soft lights until about 2 weeks ago. So I think we can narrow down the runts - it happened when I moved them to room and went on a funky lights/light schedule. They are also in peat moss containers would that be preventing the roots full potential?

And my other question is - really lay off the nutrients until 6 plus inch? Most say after a month hit em... I see you what you mean though that they aren't the typical size of a month old.

KaleoXxX said:

second, i can hardly believe these plants are 2 mo old! there so small, they look like 2 weekers

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Thats exactly what I thought. Man!... as small as those are, you might as well start over, because about the only loss will be time. And I'm not ripping on you, just thinking efficiently.. a, count your loss, type thing.

ya there not ur average 1 mo olds. id hold off on nutes but who am i? i only like to use water and molasses. the peat moss containers tho! those things with like a cloth wraper around a little soil ball? i never bothered with these but my mom uses them for her veg garden. im prity sure we removed the cloth before transplanting them into the ground. they are supposed to be quick and easy and biodegradeable but ill bet the problem is your plants are rootlocked and stunted

Scubasteve420 said:

My light schedule will go to 18/6 after your comment. I was doing that weird time because I read it ensures females.

They are also in peat moss containers would that be preventing the roots full potential?

Click to expand...

It won't ensure females, it'll ensure stress and you'll think you have females until it turns hermmie and you have a self polinated plant with yucky ass seeds.

Use good 'ol black dirt instead of that peat moss.

The peat moss containers aren't too think maybe 1/8 inch thick. I don't think they decomposed yet. It's making sense. I would drop them and start new but I'm out of ammo. I will say the new growth isn't looking bad it looks the way it's supposed to just the older low leaves.

Question - If I fight this battle out and get them to flower will I have some sickly looking babbies or is there any chance I could still be on the cover of high times at this point?

naw ill bet they bounce back when evrything works its self out. it cant be too hard too be out of seeds, just get some good ass regs and pop em in the ground or germinate.if they stay short they might grow the littlest buds ever, lol. i wouldnt get ready to be on high times, unless its for your method of keeping plants runty, lol. ya im just having fun at this point.

ya so id say start some new ones, natural style. take the seeds from bud to soil water then grow. keep the others untill the new plants are ready to flower. honestly i think i remember reading someone who grew 3 plants of the same strain and the runt was the most potent female and the biggest was a male

Don't chop them down until you know what the sex is. It's good practice either way. Those plants are so small they are like dwarfed bonsai trees, but cannabis. They should've passed that size in the first two weeks. I'm surprised that you were able to keep them alive so long and grow so small, it's like they went thru a busted time machine or something....

All the grow issues your having aside, the first and real problem is your seed source...good for practice, but thats it. And I say this because I've had such bad luck with bag seed. You'll probably end up with hermmies. I did, the first few attempts. And cops don't care if you got males and fucked up females, so you might as well go for the Gold and not waste time.

When you pull a seed out of a really good bag and think, "oh man, I'm going to save that seed, this is some killer smoke!" Ask yourself, how that seed was created. It wasn't created out of deliberate and selectve breeding, in other words, male pollen from another plant didn't come into contact with that female bud you're smoking and create those seeds. The proof in that, is, you would have more seed clusters, not just one here, one there.

Those seeds were, infact, created out of a stress or genetic factor(s), the plant may have partially grown male parts and pollinated itself. Once that happens, once that seed is created, its genetic fate will have a high likelihood of being hermaphrodite. And you're probably growing those seeds as we speak...like i said, nothing wrong with it, but when it happened to me the first time, I was so disgusted, and the pot was horrible.

And once you get started growing, that in and of itself becomes a high too, so you're constantly trying to perfect your hobby. Having inferior materials is not as trivial as one may think. Seed quality, Lighting, Odor control, Ventilation & Temp, Soil comp, There's no way to half ass it and get anything close to "high times" quality rope.

You to me, seem like a really 'with it' guy, the kind of guy who understands things and isn't retarded, you may have to step out of your comfort zone and buy some stuff online, walmart doesn't have the supplys you need, bro. I wish best of luck to you.

I know I'm off topic a bit for what you're asking,

^^^ he is right, im just saying keep doing bagseeds till you know what your doing. dont go blowing 60 bucks on a 5 pack of feminzed seeds of the dopest dope only to mess it up. i want to see people grow bagseed and amaze themselve with the quality of carefuly grown bud as opposed to the neglected shit the seeds came out of

Status update -
- I haven't notice dramatic changes since I last posted on here (4 days ago). I did cut off more leaves that were 50% or more dead. I'm thinking that may have shocked the plants which stopped them from growing for awhile.

- I dug into the dirt a bit and I do see roots growing through some of the peatmoss.

- I went to add more soil since it looked like I had an inch to fill in the pot. Started pouring the organic junk in there and I noticed there were little gnats all over it. So, I dumped it into garbage (the new soft soil i applied) I don't know how many burrowed into the original soil. Very upsetting because I just got done fighting a war with these bastards.

- A positive note the plant's new growth looks great...Its just the old stuff that is dying.

Question - I'm seriously thinking of taking these outside and letting nature have it's way with them. Fumigating my room letting it clear for 4 days and starting from scratch. I'm curious how long it takes for unhealthy plants to recover? I'm thinking 2 weeks and if it isn't getting better move to plan B.

You still have hope, and it could be a combination of things. I had a problem with my clones, in which they looked very similar to yours. What I mistakenly did was hit the clones with a foliar spray of ThriveAlive Red-Solution. When plants are young they can't handle nutrients of any kind, unless the nutes are soil/spray based and specifically for seedlings and young plants. Whatever is in the soil and regular feeding water is all the plant needs. Anything else you give them is just hurting the plant. Fox Farm makes really strong nutes/ferts, even the feeding chart Fox Farm gives you specifically says not to give the plants any nutes, just regular water, during the first week of vegging. And vegging is usually determined after the first few sets of leaves have developed... and you appear to still have some growing to do before they're solidly vegg'ing.

As far as your gnat problem, that is normal and typical... no matter how thoroughly you fumigate you're bound to encounter more gnats and other pests during your grow... it's part of nature (not to sound like a complete hippie). Purchase some Neem Oil. You can get that at any hydroponics shop or online. I use Einstein's Neem Oil (cost me $26) but it works wonder. And to use the neem oil you have to buy a Wetting Agent, I use CoCo-Wet. The wetting agent allows the neem oil to grip onto your plant's leaves and stems when you spray it. I spray the soil too to kill any laid eggs and it works very efficiently. It kills every pest and is actually beneficial for the leaves, and makes them greener. Side note: Never spray Neem Oil or anything under a light, it will burn the leaves and potentially mess your bulb up.

You think I could of nute burned them with the foxfarm shot eh?

It did all happen shortly after that and I've definitely thought about that so...

the days that I watered them I hit them pretty hard with water hoping to flush any overdoses.

Do you recommend a transplant asap?

I'm not sure because I don't have a ton of first-hand experience, and my first instinct is that a transplant could just shock the plant some more. It depends how far the roots are into the soil. New plants sometimes don't even have much of a root structure where a transplant would matter if you gave the soil a good flush.

You'll have to cut those bottom light yellow/dead/diseased leaves and wait for new growth at the top... shouldn't take more than 2 weeks if its that nute problem.

I also re-read your post and your suppose to space your Fox Farm feedings out more to once a week... and don't over water. You should cut back any nutes you give them and dilute them more. Your plants need more light and fresh clean water, good conditions, etc for the next 7-14 days to flush and recover, and you should see some good growth coming out the top.

So it's been a little over two weeks since I did a status update. I've added another cfl 100 watt white (Sunlight) bulb. Now I have 3 100 soft white and 3 100 white light plus my 40 watt flour. I also added a bit of nutrients (miracle grow) and all 3 of the plants grew about an 1" in the two weeks. I have been using the no pest hot shot with wonderful results. I trimmed the dead leaves and did not run my oscillating fan or my exhaust for 10 days.

The good news is it started smelling like it should in a grow room, the bad news is the dwarf plant from my previous pictures started to sprout seeds. No kidding! That plant isn't more than 3 " tall and it made seeds. I don't think my 4 mp camera can show you but they are there. I moved it outside and I'm going to let nature have it's way. Hopefully, it will make inbetween'ers.

I'm thinking that happened because for one it came from a bag seed. I most likely over nutriented them the first month. I also dropped it and broke the pot about 2 months ago. It lived a hard life and couldn't take pain of choosing between male or female so it hermied out. It is almost a 3 month old plant by the way.

Now the questions -
These plants are almost 3 months old and my runt already sprouted seeds. Should I start flowering my 5" tall plants or since they are finally behaving properly give them more time?
Thanks a lot for replying guys! Helped me out a lot!!!

peat moss works great, but i used it with top soil and my plants are very healthy. I would start over because it seriously looks like your plants have aids from those pics.

No offense just trying to inject humor so u dont feel so down.

Mine are 2 1/2 weeks old and are that big or bigger just using organic soil from lowes, ghetto plastic tupperware, distilled water and 7 cfls.

Good luck man

Hey guy, 1st timers usually go thru this....keep it up and take some pointers and learn for the next grow. I read 75% of the posts but surely missed something but here is my suggestion. You need some success soon or you will loss hope in the hobby. Here is my suggestion to ramp up to seeing success in 3 weeks. I mean that plant will explode in growth....

- buy a digital ph meter $30 hanna/ ebay (and cleaning, storage, ph 7.01 test as well for up keep) if you haven't..until you have constant ph 6.5 soil/water/nuts things will look kinda sick from lock out due to off ph below 6 or above 7 ph. exact with digital will make it happen..
- buy FF Ocean forest soil and transplant knocking off a lot of soil around the roots. Will stress a couple days but then POW....Green leafs and growth in 4-7 days promise.
- with Ocean forest soil no need for nuts in the next month at least of veg...That stuff has all the needs and you won't be fing it up adding nuts most likely over or under the needs of the plant..
- water when dry....maybe a day after you think it needs it. these plants like to have a couple drying out days at the roots. Most overwater anyway....start with depending on pot size 1 gallon ex. water in 6 days...then try 5 days....you will notice how the leafs react and like the situation...enough there for 3 or 4 weeks.

Do this for 3 weeks and get back to us....Better yet if you have more bagseeds start some with this idea and 3 weeks from sprout you will have 6 inch plants with solid green leafs maybe 6-10 leafs...That should gain some confidents in the hobby.....

next time.....

your not anywhere close to flowering. Really timing wise you need good growth for a month before flowering...That means adding growth leaves and rarely if every dieing leaves. If appears your so out of wack you are subtracting dead leaves as fast as your growing new ones. If your at a garden center and see all the green growth on the plants with rare dead leafs. That is the healthy plant you need to throw into flower. Like a rose bush in the yard it shows good growth and then rose flowers..follow my suggestion it will happen..Oh, I'd get ride of the clay pots. They keep moisture and mold/fungus. Go with plastic pots or grow bags. That also helps with judging how much if any water is needed...note when just watered how heavy they are (very hard to judge in heavy clay pots) in plastic pots. When they feel light and sticking finger in almost 3 knuckles they are dry-time to water.. if the soil starts to crack on the sides of the pot from dryness time to water or maybe a day before but better on this side of dry vs. moist/wet constant soil....Remember this is a true weed....look in someones yard with a lot of weeds. when the yard goes without water the weeds grow better...

I hear you on the soil. I have flushed these plants two - three times. I figured that would of removed any impurities. I can get the fox farm soil, but it's 20 miles each way from my town.
The pots I use look like clay but they are plastic. The one ceramic one I had I broke it accidentally.
- I want to point out I'm being responsible on the watering. I doing the finger 3" deep in the soil and make sure it's not too moist before watering. Usually watering every 3-5 days depending on the moisture.
I'm going to try that new soil on a new seed and I'll continue to grow the two plants that are way behind schedule, but just you folks wait and see when I'm #1 in the cannabis cup!!! J/k but I'm going to make these little ladies into voluptuous vixens!!!

Yes the plants are 2.5 months behind schedule, but I would say they have made leaps and bounds in the last two weeks other than the 3" runt sprouting seeds. More pictures to come in 3 weeks!!! Thanks for the comments guys and keep them coming mucho help.

Good,

To be exact here is the perfect and easy soil recipe:

Soil Mix
Seedling thru 3 wks or clones- 1 gal. OF / 1 gal. fox farm light warrior / 1/2 gal. Perlite / 2 tbsp. domalite lime per gal. soil

3 wks. on - 2 gals. OF / 1/2 gal. Perlite / 2 tbsp. domalite lime per gal. soil
Domalite and perlite can be purchased at homedepot in the fert. area. Domolite lasts a long time..helps keep ph under control.