More Auto Breeding Questions

Leef · Feb 21, 2020

I got some durban poison and grew it out (all 11 popped) looking for stuff for spring. 4 of them started flowering within 3 weeks under 20 hr light. I separated them and let them do what they do. paper toweled one of the seeds that i mistakenly crushed

and it popped

stuck the others in the fridge.

One of the remaining plants showed female after 6-7 weeks and i flipped the rest to 12/12. All this tells me they are not stable at all. F1s? I took cuts off all the females. 3 different phenos including the later auto.

I have read through this https://www.rollitup.org/t/breeding-collective-information.479685/ and all I could find on the auto breeding through the search. Another week or two and I will know what I think of the three phenos.

Here is what I want to know. If I find something I like, or would like to add new genetics, and I would like to make it more stable/predictable for auto.
1. For the durdan, pick a happy male from the auto seeds I made X said durban female and back cross to it?
2. For adding new genetics, pick fave F1 from new genetic X durban male, and also back cross to durban male? Basically are rudellis traits the same as any other trait? Or will I get all different auto flower times as well as photos like what I started with?

Macncheesehaze · May 26, 2020

I’m trying to bread some autos too so I’ll be following this. Do you know if I can cross a male photo with a female auto and get autos?

Budzbuddha · May 26, 2020

Autoflowers with Photo :

The process of breeding autoflowering strains, as stated above, is relatively easy in its theory. However, if you want to cross traits from a non-autoflowering variety of cannabis with an autoflowering strain, things can get a bit more complicated. If you are already selectively breeding autoflowering strains, you can use your own plants to provide the autoflowering traits.

The autoflowering gene is recessive, meaning that both parent strains must posses the gene for it to be passed on. Therefore, this process isn’t as easy as breeding an autoflowering strain with a photoperiod strain and expecting a strain with autoflowering genes to pop out of the other end. Also, autoflowering genetics are known to be unstable, making stability and consistency a potential issue.
Even from the same seed batch as more pheno traits good and bad begin to express , hence further refining of line is needed.

To start the process, purchase an autoflowering strain or select one from the crop you have growing . Next, you will need to select a photoperiod strain, be that an indica, sativa, or hybrid variety. The strain you pick will depend on the desired traits you want your future strain to retain.

In most cases none of the offspring from these two plants will posses autoflowering traits. But don’t worry, that is merely part of this more complex process. The offspring will still carry the autoflowering gene and are capable of passing it on to the next generation.

When you breed the seeds of the offspring “ together” , autoflowering plants will come to be. Only 50% of the offspring will have passed on the gene, so only 25% of the next generation will be autoflowering in nature. It take 3 to 4 generations before good stability shows.

Macncheesehaze · May 26, 2020

Budzbuddha said:
Autoflowers with Photo :

The process of breeding autoflowering strains, as stated above, is relatively easy in its theory. However, if you want to cross traits from a non-autoflowering variety of cannabis with an autoflowering strain, things can get a bit more complicated. If you are already selectively breeding autoflowering strains, you can use your own plants to provide the autoflowering traits.

The autoflowering gene is recessive, meaning that both parent strains must posses the gene for it to be passed on. Therefore, this process isn’t as easy as breeding an autoflowering strain with a photoperiod strain and expecting a strain with autoflowering genes to pop out of the other end. Also, autoflowering genetics are known to be unstable, making stability and consistency a potential issue.
Even from the same seed batch as more pheno traits good and bad begin to express , hence further refining of line is needed.

To start the process, purchase an autoflowering strain or select one from the crop you have growing . Next, you will need to select a photoperiod strain, be that an indica, sativa, or hybrid variety. The strain you pick will depend on the desired traits you want your future strain to retain.

In most cases none of the offspring from these two plants will posses autoflowering traits. But don’t worry, that is merely part of this more complex process. The offspring will still carry the autoflowering gene and are capable of passing it on to the next generation.

When you breed the seeds of the offspring “ together” , autoflowering plants will come to be. Only 50% of the offspring will have passed on the gene, so only 25% of the next generation will be autoflowering in nature. It take 3 to 4 generations before good stability shows.

Your the truth bro if your ever in NY I got a fat j for ya!

MrToad69 · May 26, 2020

Well put Budz!

I've done exactly what this thread is enquiring about...

I crossed a male Jack the Ripper with a GG4 fem from Expert seeds...(this gave me the male influence)..all seeds had 1/2 Autoflower genes...which as stated is recessive...SO to get the Autoflowering trait to show again..I had to grow out these seeds, pick some of the best candidates and breed them with one another..Regardless of which males and females you pick from growing out the offspring seeds...the next generation will have approximately 1/4 Autoflowers...(f2s)

Silly question...as most Autoflowering strains I know are feminized...Your Durban are not feminized correct?

Budzbuddha · May 26, 2020

Creating S1 autos :

I take 2 seeds ( autos same strain ) , grow in solo cups . Around week 3/4 ( about 5 nodes + or - ) I mark stalk at halfway point of height
with marker. Below that line , I begin to spray mist CS / STS at lower nodes . I begin slightly ahead of natural time for it to show sex ( first pistils ) .... ( which shows plant is moving to next stage ) .... after about 10 days of application ( twice a day ) , nuts will form.

I stop spraying once “ lady nuts “ form ... and let plant continue to grow. Remember, top area of plant will flower , that is where the maturing female pollen below will be used. Once nuts are ready ( they grow fast ) , I carefully cut off those branches and either harvest pollen or when use a small plastic bag to cover cup and plant and shake to “ pollinate “.

Pistils of flowers will darken when successful, and can be improved by direct brushing flowers with same pollen.
Seeds take about 6 weeks to mature .... then you harvest seeds , toss the cup .

Using 2 autos :

Grow 2 autos in solo cups , treat one with CS / STS making female nuts ( you can spray whole plant ) . That plant will be for pollen / nut making only and cannot be consumed. Use that pollen to pollinate the other flowering cup .... that entire cup will seed out.
Toss pollen plant cup .... grow other to mature the seeds .... Harvest seeds in about 6 weeks , toss that cup.

You have F1 seeds feminized .

I find S1 seeds a little more in variety In pheno so there is some good hunting from these.
F1 autos a bit more uniform.

Experiment.

Budzbuddha · May 26, 2020

Backcrossing :

Breeding the plants from the third generation or better should result in a next generation of plants featuring 100% autoflowering genes.

Although this seems like the end of the process, and it can be, this is when the fun starts and the genetic potential usually opens up.
You can continue a similar breeding protocol to really bring out the traits of the first photoperiod strain you started the process with. This is known as backcrossing.
To do this, take the best specimens from your new autoflowering crop, and cross these plants with the original photoperiod variety. Then, repeat the above process until the third generation of 100% autoflowering plants is formed, this time with more of the desirable traits from the photoperiod strain. Selective breeding comes into play.

Macncheesehaze · May 26, 2020

Here’s where I’m personally stuck at. I didn’t know I had autos, 10 out of 10 of the seeds of this strain that I got from a local grower (I got hundreds of them all from the same plant) turned out to be autos. Now I had 1 cherry diesel Seed that turned out to be male. I want to breed that cherry diesel with these sour diesel autos but I’m not sure where these autos are in their genetic development since 10 out of 10 were autos. I just dropped 40 more to see further. How would I go about breading this cherry diesel to get the desired traits of the cherry or any other strain for that matter since I’d like to do it with these beautiful GG#4 I have to shorten the flowering. Also sorry for hijacking this thread it’s just been exciting trying to figure all this out

Budzbuddha · May 26, 2020

12/12 seed making :

You can also do regs the same way , except it takes a little time for plants to show sex . I typically run at least 4 or more to see which early growth / structure I am liking to do a “ mashup “ .... stocky / short node / etc.

Especially when running low on KEEPER strains . That way you don’t lose a strain you actually want to keep and continue.
Landrace for example.

Leef · May 30, 2020

Some answers...YAY. Anybody wanting to contribute info or questions is most welcome.
Thank you for all the info Budzbuddha. Very helpful stuff!

MrToad69 said:
Silly question...as most Autoflowering strains I know are feminized...Your Durban are not feminized correct?

These autos were from Ancestral Seeds. Auto regs. The larger durbans, although autos(strong influence) are cloneable.

Doing the STS thing...Day 6 from flip. Spraying every 5 days. Second dose yesterday. There are 3 each, back to front, Durban A, Blissful wizard, Durban B and Black hammer. Two of each three are getting STS...I was going to do a side by side colloidal silver comparison but I am happy to have gotten this far.

Plants look kinda bad as they were crammed in the back of my small space screaming for uppotting. I am lucky the durbans didnt start flowering. I got my space back, uppotted and have started my first fem seed run. I am looking forward to some breeding projects in the near future.

Macncheesehaze · Nov 17, 2020

Budzbuddha said:
Creating S1 autos :

I take 2 seeds ( autos same strain ) , grow in solo cups . Around week 3/4 ( about 5 nodes + or - ) I mark stalk at halfway point of height
with marker. Below that line , I begin to spray mist CS / STS at lower nodes . I begin slightly ahead of natural time for it to show sex ( first pistils ) .... ( which shows plant is moving to next stage ) .... after about 10 days of application ( twice a day ) , nuts will form.

I stop spraying once “ lady nuts “ form ... and let plant continue to grow. Remember, top area of plant will flower , that is where the maturing female pollen below will be used. Once nuts are ready ( they grow fast ) , I carefully cut off those branches and either harvest pollen or when use a small plastic bag to cover cup and plant and shake to “ pollinate “.

Pistils of flowers will darken when successful, and can be improved by direct brushing flowers with same pollen.
Seeds take about 6 weeks to mature .... then you harvest seeds , toss the cup .

View attachment 4577483 View attachment 4577485 View attachment 4577482

Using 2 autos :

Grow 2 autos in solo cups , treat one with CS / STS making female nuts ( you can spray whole plant ) . That plant will be for pollen / nut making only and cannot be consumed. Use that pollen to pollinate the other flowering cup .... that entire cup will seed out.
Toss pollen plant cup .... grow other to mature the seeds .... Harvest seeds in about 6 weeks , toss that cup.

You have F1 seeds feminized .

View attachment 4577484 View attachment 4577485

I find S1 seeds a little more in variety In pheno so there is some good hunting from these.
F1 autos a bit more uniform.

Experiment.

I was about to post a new thread but then remembered this one existed. So I got my perpetual cycle is, well perpetual I now am gonna start breeding my auto seeds. I just re read this and have a question. If I take two auto fems of the same strain or even different (but still auto fem) and I self pollenate and use the reversed pollen on the others, will the offspring all be autos? Or do I need to backcross? I want to do strain#1x#1 strain#2x#2 and #1x#2

MrToad69 · Nov 17, 2020

Yes..Auto to auto whether feminized or reg pollen will give you all Autos

Macncheesehaze · Nov 17, 2020

MrToad69 said:
Yes..Auto to auto whether feminized or reg pollen will give you all Autos

Sick, definitely gonna do exactly @Budzbuddha’s method. Thanks for the info.

Humanrob · Dec 10, 2020

Budzbuddha said:
Creating S1 autos :

.... after about 10 days of application ( twice a day ) , nuts will form.

View attachment 4577483

Hey Budz, I know this is an older post but I have a question for you -- from the picture, it looks like you are using Tiresias Mist? If that's the case, the instructions I got with mine said to spray once a day for 21 days, you say twice a day for 10 days. I am using it on an auto, been spraying for 10 days so far at just once a day... hoping I didn't blow it. The instructions I have only make one reference to autos, saying 'start when the plant is 5" tall' -- very vague.

Budzbuddha · Dec 10, 2020

Humanrob said:
Hey Budz, I know this is an older post but I have a question for you -- from the picture, it looks like you are using Tiresias Mist? If that's the case, the instructions I got with mine said to spray once a day for 21 days, you say twice a day for 10 days. I am using it on an auto, been spraying for 10 days so far at just once a day... hoping I didn't blow it. The instructions I have only make one reference to autos, saying 'start when the plant is 5" tall' -- very vague.

No ... ran out awhile back ( kept sprayer ) liked the dark color to preserve solution i put in it. Silver mountain CS is in it.

Budzbuddha · Dec 10, 2020

Auto to auto runs i grow in separate solos , germed and growing . I begin to spray about a week or so BEFORE Day 35 ( ish ) - about 5 nodes in ( give or take depending on growth ) . Autos “ usually “ begin to move to sex / preflower at around that time. Then you can target either spraying one cup completely ( the female pollen maker ) and the other as the seed maker.

OR

Spray one as ( pollen maker ) and other plant transplanted for normal growth ( just pollenating lower bud sites for seeding ) with remaining bulk of plant flowering and seeding at sane time.

You can harvest the upper areas of plant ( when mature ) and harvest seeds below when they are done.

Budzbuddha · Dec 10, 2020

I tend to do simple cup to cup pollinating when only targeting seed making.

Easier , cleaner.

Once one cup makes pollen , i collect it and either use right away or store it. Then that cup is tossed.

Simple.

Humanrob · Dec 10, 2020

Budzbuddha said:
No ... ran out awhile back ( kept sprayer ) liked the dark color to preserve solution i put in it. Silver mountain CS is in it.

Thanks for the reply. My current run is a two part experiment, one being my first time feminizing an auto, the second part being attempting to go about the seed grow in the open without a tent. There is some evidence that autos can do this. For me at the moment, it's worth a shot.

Budzbuddha · Dec 10, 2020

Humanrob said:
Thanks for the reply. My current run is a two part experiment, one being my first time feminizing an auto, the second part being attempting to go about the seed grow in the open without a tent. There is some evidence that autos can do this. For me at the moment, it's worth a shot.

Please add into this thread with your experiments, both good and bad. All input is welcome.

Humanrob · Dec 11, 2020

Budzbuddha said:
Please add into this thread with your experiments, both good and bad. All input is welcome.

Thanks, will do.

You mention that you moved to Silver Mountain, did the Tiresias Mist work? Do you recall if you followed their directions and sprayed once a day for 21 days? I was concerned that the directions were focused towards photos, but did not have any reference for how to adapt them to autos.

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