Mormons

tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca said:
God doesn't punish us. it's kind of complicated. We were the hosts of heaven that shouted for joy when the plan of salvation was presented. We were there and fought on the side of God when Satan rebelled. We witnessed the birth of humanity. We were there. When we return to God's presence the veil that separates that previous existence and our mortal existence will be lifted. The true hell is us remembering all of ours sins and misdeeds in mortal life compared to our pre-mortal existence. Unless you have been saved you will be shut off from the presence of God. Not hell, just a lesser degree of salvation. As the Bible mentions there are three degrees of glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41. All degrees of glory are considered wonderful beyond our wildest imaginations but only the highest will be for those who have accepted Christ and lived an obedient life dedicated to Christ's teachings.
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Hey, Carne Seca! I'm just curious, does your avatar name translate to 'dry meat', or 'lean meat'?
 
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SoCaldrums

Active Member
Wow. What manner of forum has my man Wheezer sucked me into? ;-) Pot-smoking Mormons? Who knew. I live in a big LDS area. Great people. About as *good* as people get. I can't/won't say anything bad about any that I've met. However...it's not Christianity. Worship/believe what you want (or don't), but a *Christian* believes that Jesus is "the way, the truth and the life". They believe Jesus is the one and only God...and that they will never be like Him. You can't "earn" salvation by knocking on doors/etc. Salvation is a free gift that no one who ever walked this earth has ever been "good enough" to "earn".
The Bible is backed up by manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence. The BOM is not. At all. Joseph Smith took the lie of the serpent in the Garden of Eden ("ye shall become like god"), and turned it into a *good* thing. Man fell *up* according to him.

Carne Seca said:
I'm not sure what you mean. We just believe that our priesthood authority comes directly from Christ himself. First of all the title Mormon comes from the Book of Mormon. We don't call ourselves that. We refer to ourselves as LDS or Latter Day Saints. We are related directly to Christianity because our church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints not "The Mormon Church." We believe in the Bible just like any other Christian sect. We just have additional scriptures that back up and clarify the Bible.

Praying and fasting is always a great way to find spiritual answers. :)
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Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
SoCaldrums said:
Worship/believe what you want (or don't), but a *Christian* believes that Jesus is "the way, the truth and the life". They believe Jesus is the one and only God...and that they will never be like Him. You can't "earn" salvation by knocking on doors/etc. Salvation is a free gift that no one who ever walked this earth has ever been "good enough" to "earn".
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No we believe that Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Christ is the son of God. We don't believe in the trinity (which is not biblical). The Godhood is made up of three separate personages. The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. Separate in form but equal in purpose. We don't believe in the whole made up, God-is-like-an-egg trinity concept. Salvation is a free gift yes, but as the Bible states, works are necessary to maintain salvation. You don't get to be free from sin and then commit whatever sins you want to after that. You can fall from grace. Read your Bible. No one said anything about earning salvation but you have to do your part to maintain it. Faith without works is dead.. per Christ himself.

The "Bible" is compilation of copies of copies of copies of copies, etc., so on and so forth, ad nauseum. That's why we have so many different versions. The Book of Mormon was translated by plates revealed to Joseph Smith per an angel of God from the original source. (I'm going by doctrine here not by personal opinion. Don't kill the messenger). The LDS church believes the Bible has been corrupted and that many plain and precious parts had been removed either by accident or by design (this is backed up by just about every credible theologian on earth). The Book of Mormon was revealed in this last dispensation to help back up the Bible and clear up some misconceptions. Infant baptism being one.

You're incorrect in your comparison. The full quote is, "..and ye shall be as gods, knowing good from evil." They were in a state of innocence. When they "ate of the fruit" they became mortal and aware of right and wrong (according to the Bible). Satan and God were both right. Satan promised Godlike attributes and God promised death. Then it became possible for man to populate the earth. The difference in Mormon theology is that Eve made a conscious choice. She and Adam discussed it and knew that as long as they remained in the Garden of Eden, there would never be the race of men. Thus frustrating the Plan of Salvation. For them to obey the command to go forth and multiply it was necessary to become mortal. In Mormon belief Adam and Eve knew exactly what they were doing. God could not advise them either way because of the constraints of Free Agency. We don't believe in Original Sin. That's another catholic construct.
 
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SoCaldrums

Active Member
"The "Bible" is compilation of copies of copies of copies of copies, etc., so on and so forth, ad nauseum. That's why we have so many different versions." >>>

Do a study sometime on what the "copiers" did/how they worked. It was crazy tedious/meticulous work. And "accepted" current versions do not differ from the original in content. Why shouldn't there be an NIV when people today just don't talk in King James English?

The Book of Mormon was translated by plates revealed to Joseph Smith per an angel of God from the original source. (I'm going by doctrine here not by personal opinion. Don't kill the messenger).>>>

I believe that doctrine is ridiculous of course. JS was a conman, and there's zero proof of any of it.

The LDS church believes the Bible has been corrupted and that many plain and precious parts had been removed either by accident or by design (this is backed up by just about every credible theologian on earth).>>>

The *Bible* hasn't been corrupted. Biblical *teaching* has. By some. JS for example.

The Book of Mormon was revealed in this last dispensation to help back up the Bible and clear up some misconceptions. >>>

That's because 1/2 of it was lifted word-for-word from the KJV. The Bible never needed anyone's help.

Infant baptism being one. >>>

Explain. I see nothing in the bible that would warrant infant baptism. Not a Christian belief.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
You need to study more before you try apologetics. There are different versions of the Bible like the Greek Bible, Coptic Bible, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Some of them have the same books others don't. Some of them differ wildly on Christ's ministry. And yes they do differ from what you call the "original texts" which are actually copies of copies of copies, etc. You say the Book of Mormon has plagarized text and then turn around and say it's ridiculous? Which is it. And you're wrong of course. There are parallels in the two books but not word for word transcriptions. By the way, Joseph Smith was a poor farmer not a con man. The Bible has been corrupted despite your claim. Any credible theologian can tell you that. Infant baptism is a result of the concept of original sin that most Christian sects still adhere to. The Book of Mormon plainly states that it is a false practice.

This is a discussion on doctrine, not personal biases or prejudices. The OP asked questions about the doctrine and I'm answering them. If you wish to start an I-Hate-Mormons thread, go right ahead. I'm not interjecting my personal faith or beliefs into this thread. I'm just giving information. If your purpose is to flame the LDS faith then do it in another thread. Thanks.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
silasraven said:
just got done with a 3 mormons in house, invited them over to chat. im not sure what to think, ive always wanted to read the book talk to them figure out whats the deal. someone help me out i read some and the whole mormon religion almost implicates thats his church is the only one with the power of god. something doesnt feel right with these guys.
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It's Something about Jesus coming to America and chilling with the Indians
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca said:
it's little more complicated than that but... whatever.
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Is that part of it? I heard jesus showed up in America and was chilling with Indians and thats what the book of Mormon is about. Is that true? Was Jesus here before the Europeans- Columbis? I think so? Did the Mormons meet Jesus or just hear about him from Indians? I think the Mormons were heading out west and some dude tripped and had visions- Joseph Smith? Maybe God spoke to him? I don't think he met jesus but I don't know the whole story? I think he tripped and had a vision that told him which way to go and they did and found water- and started doing there thing and setteling down- Something said to have as many wives as you could to make more Mormons- Maybe "Go forth and multiply"? and then someone decided that wasn't cool because other people were hateing and they didn't want to get a bad rep- so there was an offical change- so the real old school Mormons said fuck that i'm leaving and taking my wives with me and they split, and the Church Of Mormon became more main stream and some of them got very rich- I don't know how? Maybe they sold salt? And now they have Mit Romeney as the richest cannidate to ever run for president. I wonder why Mormons all dress like there going to a meeting, with a tie and tucked in shirt knocking on doors- I respect them for doing that though, I think those dudes are out looking for wives, the old school Mormons I think kick you out if you don't get a wife because theres not enough wives to go around in there communitys. I would like to hear the story from someone who knows- and I wan't to know how accurate my description was, and what I messed up and the answers to my questions and any interesting stuff about Mormons or being Mormon.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
Is that part of it? I heard jesus showed up in America and was chilling with Indians and thats what the book of Mormon is about. Is that true? Was Jesus here before the Europeans- Columbis? I think so? Did the Mormons meet Jesus or just hear about him from Indians? I think the Mormons were heading out west and some dude tripped and had visions- Joseph Smith? Maybe God spoke to him? I don't think he met jesus but I don't know the whole story? I think he tripped and had a vision that told him which way to go and they did and found water- and started doing there thing and setteling down- Something said to have as many wives as you could to make more Mormons- Maybe "Go forth and multiply"? and then someone decided that wasn't cool because other people were hateing and they didn't want to get a bad rep- so there was an offical change- so the real old school Mormons said fuck that i'm leaving and taking my wives with me and they split, and the Church Of Mormon became more main stream and some of them got very rich- I don't know how? Maybe they sold salt? And now they have Mit Romeney as the richest cannidate to ever run for president. I wonder why Mormons all dress like there going to a meeting, with a tie and tucked in shirt knocking on doors- I respect them for doing that though, I think those dudes are out looking for wives, the old school Mormons I think kick you out if you don't get a wife because theres not enough wives to go around in there communitys. I would like to hear the story from someone who knows- and I wan't to know how accurate my description was, and what I messed up and the answers to my questions and any interesting stuff about Mormons or being Mormon.
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http://lds.org/plan/our-eternal-life?lang=eng
 
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SoCaldrums

Active Member
Carne Seca said:
You need to study more before you try apologetics. >>>

LOL. Ok. You go first.

There are different versions of the Bible like the Greek Bible, Coptic Bible, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Some of them have the same books others don't. Some of them differ wildly on Christ's ministry. >>>

Pick one and explain where. I'm talking *accepted* mainstream Christian Bibles. KJV, NKJV, NIV, Amplified/etc.

And yes they do differ from what you call the "original texts" which are actually copies of copies of copies, etc. >>>

The KJV doesn't. Again, do a search on exactly how meticulous the early translators were. It'll blow your mind.

You say the Book of Mormon has plagarized text and then turn around and say it's ridiculous? Which is it. >>>

It was in some parts. The rest were made up by a total con man.

By the way, Joseph Smith was a poor farmer not a con man. >>>

Riiight. Look...believe what you want. I didn't come here to denigrate your faith. However, it seemed like the OP was searching, and he should research this stuff himself before he ever got involved with the LDS. I'd suggest The God Makers or Kingdom of the Cults to start. The BOM has NO evidence to support it. None.

The Bible has been corrupted despite your claim. Any credible theologian can tell you that.>>>

Find one example. Use the KJV or the NIV, and give me ONE example.

Infant baptism is a result of the concept of original sin that most Christian sects still adhere to. The Book of Mormon plainly states that it is a false practice. <<<

Wrong again. It's a Catholic doctrine. I know of no Christians that believe it.

This is a discussion on doctrine, not personal biases or prejudices. The OP asked questions about the doctrine and I'm answering them. If you wish to start an I-Hate-Mormons thread, go right ahead. I'm not interjecting my personal faith or beliefs into this thread. I'm just giving information. If your purpose is to flame the LDS faith then do it in another thread. Thanks.
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>>>

Again, wasn't my intention. As I said, believe what you want. My only issue is calling it "Christianity". Other than that, I'd much rather get along than argue. I find it rather fascinating that a Mormon and a born-again Christian smoke pot!
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
SoCaldrums said:
>>>

Again, wasn't my intention. As I said, believe what you want. My only issue is calling it "Christianity". Other than that, I'd much rather get along than argue. I find it rather fascinating that a Mormon and a born-again Christian smoke pot!
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Why do you find that fascinating?
 
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SoCaldrums

Active Member
Well...you don't see a *lot* of evangelical tokers. (A subject I'd really like to talk about if it can be done without any name-calling/etc) And afaik, the LDS frowns on caffiene and alcohol, so I'd guess there's not a ton of LDS tokers either. However, I do know that stats show a higher degree of drug addictions in the LDS than elsewhere, but I just assumed we were talking legal pills/etc.
Hepheastus420 said:
Why do you find that fascinating?
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