Mutated leaves under LED lights?

Hi guys,
So first post. I've got an issue and it seems pretty bizarre.

So I've taken a crack at some LED's and Auto's.

They're well set into flowering in soil. The newer top growth is severely shriveled and in some cases mutated to the point of growing buds on the leaves. I am using LED lights. They're a custom build, adapted from saltwater aquarium systems. They didn't do too well in, they grew too much green stuff in the tank .

The lights are warm, but that's the heatsinks. I can hold my hand directly under the lights without getting burned. I also have a fan oscillating on the grow.

Some of the larger fan leaves near the top are showing some deformation as well. It's usually contained to the outer parts of the leaf. The buds and small sugar leaves are getting completely torn up though. I have been looking on the net, but I haven't found this sort of issue.

I tested the Ph, N, P and K of the soil. Possibly a touch low on P. But Ph was neutral and Nitrogen and Potassium where abundant.

The lights are 6-18" from the tops of the plants. All plants seem to be showing these issues. There are 2 colors of LED's in the lights. They're cree XR-E royal blue and XR-E cool white. Any ideas???

"XR-E royal blue and XR-E cool white"

Wrong color spectrum, u need red.

These are not mutaded leaves ..
These are leaves with severe light 'burns'...
( Way too much production of free radical roots ..
Membranes and other lipid (fatty acids ) constructions of cells are being destroyed .
Severe water loss ,also ,from elevated heat , produced by high energy photon conversion ...)

In other words ...
Too much of high energy wavelengths ...
So much that even leaves have grown budsites ....

Plants are being toasted ...

Adding red ,will counteract these effects ....
But do not expect any serious flowering with Blue & Red leds ....
A HPS is much better ,in that case ...

Believe> it < or not ...

....However, when photosynthesis was measured at different light intensities using red/blue LEDs,plants grown under HPS lamps had the highest photosynthesis.

Dude XR-Es are pretty dangerous. Don't look at those fuckers. You gotta dump those, or dim/mute them IMHO. Then get some reds in your setup. Offhand XR-E cool whites are probably fine for all the blue you need for flowering, but you may want to double check that with more people. But kill the XR-Es. Here's Cree ratings so you know. Maybe at a certain distance they're OK to use but I bet they are probably waaaay toooo close. It sounds like you have a coral setup btw. Good Luck.

Please do this 'test' .
Simple enough .
Place a Coke/Soda can under the lights .
Or a piece of plexiglass ,or a transparent plastic ...

If after 7-10 days under your light regime ,can dyes have faded somewhat
(compare with a new same can ..)
and/or plastic has yellowed / 'cracked' (tiny ones ) ..

Then this light is for corals /sub water vegetation ,only ...
(Still might be too much ... )
And by no means for green plants ....

Those blue leds possess pretty much of blue light hazard .
Be extremely careful.
Their blinding effect ,builds up 'painlessly' ....
And permanently,also ...

Wrong Spectrum, my man...

You want White and red, with a hint of blue (and or cool white). Looks to me like an Aquarium light....

: /

Don't mean to shit on your choice, but your light isn't going to grow much in the line of sweet, sweet ganja.

Guys thanks so much for the quick feedback!

I had begun reading through the forum and found some great threads. Stardust, great builds and informative links my man! Most of you that replied really have some great grows here.

I obviously have a bit more to read on the spectrum requirements and the do's and don'ts if you will. I had been told these lights "work great" and took it at face value. Hadn't done my homework yet.

Luckily, I have several less powerful lights with mixtures of red+whites in them that can be used to retrofit my larger blue+white's i'm using now. I have also raised the lights a good amount to get some more space between the tops of the plants. Any other pointers with em? I can't adjust power out, so simply dimming isn't an option (yet).

FranJan, I'll dig through cree's site a bit but what does "high risk" entail? Got a link to the parent page of that pic you posted up?

Thanks again guys, there really seems to be a great deal of knowledge here!

Check it out (PDF)
http://www.cree.com/xlamp_app_notes/led_eye_safety

stardustsailor said:

These are not mutaded leaves ..
These are leaves with severe light 'burns'...
( Way too much production of free radical roots ..
Membranes and other lipid (fatty acids ) constructions of cells are being destroyed .
Severe water loss ,also ,from elevated heat , produced by high energy photon conversion ...)

In other words ...
Too much of high energy wavelengths ...
So much that even leaves have grown budsites ....

Plants are being toasted ...

Adding red ,will counteract these effects ....
But do not expect any serious flowering with Blue & Red leds ....
A HPS is much better ,in that case ...

Believe> it < or not ...

....However, when photosynthesis was measured at different light intensities using red/blue LEDs,plants grown under HPS lamps had the highest photosynthesis.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this, I've seen dozens upon dozens of plant issues here...but this was a first.

Would adding 2700K CFL's address the issue as well?.

Sunbiz1 said:

Would adding 2700K CFL's address the issue as well?.

Click to expand...

It will help, but using it to supplement your LED is still less than ideal.

Switching to just CFL's right now might make them survive to crop.

Hi Guys,

So I have raised the lights a great deal. Taken out half of the lights and replaced with 2/3rds as many red+whites. It's the best I can do right now.
Here are some updated pics in natural light of the wrinkled fan leaf, and of a couple of the shorter, better looking plants.

Top of Fan Leaf


Back of Fan Leaf


Top of a nicer plant, showing mild leaf mutation


Mid Plant Bud Sites


Overall Plant Structure

Funky, start a thread in this forum, https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/, with a link and picture or two, to your thread here and see what answers you get. You're probably going to need more light, or more of the right light in your case. I'm not an auto guy but that plant looks light starved to me.

Good call, I'll throw a post over there.
Thanks Fran