My 11 x 400 watts lamps have nothing underneath!! kindly help...

blackmelo said:

tbh i hate coco. You are supposed to "wash" it before using it to remove any salts. Dirty business. Then I found it stays soggy far too long. Supposed to be great for retaining water, yep so is toilet paper. I think toilet paper might be better if it didn't decompose so fast lol.
Anyway gl mate. You'll have a hard time finding organic hydro nutes, that's the point of using coco, all hydroponic with none of the benefits.

ps coco needs a ph of around 5.8 so 8.3 was definetely locking out nutes and the effects took a week to show, showing faster under stronger lighting. They probably will recover but you haven't shown any pics to see the damage

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blackmelo said:

tbh i hate coco. You are supposed to "wash" it before using it to remove any salts. Dirty business. Then I found it stays soggy far too long. Supposed to be great for retaining water, yep so is toilet paper. I think toilet paper might be better if it didn't decompose so fast lol.
Anyway gl mate. You'll have a hard time finding organic hydro nutes, that's the point of using coco, all hydroponic with none of the benefits.

ps coco needs a ph of around 5.8 so 8.3 was definetely locking out nutes and the effects took a week to show, showing faster under stronger lighting. They probably will recover but you haven't shown any pics to see the damage

Click to expand...

speero78 said:

Hello guys hope all of you are floating smoothly J

This is the first time I use a forum of any sort. And I would really appreciate the help and support and your time. I have 2 issues that I would love to get an experienced opinion and guidance on.

- Plants are Amnesia Haze clones: been vegging for a while in 1 gal potting mix. And kept them small till I finish building there room. In addition to AK47, sour diesel. All under 400 watt MH.

- Need to save them because I have 11 x 400 watts MH and Sodium lamps waiting …with nothing underneath. i have been growing for years and i have never encountered a problem. the only variable in my grow is the COCO COIR i dont want to hate just yet...i love coco

First issue:

I am using coco coir for the first time. So I took my healthy clones that where in a soil mix and transplanted them in coco coir + some organic slow release NPK 10-0-4 only (no perlite or anything else)( didn’t know it was 10-0-4) also, at the time no PH nor TDS meter.

Anyway, the plants took few days and then they grew beautifully. Meanwhile I was building my setup. They were good.

Second reporting came and the room was ready. I transplanted in the same mix and moved them to higher intensity light (I think I should have eased them into it).
So 10 days later the plants are dying. All pale green and leaves curl, burn and die. And this is daily. The plants are still very light green, but dying day after day. It looking like a nitrogen Defiance, yet I know there is slow release inside the mix?

So I finally got the PH and TDS was still on the way. And did an immediate reading on the water I was giving and a run off.

Results:

Tap water PH 8.3! And 550ppmL

Run off: was 7.4PH

I flushed with PH 6.5 but didn’t register the runoff.

Been 1 week still now change and getting worse.

I didn’t water yet because the dam coco just dried and taking forever. (Thinking I should re pot them all and add perlite).

Is this what you call locking because of the High PH ?

Now I am using bottled water from now one. PH 7.4 and 150 ppm composition in mg/L: 33cal/16mag/sodium2.3/N1.5/K0.13/sulphates12/Iron<0.001/flourides0.10.

So with all this data, here are the questions:J

1. Why the first transplant was ok knowing that I was using the 8.3PH water? And second time all went to hell.

2. What should I do for this watering? Because this can make it or they are gone!!. But they have strong roots. So there hope. What PH I flush with ?

3. I don’t have many option for nutrients in my country and supplements. But I have the following that I just got today. What do I use? That’s the second issue J??


4. I also need your advice if it is possible to grow only using the organic products. I can’t find a good organic vegging NPK nutrients. So can u check the pictures and tell me what will be a good combination for vegging and blooming cycles. I know that nutes are nutes, I just need to know what to give and when? THANK YOU on this question because I know it’s a tough one.


5. Is there a proper way that I need to do to prepare coco coir before use? Because as it is, it’s not working at all? Any advice??


6. I keep seeing amino acid bottles with some nitrogen. How can I use these? And what do they help with or damage and can they be used as an NPK feed? Or with what combination of another NPK fertilizer, and in which cycle of the plant they can be used.


7. Please, which one of those products in the pictures I can use to soak the clones with or feed to help them root faster and be healthier?


Please ask any details that i have missed to help more in diagnosing and your valuable insight. i thank you so much in advance.

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6ixtynin9 said:

Problem #1 - Slow release fertilizers. Unlike soil, coco is inert and has no nutrients for the plant to uptake. ZERO. You need to use nutes that are readily available to plants. You're plants are dying, you need nutes now, not 1 month later when the slow release kicks in.

Problem #2 - Higher intensity lights = plants work harder to grow = needs more energy = higher feeding strength. Can cause light stressed/burn if light are too intense/close.

Problem #3 - pH way too high. Coco is considered hydro (passive hydro). Requires a pH of 5.5 - 6.0

Problem #4 - No mention of supplementing with CalMag. Coco has none so you'll need to add it in.

Flush with plain 5.5 pH'd water until runoff falls into range, 5.5 - 6.0 with 5.8 being ideal. Then water with a mild CalMag + N solution.

Coco, if in compressed blocks, needs to be expanded and washed. Some reputable manufacturers (i.e. Botanicare, etc.) with ready-to-use bagged coco, can be used right away. I've done so (Cocogro from Botanicare) with no problem whatsoever. Even when fully saturated with water, coco still holds up to 30% oxygen so you can't over water. I water everyday. Just make sure your your temp/environment are on point. Too hot/too cold combined with moist coco and bad environment, for an extended amount of time, can lead to root problem.

Amino Acid are great for plants. It helps with photosynthesis, chelate calcium, increase roots mass, up taking of nutes, increased metabolism, fight stress, and many other things. Plants produces its own amino's but adding more and making it readily available when yhe plant needs it, only benefits.

Coco is great (better than soil) if you know how to use it properly. Properly grown plants grow twice as fast in coco, compared to soil. More frequent watering/feeding = faster growth rate, can't do this in soil. I switched from soil to coco and has never looked back.

Click to expand...

blackmelo said:

tbh i hate coco. You are supposed to "wash" it before using it to remove any salts. Dirty business. Then I found it stays soggy far too long. Supposed to be great for retaining water, yep so is toilet paper. I think toilet paper might be better if it didn't decompose so fast lol.
Anyway gl mate. You'll have a hard time finding organic hydro nutes, that's the point of using coco, all hydroponic with none of the benefits.

ps coco needs a ph of around 5.8 so 8.3 was definetely locking out nutes and the effects took a week to show, showing faster under stronger lighting. They probably will recover but you haven't shown any pics to see the damage

Click to expand...

Cold$moke said:

I think.he was just telling the op that he was at a way high ph

He said 5.8

The op was at 8+ lol

Click to expand...

6ixtynin9 said:

Problem #1 - Slow release fertilizers. Unlike soil, coco is inert and has no nutrients for the plant to uptake. ZERO. You need to use nutes that are readily available to plants. You're plants are dying, you need nutes now, not 1 month later when the slow release kicks in.

Problem #2 - Higher intensity lights = plants work harder to grow = needs more energy = higher feeding strength. Can cause light stressed/burn if light are too intense/close.

Problem #3 - pH way too high. Coco is considered hydro (passive hydro). Requires a pH of 5.5 - 6.0

Problem #4 - No mention of supplementing with CalMag. Coco has none so you'll need to add it in.

Flush with plain 5.5 pH'd water until runoff falls into range, 5.5 - 6.0 with 5.8 being ideal. Then water with a mild CalMag + N solution.

Coco, if in compressed blocks, needs to be expanded and washed. Some reputable manufacturers (i.e. Botanicare, etc.) with ready-to-use bagged coco, can be used right away. I've done so (Cocogro from Botanicare) with no problem whatsoever. Even when fully saturated with water, coco still holds up to 30% oxygen so you can't over water. I water everyday. Just make sure your your temp/environment are on point. Too hot/too cold combined with moist coco and bad environment, for an extended amount of time, can lead to root problem.

Amino Acid are great for plants. It helps with photosynthesis, chelate calcium, increase roots mass, up taking of nutes, increased metabolism, fight stress, and many other things. Plants produces its own amino's but adding more and making it readily available when yhe plant needs it, only benefits.

Coco is great (better than soil) if you know how to use it properly. Properly grown plants grow twice as fast in coco, compared to soil. More frequent watering/feeding = faster growth rate, can't do this in soil. I switched from soil to coco and has never looked back.

Click to expand...

smokebros said:

I can't upvote this enough, this dude made some very good points.

Coco is inert, which means organic slow release nutrients aren't going to help you right now. Coco may look a lot like dirt, but it's not.

Honestly all you need as a good salt based fertilizer, some calmag and some bacteria...

You'll also need a PH pen and EC pen.

Kind of curious why you have 4K of lights setup but went in half-cocked with the coco & nutrients.. but I'm not here to cast judgement, just trying to help.

With coco you should water with nutrients every time you water. Your water PH should always be between 5.8 - 6.2. And you should always water enough to get some runoff with coco.

If I'm in veg and I'm using clean RO water, here's what my mix would be...

150PPM calmag (i.e. calimagic)
350PPM base nutrients (i.e. dyna grow foliage pro, canna coco A&B, megacrop, etc).
+ bacteria. I use Recharge but you can use great white, orca, and several others.

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