My aero theory

Greeenhat

Greeenhat

Active Member
Hi all. Been lurking on and off for a few years now, soaking in all the knowledge I can. I have a few grows under my belt with varying degrees of success. Been a long time and always solo. But I have a theory. I've noticed most LP aero setups fall into 2 major categories: an aquamist style, net pots/neoprene collar cut in the lid of a tote, mister/sprayer/mini sprinkler manifold in the root zone that also happens to be the rez. Or the second being an aero/NFT hybrid, normally with fence posts of pvc. My idea would be to take the former setup only use 2 totes, 1 for the root zone and drain it back to a separated rez. This, in theory, would keep roots from ever being suspended in liquid so more oxygen. Obviously still run sprayers on the appropriate regimen. The root zone could even have active exhaust to keep o2 flowing. The point of all this would be more o2 in the root zone while still giving water/nutes. Is this a practice I havent read about? Would it not a work for some reason I overlooked?
 
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A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
The amazon has a seperate reservoir, root chamber and lid. Its a basic low pressure system comprising 4 rotary sprinklers and a maxijet 1000 pump.
 
J

jronnn

Well-Known Member
Greeenhat said:
Hi all. Been lurking on and off for a few years now, soaking in all the knowledge I can. I have a few grows under my belt with varying degrees of success. Been a long time and always solo. But I have a theory. I've noticed most LP aero setups fall into 2 major categories: an aquamist style, net pots/neoprene collar cut in the lid of a tote, mister/sprayer/mini sprinkler manifold in the root zone that also happens to be the rez. Or the second being an aero/NFT hybrid, normally with fence posts of pvc. My idea would be to take the former setup only use 2 totes, 1 for the root zone and drain it back to a separated rez. This, in theory, would keep roots from ever being suspended in liquid so more oxygen. Obviously still run sprayers on the appropriate regimen. The root zone could even have active exhaust to keep o2 flowing. The point of all this would be more o2 in the root zone while still giving water/nutes. Is this a practice I havent read about? Would it not a work for some reason I overlooked?
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look up pirates cave on icmag i think thats what youre talking about. type "Super-Charge Yor Growing with Aeroponics" on google and its the first thing that pops up. he's does a complete tutorial on the build and and feeding and everything. he uses botanicare flood trays and suspends the netcups with a tray cover so its only the roots and pvc/mister in the flood tray and the res is a tote underneath the tray
 
J

jronnn

Well-Known Member
unless you're talking about something totally different and I'm too high to understand lol
 
Dumme

Dumme

Well-Known Member
Greeenhat said:
Hi all. Been lurking on and off for a few years now, soaking in all the knowledge I can. I have a few grows under my belt with varying degrees of success. Been a long time and always solo. But I have a theory. I've noticed most LP aero setups fall into 2 major categories: an aquamist style, net pots/neoprene collar cut in the lid of a tote, mister/sprayer/mini sprinkler manifold in the root zone that also happens to be the rez. Or the second being an aero/NFT hybrid, normally with fence posts of pvc. My idea would be to take the former setup only use 2 totes, 1 for the root zone and drain it back to a separated rez. This, in theory, would keep roots from ever being suspended in liquid so more oxygen. Obviously still run sprayers on the appropriate regimen. The root zone could even have active exhaust to keep o2 flowing. The point of all this would be more o2 in the root zone while still giving water/nutes. Is this a practice I havent read about? Would it not a work for some reason I overlooked?
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Fogponics style and high pressure fit somewhere in there? Not sure if my garden would fit in your 2 styles either.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
nxsov180db said:
I've built setups such as you describe, I built the root chamber out of plywood and lined the inside with plastic and had it drain into a large cooler that I used as a reservoir. I always thought about using some sort of very low cfm fan or even on of those oxygen generators to exchange the air in the root chamber but when I asked about it on here I was told that the roots will never deplete the oxygen inside the root chamber because a root chamber is never 100% sealed therefore that is apparently enough air exchange on its own.. I also was thinking of using a air pump inside of a freezer to help exchange air and also keep temps down inside the root chamber...
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I tried active airflow, you`ll find that even with a bare minimal flowrate it will dessicate the roots. I always used to build my chambers from rigid foam insulation board lined with poly but these days i use a radically different design for my HPA/AA root chambers that doesnt involve any insulation or poly.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Insulation works both ways, it can prevent heat escaping. A poly liner reduces the avenues available for air exchange and for heat to escape. In most well sealed hpa chamber designs, the fresh air typically enters passively via the drain and exits via the netpots. The flowrate is governed by the temperature difference, vent area and height difference, it doesnt equate to much but its important to have it.
If you use neoprene pucks you effectively seal the main exits and the heat naturally accumulates at the top of the chamber which isnt good. I build all my aero chambers along the same lines as an air pot so all but one surface (the top) is completely open to air exchange. A close weave waterproof fabric with an open area of 10-20% is enough to confine the mist and allow abundant air exchange. Other benefits include, 100% drainage as the entire floor area becomes a drain. Passive evaporative cooling as excess moisture evaporates from the fabric, Like an air pot, roots that make it to the chamber walls or floor are air pruned, causing the tips to die off. The plant responds by throwing out new branches back along the root.
After side by side testing the airpot design against a poly lined chamber made from rigid 2" PIR foil faced insulation board, i converted all my chambers.
 
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Glider

Glider

Member
Atomizer said:
Insulation works both ways, it can prevent heat escaping. A poly liner reduces the avenues available for air exchange and for heat to escape. In most well sealed hpa chamber designs, the fresh air typically enters passively via the drain and exits via the netpots. The flowrate is governed by the temperature difference, vent area and height difference, it doesnt equate to much but its important to have it.
If you use neoprene pucks you effectively seal the main exits and the heat naturally accumulates at the top of the chamber which isnt good. I build all my aero chambers along the same lines as an air pot so all but one surface (the top) is completely open to air exchange. A close weave waterproof fabric with an open area of 10-20% is enough to confine the mist and allow abundant air exchange. Other benefits include, 100% drainage as the entire floor area becomes a drain. Passive evaporative cooling as excess moisture evaporates from the fabric, Like an air pot, roots that make it to the chamber walls or floor are air pruned, causing the tips to die off. The plant responds by throwing out new branches back along the root.
After side by side testing the airpot design against a poly lined chamber made from rigid 2" PIR foil faced insulation board, i converted all my chambers.
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That completely makes sense. I am changing my design and going to try the an internal mix siphon paint sprayer. I know it's going to use a lot of air but we'll see what happens
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
If you run aero long enough you`ll discover all kinds of interesting problems that take you in new design directions. As a heads up. you`ll find one sprayer or nozzle will give you uneven coverage. Plant sites nearest to the nozzle will be reliant on dispersed or reflected mist, unlike the plant sites in the direct path or at the far end of the mist plume. The same goes for upper and lower roots depending how high the chamber is and where you mount the sprayer or nozzle.
 
S

SteelyX

Active Member
Atomizer said:
Insulation works both ways, it can prevent heat escaping. A poly liner reduces the avenues available for air exchange and for heat to escape. In most well sealed hpa chamber designs, the fresh air typically enters passively via the drain and exits via the netpots. The flowrate is governed by the temperature difference, vent area and height difference, it doesnt equate to much but its important to have it.
If you use neoprene pucks you effectively seal the main exits and the heat naturally accumulates at the top of the chamber which isnt good. I build all my aero chambers along the same lines as an air pot so all but one surface (the top) is completely open to air exchange. A close weave waterproof fabric with an open area of 10-20% is enough to confine the mist and allow abundant air exchange. Other benefits include, 100% drainage as the entire floor area becomes a drain. Passive evaporative cooling as excess moisture evaporates from the fabric, Like an air pot, roots that make it to the chamber walls or floor are air pruned, causing the tips to die off. The plant responds by throwing out new branches back along the root.
After side by side testing the airpot design against a poly lined chamber made from rigid 2" PIR foil faced insulation board, i converted all my chambers.
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I've been reading your posts and you are one sharp dude. I've changed the design of my system several times based on your posts. I am going to change the plastic tub growth chamber in favor of the breathable mesh. How do you make sure no light leaks in through the fabric? Do you use a second light-blocking layer? If so, how do you keep good airflow?

I am considering using this same system in an outdoor sunlight grow. Do you have any suggestions on blocking light and allowing airflow with sunlight?
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
The permeable fabric forming the chamber wall is black and the black and white poly (panda film) that forms the vertical "ducts" goes black side in (white side out). The B&W poly is stapled to 1" x 1" vertical pvc battons (electrical trunking) that extend slightly above and below the chamber. The battons provide a 1" gap between the fabric wall and the poly duct outer wall. Light can only enter the duct from the top and in order to reach the chamber interior it has to turn 90 degrees using 2 non reflective black surfaces and then penetrate the fabric . The fabric has much less open area than any mesh but if you look at some mesh at an acute angle it appears to be a solid sheet with no holes in it ;)
The best stuff to use for the chamber framing is greenhouse wiggle wire type extrusion, its designed to hold poly, insect screening, shadecloth etc very securely. It makes the job a lot easier and is widely available in the states.
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
After testing every kind of weed barrier, woven mesh, screen etc i could find, i discovered the best material for the job is permatron. Its used for trampoline jump mats, mega tough, waterproof, resistant to almost every chemical in the book and doesnt support biological growth. You can even clean it with a pressure washer. You can buy it off the roll or recycle sections from a damaged jump mat.
Its also ideal for making large suspended fabric raised beds, attach the fabric (uv resistant and handles 825psi of pressure) to the top of a sturdy 2x4 frame so it hangs down inside (like a hammock) and fill it with soil/compost. Works like a giant airpot.
 
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muleface

muleface

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
The permeable fabric forming the chamber wall is black and the black and white poly (panda film) that forms the vertical "ducts" goes black side in (white side out). The B&W poly is stapled to 1" x 1" vertical pvc battons (electrical trunking) that extend slightly above and below the chamber. The battons provide a 1" gap between the fabric wall and the poly duct outer wall. Light can only enter the duct from the top and in order to reach the chamber interior it has to turn 90 degrees using 2 non reflective black surfaces and then penetrate the fabric . The fabric has much less open area than any mesh but if you look at some mesh at an acute angle it appears to be a solid sheet with no holes in it ;)
The best stuff to use for the chamber framing is greenhouse wiggle wire type extrusion, its designed to hold poly, insect screening, shadecloth etc very securely. It makes the job a lot easier and is widely available in the states.
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do you happen to have picture of what you are talking about? I don't know what most of the material you are talking about is, so I am having trouble envisioning it.
 
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