My Current Grows Continues

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/05/8153459-irs-ruling-strikes-fear-in-medical-marijuana-industry

In a potentially crushing blow to the burgeoning medical marijuana industry, the IRS has ruled that dispensaries cannot deduct standard business expenses such as payroll, security or rent.

Harborside Health Center, one of the nation's largest medical marijuana dispensaries and considered a model for the industry, is on the hook for $2.5 million in taxes from 2007 and 2008. That is $2 million more than the Oakland, Calif.-based company paid for those tax years.

“I see only two outcomes here,” said Steve DeAngelo, director and chief executive of Harborside. “Either this IRS assessment has to change or we go out of business. There really isn’t a middle ground for us.”

DeAngelo says the ruling will likely be appealed. He has 90 days to respond to the ruling.

The IRS ruling is based on an obscure portion of the tax code -- section 280E -- passed into law by Congress in 1982, at the height of Reagan administration’s “war on drugs.” The law, originally targeted at drug kingpins and cartels, bans any tax deductions related to "trafficking in controlled substances."

Although 16 states and the District of Columbia have passed laws allowing medical use of marijuana, the federal government still considers it a Schedule I drug, the most restrictive category with the harshest penalties.

The Internal Revenue Service refused to comment on the specific case, but letters sent from Andrew Keyso, IRS deputy associate chief counsel, to some members of Congress spell out the official position:

“Section 280E of the Code disallows deductions incurred in the trade or business of trafficking in controlled substances that federal law or the law of any state in which the taxpayer conducts the business prohibits. For this purpose, the term “controlled substances” has the meaning provided in the Controlled Substances Act. Marijuana falls within the Controlled Substances Act.”

The news has spread rapidly through the cannabis community and is likely to have a chilling effect on businesses.




“We are all a bit nervous and frustrated,” said Ken Estes, owner of Patient To Patient Group Collective in San Jose, Calif. “We have tried to comply with every city, state and federal law. We ask for input from all the agencies. But we are still being punished for operating a legitimate business.”

Harborside, which celebrated its fifth anniversary Monday, serves 94,000 patients with 84 full-time employees and brings in about $22 million in annual revenue. According to DeAngelo, the center, set up as a not-for-profit business, pays about $1.1 million in taxes to the city of Oakland, $2 million to the state of California and $500,000 to the federal government.
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“We have no complaint about the taxes we pay," DeAngelo said. "We are doing our part. All we ask is that we be treated like any other business enterprise. To treat us like criminals is simply wrong. Drug kingpins and cartels don’t file taxes. We do. But no business, including ours, can survive if it is taxed on its gross revenue. The IRS is trying to tax us out of existence.”

Keith Stroup, legal counsel and founder of NORML, the nation’s largest marijuana advocacy group, says the IRS ruling is likely to stifle the quasi-legal industry and force people back onto the black market.

“You know, Al Capone was taken down by the IRS, not by the FBI or the police. And I can assure you that Steve DeAngelo is no Al Capone,” Stroup said.

Stroup believes the move also could make it more difficult for the medical marijuana industry to capture significant capital investment. Medical marijuana is now a $1.7 billion market, according to a report released this year by See Change Strategy, an independent financial analysis firm that specializes in new and unique markets. The figure represents estimated sales of marijuana through dispensaries in states with medical marijuana laws.

Although the IRS declined comment, Stoup says NORML has received e-mails from other dispensaries that are currently being audited and will likely receive similar rulings. “Harborside is one of the biggest, so that is why the IRS targeted them first,” Stroup said. “But there are other dispensaries that will suffer the same fate unless Congress acts.”

Some members of Congress have taken up the cause.

Reps. Pete Stark, D-Calif., Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Jared Polis, D-Colo., have introduced legislation to ensure the medical marijuana industry is treated like any other business.

Two Republican presidential candidates — Ron Paul and Gary Johnson — also support the legislation.

Stark’s bill, the Small Business Tax Equity Act, authorizes medical marijuana dispensaries to take the full range of business expense deductions.

“You’d think that a time of record budget deficits that the IRS would be happy that a legal business is doing the right thing and paying its taxes," Polis said. "Instead, the IRS seems intent on destroying a successful and legal business that creates jobs and strengthens our economy."

The confused legal situation is “an un-American loop of nonsense,” says Jerome Handley, a tax attorney in Oakland who has more than 100 clients in the medical marijuana industry. “My advice to my clients is simple: Document everything … and stay out of the spotlight.”

William Panzer, an Oakland tax attorney who helped author California’s medical marijuana law, Proposition 215, also successfully fought the IRS in a similar case in 2007.
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In that case, U.S. Tax Court Judge David Laro declared that Californians Helping to Alleviate Medical Problems (CHAMP), a medical marijuana provider, could deduct the majority of employee costs as caregiving expenses. The IRS sought $426,000 in back taxes and penalties, but CHAMP ended up paying a tax assessment of less than $5,000.

“This law is not about protecting citizens from criminals. It is a concerted effort by the federal government to crack down on a legitimate business,” Panzer said.

DeAngelo points out the apparent craziness of the law. “The IRS allows me to deduct my cost of purchasing cannabis, which is the controlled substance they say is illegal. But I can’t deduct my payroll or my rent? That, clearly, defies logic and common sense.

"Besides," DeAngelo added, "have you ever heard of a drug trafficker that actually files a tax return? Me neither."


22 million in revenue and they cant find 2million to keep their doors open? sounds funny to me.
This is exactly how I figured the feds would handle this situation eventually. Ron Paul 2012.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
So, this means higher prices right??
They're just digging a hole for themselves. They should just start outlawing it in the medicinal states so we can go all out with this shit and see what happens. Everything they do just makes more and more people mad. They'll cross the line on purpose or on accident, whatever. But they will cross it, they are so close. And there is no money in the Governments bank. Like they're not gonna fix it by taxing US more for our weed, their just making it worse for themselves and making people mad.
 
it dosent really mean anything. This center will pay the extra taxes because of 2 reasons.

1. they have the money to spare, with 22 million in revenue they wont miss 2 million to get the IRS off their back.
2. If they are all about the customer, they wont let almost 100k of customers go away.

Remember this is all about money. The De Angelo guy wants his cake and now the IRS wants a piece as well.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
I'm sure they don't all care about us enough to not charge us for their new charges. Here in Colorado they'll buy a pound off of someone for 1000 or less sometimes I've heard, then turn around and sell it $40-50 an eighth.
 
thats why my old stuff went for free, I didnt like hearing the sob stories and the other bullshit, just tell me what you need and it made its way into their hands somehow.
Its all greed and that is what will doom this movement...GREED
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
That's a legit way to do it.
And yes, agreed. Greed is going to keep us apart, and we have to work together for it to work.
 
thats where i have a hard time is with the word, together. I was in a group that was working together, went to a meeting and it was a big smoke fest and no real agenda just a place to smoke with other people. fine if thats what ya do then cool, but dont disguise it as a meeting to work together. Not you Fin as a person but as a movement, ya know?
Perception is reality.

In my dream i cut down one of my Konway Kartels and its drying and thru another into 12/12 under CFL's and I still have 3-4 plants about 4 weeks from harvest, my first real perpetual grow has become reality.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
I agree there completely. Like Woodstock What the fuck was that? It was just a big concert that allowed industries to see just how profitable the "Hippie trend" idea was. It didn't really get anything done. Say they had taken that group, stormed the white house, and had them sign weeds freedom from the government over. But instead they just huddled around their little stage. I mean it was a great thing to have that movement and bring those people together there. But what came of it?? MORE laws?

And I when to a patient "Meet and greet" and me and the bouncer were the only people greeting ANYONE. Fucking don't make me walk up to you and ask you if you want a hit for us to meet. We all have red cards, let's fuckin pass some shit around and meet each other that way. But that's not EVEN what they were trying to do. I ended up barely meeting anyone. I mean it was only $5 so I'm gonna go back with something to pass out to meet people. But you should be able to meet everyone without having to give them free shit, at a "Patient Meet and Greet"
 
the clubs I went to, if you didnt have something to pass you were shunned and left in the cold. I would take exception to answering the door and rejecting the one person that had NO idea of where to start, "Sorry this is for members only." WTF? help that one person get his card and they are a member and they will bring friends to the mix.
O well, its better this way of just me helping who and when I can.
I had a saying in High School, Ill help who I can, with what I can, when I can. :-)
time to watch the tigers.
 
er is zoveel dat ik wil en moet met u te delen, een leven is niet genoeg
Ik had 6 jaar miserabele de hel mee te maken nadat je, niemand ten opzichte van
Ik heb altijd gedroomd van dit moment te weten zou komen
Het cant be hetzelfde, te veel is verleden leven veranderd en gegroeid
Ik heb veel dromen ervan is hetzelfde, maar we weten dat dosent schijn van kans
ik wil delen en te delen met u mijn leven, ons leven
Ik kijk uit naar de dag dat we samen kunnen worden en wissen van de dag namen we afscheid
 
My big computer is fucked so this is my writing in my book so pay no attention to this RIU.

now i really found her. i know it in my soul, this one is her and its pretty scary. I am missing something for long time to complete my life.
that was on her message board that, well its hard to explain unless you have traveled international and lived. what if she is meaning me with that note? and what if she isnt meaning me :-) Suicide Note pArt II is on, fuck that song kicks ass.



WOW, i confirmed it with a mutual friend in Iceland/FInland somewhere colder than we are (mi) so now its a waiting game, thats hwy i wroote that stuff up there, my laptop dosent have foreign language capabilities on it so it shows al jumbled but it sees dutch, lol. anyway digging the last of the popcorn buds and gponna have a good saturday with just us and the football game.
what if she has felt everything tht i have for the past 20+ years. i know it cant be like it was back then i knwo nothing wil ever be the same but its nice to imagine running into someone that you shared so much with over a really short poeriod of time. wow this is really interesting aznd i am happy with thinking about it and it kinda makes me happyto know that even if she dosent mean me, it makles me happy thkning that i an catch up on someone that i lost contact with.
there are 2 people in ym life that just dropped out so fast it wasnt fair to me cause they didnt give me a chance. she is one adn deb in wisconsin is the other. her last line to me in a letter was that her mother had died from stomach cancer and they said the inside of her stomach looked like a tomato shrown against a wall. "Everything that was important to me has changed and I dont what to do." that was it and she was gone.
They flood gates of memories are coming in full tide since japan is back somewhere out there but i am now 6 months behind her and with a direction. the smells and the visions ahve returned, i remember everything and if i see a tree that is blowing that certain way iot brings me back where i saw that certain path, its weird but its vertigo on steroids.
 
I put the hermie in the food chopper and threw out branches and put all that into a sifter and this is what i have left :-)




these are the new KK with a touch of lemon (i hope). I was going to throw the pictures on the regular threads and start asking, how do they look? what are the yields? whats the strain? lol
100% roots organic soil and no nutes through the entire cycle. I plan on a month or two of veg, I am going to be going thru a long dry spell and that sux but these I think I can get them to be 2-3 feet before I start them 12.12 with some LST and topping of course.

 
these are plots of 10-15 seeds, once they start growing and I can start to see the good from the bad, thats when I start to cull them out and let the strongest ones survive, thats why i plant them like that all in a bunch, most of these wont make it another month
 

hammer6913

Well-Known Member
hey joc. the day we went through the tunnel it was rainin and windy and just plasin shitty. but we made the ride. am heading to boyne saturday for a soldiers funeral.. if ya got time we can meet and greet. much better than stingy club members,. if interested in some gear send me an im and llet cha no what i got .
 
i have switched my lights to 18/6 from 24/o. mainly to its age, it is 1 week+ so now for the real growing to begin and for the roots to do what they do at night :-)
expecting great things with Roots Organic and water
 

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
I'm a big fan of the Roots Organic soil. That's what I use for the base in my super soil :D Looking good, hope they take off for ya!
 
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