My Current set up: journal?

Now to show how these two strains normally compare I took a picture of one widow and one crystal plant at 12 weeks of flowering. And the cola of each plant. This is the first harvest from plants that have been under t-5's for eight weeks. The next picture show a plant from table 2, four weeks of flowering compared to the 12 week flowering plant. You will notice the four week flowering plant is already taller. That is because I left it in veg longer than I usually would, while I got thing rolling. The close up show its clearly budding and it does have 8 weeks to go so I'm hoping for a nice harvest from that group. I'm also hoping it is the last group I have under the 400 watt hps.Turn the page. VV

What I am attempting to show in these picture is the difference in light penetration between the 400 watt hps and the 440watt t-5's. Not sure if my camera is good enough to show the difference.
I took my EC reading before flooding with the following results.
The mother table is at EC 1.8. My target is 1.8 to 2.0 so this one is right on.
Table 1, clones is at EC 1.4 to 1.6. This is because I drop the EC by adding extra water when I get ready to put them in flowering. This lowers the nitrogen content a little and nitrogen blocks early root development. I haven't quite decided if I'm going to keep mothers or just take clones when I get ready to put them into flowering. I am leaning towards doing that. I want to start some blueberry so I my just let the e mothers pass into flowering to clear a spot for them.
Table 2 is ECof 2.0 to 2.2 and don three gallons of ro water. Topped it off and its now at 2.0
Table 3 is at EC 2.0 to 2.2 and down about 2 gallons. Topped it off and its at 2.0.
Table 3, 12 weeks flowering and soon to be harvested was at EC 1.6 to 1.8 and down almost three gallons of water, topped it off and added 6 oz of Ionic Bloom. Brought it to EC 2.0. Then added 4oz of Ionic Boost, Use twice a week in the last four weeks of flowering.
We had a heatwave compared to normal temperature in Michigan with extremly high Relative humidity in late September and early October. I couldn't quite swing the dehumidifier or air condiotioner this year and even with my ventilation the RH during the day was as high as 70% which I'm sure had an effect the yeild I will get from these plants.
Now we will have the opposite problem. We will have to heat the grow room and add humidity. I was able get the humidifier last year and you have seen my sexy heater. If you don't think it can be sexy you haven't been in my grow room when the fireplace is burning, the lights are out. with the air pumps and fans making it sound more like a water fall then a grow room. The smell of fresh marijuana in the air, now that is sexy.
Thanx all for listening, GK a special thanx for the stem comparison idea, hope it shows up. VV

so VV your saying i can toss my 2 600 hps and use my t5s and achieve the same result?

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No, I'm saying sell them to someone at a good price, thats what I did with 2 of my 400watt hps light. Use the t-5's and achieve the same result, A more even grow as well, because the light is spread out more and less heat issues.

in flower as my 600hps will? i also grow orchids for flower shops and use the t5s for this
i use a filter on them to reduce the light output but never thought of using them to flower my w widow u think it will work?

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Not only do I think so I intend to prove it, kinda. The kinda is that I think I have gotten a little better at growing and I know I am using more additives then I was before. So we will have to make mental adjustments because of the enhancements that don't have anything to do with the change in lights. In addition I converted all my tables to flood and drain instead of drip and I think that is giving me better results as well. I know its easier for me to work with.
I'm not going to go backwards to prove a point, I don't have stock in any light company. Mines all in Vic's work shop. I have to say I love it here. I am always open to visitors from rollitup if I feel comfortble with the person asking to visit. A couple of folks have. They think I should be proud of it, and I am. I love you man and Butterfly kisses was always one of my favorite songs. I uhh... didnt have any girls, I do like the song VV

where did you get yours btw?

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I believe in doing business, as much as is economical with the local Hydro Shop. Mine does have a website, has been in business in that location since 1983 which is impressive.
It should cost $340.00 or less out he door with bulbs included, 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. If there is not a local source then by all means contact www.superiorgrowers.com They have always given me excellent advice.

and also, if i have pretty much 24" in closet depth will i be able to squeeze in two four bulb setups?

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Sorry sometimes my sarcasm misses and I don't make myself clear. If you are talking about mounting them on the sides in addition to the 8 tube at the top then I didn't explain it very well. I was actually kind off trying to drive a point home. I have been saying the t-5 will work as good as the 600 watt hids and some folks just can't believe you can drop your electric use and get the same results. I was trying to be funny and tell them if they just had to have a higher electric bill to be happy they could add more t-5's to get closer to the same electric expense as the 600 watt hid. Now they would be able to see if there is a difference 600watt to 600watt instead of comparing it to my little 440 watt t-5. One person even tried to point out a better grow with a 1000watt hid. So I was really just trying to drive a point home not suggest you would need more than that one fixture for you closet. Remember I have that fixture over 20 plants. You can't put 20 mature plants in that closet. You will have plenty off light. And to start with you can just light 1/2 the fixture. Clones or seedling won't be big enough to need all 8 bulbs to start with. To give you an idea you could check out my DIY clone stand. There are 16 or so clones getting ready for the second transplant soon. Before that they were all in one tray, so you can see they dont take much space.

how much should this rig cost? so i dont get ripped off.

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$340.00 depending on your states sales tax rate ours is 6%. If you have to pay shipping that would probably add about $30.00 to the price. And most of the hanging hardware is already there. Couple small lengths of chain and eye hooks secured at least an inch deep into solid wood, a couple 'S' hooks for raising and lowering it. Plug it in and go. No separate ballast, etc. VV

If I knew how to qoute multiple posts I would thank you all individually for the kind comments. And if I knew how I would link you to the other threads instead of making you look for them. I don't know how. Please accept my thanx to everyone on rollitup that has helped me through this year. It has been a blast for this old man. Thank you all. VV

ok guys look at it this way, i've already posted this subject before don't know where it went.

a t5 light can cover this much area ==================
a 600 watt has to be at a distance and can only cover this much because its high and reflective material works like this /\

t5 are definitely a +++++ Plus from what i've read from NGW catalog if you will please pick one up is that the t5 puts out the most "useful" light comparing to wattage that other lighting source uses.

There is that picture worth a thousnd words. Thanx waffle. VV

All I can say is WOW! Obvously I need to upgrade my lights, but here where I live its alot easier said than done. But here is a site where I think I may have found T5 4' 8 tube for a good price. Unless the $340 setup includes the bulbs. T5 Fluorescent Fixtures

I am completely sold on these T5 fixtures. I don't think i would bother with hps or mh bulbs at all. Thank you VV for enlightening me!! - pun intended

I have one question for you. do you have seperate rooms for vegetation and flowering? you need 18 hours in one, and 12 hours of light in the other, right??


Great set-up, by the way!

those are some heavy claims VV... what's your veg' time, and how much do you yield per plant?

Thanks in advance.

do you use soil VV?

skunkushybrid said:

how much do you yield per plant?

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I would like to know this too.

those are some heavy claims VV... what's your veg' time, and how much do you yield per plant?

Thanks in advance.
Folks skunk is one of my original buddy list. I always checked when I saw he had posted. He is a veteran grower.
If you are asking the length of vegging like number of days, I don't know yet. These plants all have born on dates, and I will post pictures. Some of them were clones taken 9/22 kept under t-12's, some are clones taken 10/12 under those same floros. Now those are all under the T-5's and have been for a week. All of them seem to be at the same stage of development now and are starting to grow taller. The plan is to harvest table 4 this week. Then move these clones into flowering. I'm hoping to get the fourth t-5 before I move them.
If you are asking light cycle, I'm still following the old 18/6 school. The reason I do that is simple. I haven't gotten the cloning down successfully with larger clones so I let them veg for more days.
The yeild I get per plant is not good. That is the reason I am upgrading my lighting. That was my plan from day one. I would start with the (3)400watt all hps, then up grade to 600watt and keep 2 of the 400watt for mothers and clones. I knew I had enough room, enough height, and access to set up a good exhaust system that I wouldn't have to air cool the 400 watt lights. I would need to with the 600's. I acheived moderate success. My first large grow was 60 plants, ended up with 32 females, and a hermie, way back in the corner. With my 'great ventilation' I had a million seeds.
I was so confused abouit this cloning for sex thing I took a few but not enough.
I had gone on vacation and had a friend watching the op. Came back to 100temps, heater cranked up, spider mites so bad you could see the webs and fugus gnats playing dive bomber. In addition, the clones I did have from known strains instead of bag seed, looked a little 'wilty' so my friend thought he must be overwatering, did not want to be wrong about it, so he didn't water them. I got stuck in the Bahama's for two extra days. Clones not watered, in 100 degree temps is not a good thing , trust me on that one.
I found out what the problem was with the heat. My heater control, is mounted on the back, outside temperature had dropped to single digits farenhiet and I had air leaking from the outside right on that control. During the day when my friend checked the room the outside temperature was warmer so less heat was called for and temps were in range. BUT that night...was killer.
I did end up with 4oz of white widow from 2 survivors so I took that as a good sign, they did have seeds so the outcome is not really that good.
You can imagine how I felt. I went on vacation, gone 9 days, 32 sensimillia plants gone, 60 clones and seedling reduced to 10. The only good thing was the $8974.28 my wife won in the Bahamas.
So I thought what the hell, I have the room and my premiums have sustained a lot of damage. I'll experiment with the hermie seeds, since I had 10 plants for three 20 station tables, why not. Got 17 oz off twenty plants, they hermied again. Know I know,know.
By that time I had made some progress. I had twenty or so flowering plants and not much else, couldn't afford to order more seeds, and continue making improvements so I gambled. I took clones of all of those flowering plants. I don't recommend doing this if your time is a factor. It took me longer to revert those clones back to vegging and get them to any kind of flowering height then it would have taken to order seeds and start over, about three months.
One of my heavy hitters had mentioned, actually all of them had mentioned, getting a 'feel' for your plants, they will tell you what the need. While I don't recommend doing this with 40 or so clones at once, if you want to "get the feel for your plants", take a clone from one that has been in flowering for about 2/3 of it's normal maturing time and revert it to vegging. You will have to look closely and I gaurantee you will talk to it. You will be buddies for at least two months. I don't know of another way to get that experience.
My last two harvest have been just over a pound from 20 plants, so not quite where I want to be, adequate for my needs. This next harvest is 8 week under the t-5's 15 plants, we will see. VV

here is a site where I think I may have found T5 4' 8 tube for a good price. Unless the $340 setup includes the bulbs. T5 Fluorescent Fixtures

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The $340.00 includes the bulbs and the tax. The $272.00 they show says including 6400k bulbs. Those would be blue spectrum. If they will mix red and blue for that price, it looks like a good buy. Check your local shop. They can be an invaluable source of imformation. And if the price is the same you don't have to pay shipping.
When you visit, if they have any kind of product catalog available showing the items the carry take it home with you. If its in the catalog and they don't normally stock it chances are they can get it for you, sent to their store, usually within a week, and you won't have to pay shipping. If it's a big item and your second time in the store they may ask you to pay for it when they order it so be prepared to do that ahead of time. Once you have established a relationship with them they will probably drop that requirement. VV

I am using rockwool right now. I am going back to the coco. The reason is the RO water and disposal of the used mediium. I have not reached my first goal yet, of an average 1oz per plant, or 1/2 gram per watt in the grow room. And I manicure like FDD. I don't hang them like that, I use my bud dryer, but i take every possible leaf off.
What needs to be done for the comparison is to have someone that has the room and the 600watthid's run thier journal and see what things we can match up. It could be any kind of grow, with what ever nutes and additives, they use etc. That is the only way you will get anything resembling a side by side comparison. I'll try to hold up my side, and report any improvments as they are added. VV

Ya if I had a local store I would go there but I live in a tourist town right in the middle of the bible belt in Arkansas. So im pretty much gonna have to order online, but here is another site that will mix bulbs on T5 Discount Hydroponics - Pioneer T5 Lighting

VictorVIcious said:

I am using rockwool right now. I am going back to the coco. The reason is the RO water and disposal of the used mediium. I have not reached my first goal yet, of an average 1oz per plant, or 1/2 gram per watt in the grow room. And I manicure like FDD. I don't hang them like that, I use my bud dryer, but i take every possible leaf off.
What needs to be done for the comparison is to have someone that has the room and the 600watthid's run thier journal and see what things we can match up. It could be any kind of grow, with what ever nutes and additives, they use etc. That is the only way you will get anything resembling a side by side comparison. I'll try to hold up my side, and report any improvments as they are added. VV

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thanks for the lengthy response, very informative. I just can't see the t5's even taking on a 400w hid. As you're growing in rockwool, you should be aiming for 2oz per plant... although i see where you're coming from with the 0.5g per watt... which is still quite an achievement.

So are you growing sog? No, can't be sog, 16oz from 20 plants would be a very good achievement in sog. maybe you're trying to grow too many plants at once. You should be able to get the same results from 10 plants in hydro. I know that a 12 day veg' (24/0) from clone is usually sufficient to guarantee 1.5 oz per plant in hydro. A 6 day veg will only get you 0.5 oz per plant, max. Although there's a lot of leeway to varying strain types. Certain strains are just not big producers.

I have too much going on atm, or i'd take you up on the challenge. I use 400w hps for flower. I have two lights in the flowering area, but they are used for plants at different stages of development. I've used fluoro's and just never liked them... each to their own I suppose.

Good luck with the rest of your grow, VV.

As you're growing in rockwool, you should be aiming for 2oz per plant... although i see where you're coming from with the 0.5g per watt... which is still quite an achievement.

So are you growing sog? No, can't be sog, 16oz from 20 plants would be a very good achievement in sog. maybe you're trying to grow too many plants at once.

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Well.. it is my thread so lengthy responses are allowed.
I guess that depends or your definition of a sog grow. 20 plants on a 32" by 4' table would certainly qualify where I come from.
That is a discussion I have been having with myself lately. Under the 400 watt lights I didn't feel comfortable with more than 12 plants, 1 per square foot. I think the right number may be 16. I don't have your experience so I'm still trying new things.

You should be able to get the same results from 10 plants in hydro. I know that a 12 day veg' (24/0) from clone is usually sufficient to guarantee 1.5 oz per plant in hydro. A 6 day veg will only get you 0.5 oz per plant, max. Although there's a lot of leeway to varying strain types. Certain strains are just not big producers.

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You may know this I don't. I can say mine are no where near ready to go to flowering at 12 days using the t-12's and t-8's I was using. Which is ok with my setup. I have adjusted for this wasted time in vegging by allowing more space to do it in. This is still a work in progress and the reason I finally posted one is that I think I can see the end of the tunnel. I think I know where I am and where I want to go and how I'm going to get there. whoops getting lengthy again.

I have too much going on atm, or i'd take you up on the challenge. I use 400w hps for flower. I have two lights in the flowering area, but they are used for plants at different stages of development. I've used fluoro's and just never liked them... each to their own I suppose.

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This has turned into one hasn't it. SO here is the challenge. Give me your best on cloning using rapid rooter, going into coco. Yep I'm going back to the coco. With the RO I don't have the salt problems and the coco seems to be more forgiving with fluctuations in ph. Tell us how you take your clones to have them ready to flower in 12 days. Unless something changes drastically, I can't see any reason I would need to, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to know how. Was that your post cloning for dummies? can't quite recall. I remember it being good just wasn't ready for it then.

Good luck with the rest of your grow, VV.

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Thanx. VV

Hey there VV. I actually already wrote a lengthy reply to this only for the page to crash, and i lost it all.

I wasn't being sarcastic when I mentioned your lengthy post. In fact i was appreciative that you took the time out to lay it all out like that. Damned internet, never accounts for tone.

I'll get onto the cloning in my next post, as that was the lengthy bit... and I don't want to lose it again.