My first grow

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
I actually think I do a pretty good job of that too--I still like to use my moisture meter as an added check, and every time I create a thin pencil-sized hole where the probe went in. So, its kind of like aerating it, yes? Maybe?

How would you propose I go about doing it more efficiently?
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I wouldn't be going sparingly on nutes at this time. Your leaves are showing all the signs of N, P, and K deficiencies. Less nutes is only accelerating the situation.

And it is true that deficiencies will allow mold to take hold more easily.
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
First and foremost, you won't ever see me using ph terms, measures, ETC. I don't "measure" anything. If my room "feels" humid, I up the fan/AC. If my soil "feels" moist, I don't water......feels dry, obviously, I water. LOL, sorry, I'm very oldschool. No meters, no timers, no thermometers to "measure" the heat.
I just LOVE to have my hands in the dirt. I tend to constantly "aerate." Whether it's by putting my hands in the dirt to mix around or placing a thin instrument (sterilized first) to aerate.
Your soil could very well be compacted. I never have that problem simply because I play with the dirt so much. I think it's wise to occassionally add things to your soil to loosen it up......perilite, vermiculite, sand. There are so many ways to play around with your soil....and your plant will thank you too.
Before I was even able to find my local hydro store, I hit up another local gardening shop and found one last bag of phosporous that was going to be discontinued. It had an extremely high level of it too....which is why they likely are discontinuing. I thought WTH........I'll just add a "pinch" to my soil. It certainly didn't hurt it. I read the advised measurements, but I just always go lower and build up from that.
See, if that plant was mine, I'd have already changed the pot once or twice by now. I am the queen of transplanting....NOTHING dies or is ever wounded under my care. I can take a newly sprouted seedling (and I do mean NEW) and handle it without the slightest damage.
OK, damn, I need to get some more sleep....I'm just rambling as usual.
Yeah......play with your soil. Mix it up, add some aerating agents. Don't worry so much about disturbing the root system. It's solid at this point.
Just reach in around the outer most part of your pot and pull out some of that old soil without disrupting the roots. Your roots shouldn't be exposed on the top layer anyway. In fact, if you find while doing so that it's a bit moist 2 or 3"down......let it sit like that for awhile prior to adding a fresh layer.....not under heavy lights---maybe in the tub with a few flourescents. Allow a fan for further circulation.
It may be that you have some sort of fungus. Changing out some of that soil, aerating and using just a drop of hydrogen peroxide with a very light watering will aid in fixing that.
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I wouldn't be going sparingly on nutes at this time. Your leaves are showing all the signs of N, P, and K deficiencies. Less nutes is only accelerating the situation.

And it is true that deficiencies will allow mold to take hold more easily.
I didn't really go sparingly, I just didn't use the Cha Ching twice in a row, that's all. I still used 4 tbsp big bloom and 3 tsp tiger bloom...

Do you think I should give them another round of nutrients and not just water when I feed tonight? If they are still deficient I don't want to make it worse...I've got no problem giving them a big drink of some 9-50-10 Cha Ching with all the other accouterments...

So lets discuss how they could have become deficient. 1) pH lockout. 2) not enough nutrients 3) salt buildup?

I may have experienced some of #1 to start all this, but I have stabilized to ~6.8, so that's probably not it. Unless it just never fully recovered from that situation, which seems false becasuse the buds are still growing...

#2 just seems crazy, because I've been giving recommended doses of big bloom and tiger bloom, along with molasses, high phosphorous guano and superthrive once in a while. The only way I think they could be deficient is because I wasn't the beastie blooms or cha ching until last week, both of which are super high in P and K.

#3 is possible, but I just flushed the plant when this started happening. I haven't really been administering nutrients every other feeding though, its been more like every feeding. But I should have flushed out all the salts, 1 or 2 consecutive feedings since won't create that much buildup, right?

Ugh, I don't know. I'm sure it has been my fault in some way (duh) but I'd like to narrow it down so I can improve on the next round and prevent this whole deal from happening again.

Thanks for you're help and input everyone:leaf:
 

Tatan

Well-Known Member
Babs, most of us are new at this.. and measuring things is a great help.

Jerry, I don´t know man... from what you say you have been feeding them plenty... I would not think that they are deficcient in nutrients.
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
So here we are...another day another problem. Sigh.

The buds are looking great on all of them, though the leaves are still not as nice. Not too much deterioration since yesterday, but its not like they are getting better. I gave a full-out watering today, and in the process discovered a colony of ants living in wide girl! I guess I only treated tall girl with cinnamon last time because she was the only one with the ants. Well, not this time. I covered them all with a thick layer, including tall girl, even though she didn't have ants. I think it will be effectively remove them though, as it worked almost instantly last time.

As they drained, I took a close gander at the runoff and what did I see, but some little white organisms swimming around. You were right Babs! Those motherfuckers laid eggs and have been happily living under the sand. I've only seen one or two flying around, but I guess there were more I wasn't seeing. So now I'm at a bit of a loss. I'll deal with it better tomorrow.

Anyway, here are some pics from today...

Tall girl


More tall girl...dying leaves and all


Lower healthy buds


Central buds...lots of orange


More lower buds


wide girl


her top


Close up


Shorty



her side buds...these things are massive


another side ubd


close up of main cola


That's it. They were fed Cha Ching, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, Molasses, and high P Indonesian bat guano (and some baking soda to raise pH). The pH of the concentration was 6.8, the pH of the runoff was between 7.0 and 7.1.

:leaf:
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
Babs, most of us are new at this.. and measuring things is a great help.

Jerry, I don´t know man... from what you say you have been feeding them plenty... I would not think that they are deficcient in nutrients.
Tatan, I never suggested that Jerry, or anyone for that matter "not" measure....only merely wanted to point out that I will never be one to suggest an "exact recommended dosage"......simply because I go by instinct.
I'm sticking with my diagnosis.......for the most part anyway.
It appears that the leaves rusting up began after flushing. After a flush (which requires that you use 3x the H20)........the plant is going to be significantly DAMP afterwards. Notice he began seeing the gnats? That's likely why.
My "theory" that his plant has a fungus problem is not off base.
Some people have more problems than others with gnats.....thus my obsession with the topic. You don't want that problem and it sounds like you don't have TIME for that problem either. It's not to say that I do either, but I work from home and am here the better part of the day to scrutinize it closely.
I recall Jerry you saying you use Foxfarms and Bat Guano.....a couple of other things as well?
I just want to point out that Fox Farms is a chemical fertilizer. While using organics, you can be a bit over zealous with your feeding schedule and get away with it. The same does not stand true with chemical fertilizers.
Right now, I only have the Fox Farms Grow Big for vegetative growth. Its directions for feeding (as I said, yes...I DO read the suggested feeding schedule, but again, I do NOT adhere to them.) With the Grow Big, they suggest 2-3 teaspoons per gallon every 2 weeks as a HEAVY feeding. I don't know how often Jerry you are feeding, but my guess is that you are attempting to pump just as much as you possibly can in hopes of getting some really fat bud......thus my statement that "less is often more."
While some may have insignificant problems with gnats, others lose their entire crop to them. I will say from experience (and do recall I am the transplant queen).........THAT after having transplanted, fighting the dirty specs, and then harvesting.......I've seen firsthand the damage they cause. My root ball e.g. was three times the size from transplant to when I harvested and pulled up the roots.......GNATS.......not spider mites. Gnats eat those roots---taking all that hard work of developing them with expensive nutes and tos'ing all of your hard work down the drain. Granted, you can still get some decent smoke (depending on when they invade and how you treat it), BUT your goal was to get the ultimate bud, yes?
No amount of nutrients you feed them now Jerry will improve those damaged fan leaves. I don't care what you feed them. Those damaged leaves are just that....damaged. Your goal is to not let them completely die quite this early in its budding stage. Keep your humidity low and increase your ventilation.
Just ask yourself this question...
Did you feed the heavy dosage as suggested on the bottle?....or the every watering? And then ask yourself just "How often was that watering?"
If it is in fact a fungus, those leaves will only serve to infect other leaves or promote bud rot. From what I see, those leaves are quickly dying.
For the first time in my life, I was prompted to recall the saying, "Let's get to the 'root of the problem.' And I say that is exactly the problem.....the roots. By removing that topsoil, you are addressing more than one problem and possibly correcting them all. Again, you can't 'fix' those contaminated leaves. You can only slow down their destructrion at this point.
I suggested areating, along with allowing the roots to dry out a bit--so to not cause root rot, get rid of possible larvae on the soil surface, AND loosen up the soil, which in itself, can cause so many of the problems associated with ph lockout.
Going back to my exercise analogy, same holds true for most things. When you begin taking certain meds, you introduce small doses, gradually increasing. You don't want to shock your body when attempting to stop taking that med.....you gradually decrease the dosage. SO many analogies I could make in life while comparing life to plants.....a plant is after all life. It's all about balance. Trust me, I have plenty of SHIT to balance in life too. :-)
 

ck2009

Member
hi mate i've taken on board what you have said and removed/sold the fans i brought for my room, then brought a a/c unit. on top of all this i have also changed my bulb set up as i was using 1 x 400 watt hps bulb now i gone for the cfl grades i brought 2 x 250 super grow bulbs which are not cheap at all lol these have cost me no less then £100 and with the a/c unit costing me another £99.99 i've not had much change from £200 lol (well all i can say is you live and learn from your own mistakes).

I've managed to get the temp down to roughly between 82 - 70 degrees do you think that 82 is still a lil high it only reaches this temp when hots days which at the moment i've only really had 2 nices days out of the past 7 days (good old english weather).

The plants under the new cfl bulbs seem to be going ok hard to tell at these early stages i started veg stage roughly 8 days ago all from good heatly cuttings over these 8 days they have prob about doubled in size to about 12 - 15 cm so with this being my first grow i really dont no if the cfl bulbs are slowing the veg stage down or not.

any help on this with would be great
 

Tatan

Well-Known Member
One thing i noticed from the pictures is that the small leaves around the buds seems to be doing well overall. Its mainly the fan leaves. So the question.. is if its gnats or a fungus, why isnt it attacking all leaves.
 

skeeterleg

New Member
LOOKIN Good there JG. Hope you leaf issue works out for ya but I wouldnt sweat it. The buds look fanfreakintastic!!!
 

Tatan

Well-Known Member
LOOKIN Good there JG. Hope you leaf issue works out for ya but I wouldnt sweat it. The buds look fanfreakintastic!!!

Omg.. just smoked a tester bud from my pink plant .. damn its nice.. so forgive if ive said this before... but anyway... I agree, I would be really bummed out if the buds were the ones looking messed up, but its the fan leaves... Your buds look very healthy. I would trade yellow fan leaves for buds like that any day...
Just look around other threads...

:joint::joint:
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't want to find out what would happen to the smaller leaves, but on a more positive note, his buds are looking gorgeous!
Let's just say that if Jerry needed to harvest early, he wouldn't be stuck with some shitty smoke. :weed:
A pink plant? That sounds TRIPPY. I'll have to check that one out later.

Seriously Jerry, you must have serious patience. Personally, I'd of been taking some lil tasters already.
I know, I know......a big no. (not really though---just depends on where you take it from and when)
I'm also queen of taking the tasters, as I refuse to buy the stuff and pay 100 bucks plus for a quarter......that's insane. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HAS NO SEEDS. The pride and joy of the seller-----PFFT.:cuss:
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone. I've got my last exam tomorrow, so I don't have much time, but I wanted to comment briefly.

Go back and look the last 2 or 3 updates...there are close ups of the buds showing it is not ONLY the fan leaves. For tall and wide girl, it is also attacking the leaves coming directly from the buds, which is why I'm a little concerned. Wide girl has tons of other inner foliage that appears unaffected, but the bud leaves are dying off.

I don't know if its gnats or fungus or what the hell the problem is. The gnats don't seem to be doing much currently, and I only see 1 or 2 flying around ever. But there were a LOT of this little white guys moving around in my runoff...I will def. need to keep up with the sand thing, as after a couple waterings it has become dislodged and probably allowed more little fuckers in the there. It seems like it will be a constant battle to keep them out, but I'm game.

Regarding transplanting/aerating the soil...I clearly see the benefits of doing this, but I am so close to being done I don't want to make things worse if I screw up. I will consider this though for the next round of plants...

I'm going to keep doing what I can to kill any and all bugs I can find and deal with it as it progresses. Probably gonna get some neem oil just to put around the surface of the soil anyway...it can't hurt right?

And Tatan, I expected nothing less from pinky. Just wait until you get that pink widow...man oh man I am jealous!:leaf:
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
Yea that's phucked up Jerry. Your gnats are not like my gnats. I've never had white things in my runoff. That has to be your problem. You've been feeding with plenty of food at the right ph but the leaves still deteriorate. It has to be something in your rootzone, whether it be the ants, gnats, larvae, bacteria, something is screwing with your roots. Probably a bit too late to do anything except try to kill whatever's in there but make sure you scrub down the growroom with neem oil or something before you move new plants in.
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the chart skeeter, that's nice to have just as a general reference.

Mared, you're right about scrubbing down, but I actually think I may to take it one step farther and completely seal off my grow space except from the front. I'm thinking just seal the space up as best I can so there is only one way in and one way out. My space is so tight that it will be a challenge, but it appears I need to do whatever I can to keep the bugs at bay. I'm definitely going to use some neem oil and even bleech and just scrub it down though. I also got some kitchen-safe "hot shot" spary or something that using natural pesticides...if its safe around the kitchen its probably good with the plants. I'm going to spray it around the periphery of the space with the plants in the other room. Gotta try anything...

With my current dilemma, I'm now considering some extreme action. What do you guys think of doing a bare-root transplant? I could get rid of all the contaminated soil and finish out my last 2 weeks in some fresh stuff...but it seems like a waste of soil as they are so close to being done. I think I'm going to get some more sand for now and just keep covering up the tops of the pots.

Back to studying for a while...my hps conversion bulb arrived safe and sound, along with my speaker grill cloth to keep my air-conditioning exhaust stealth. Can't have people getting suspicious...

I need to finish this exam so I can do some work on the room. Oh well, pics later...:leaf:
 

Tatan

Well-Known Member
I dont know Jerry about the bare root transplant... I mean you would be risking doing a lot of damage... after all you only have 2 weeks left and the buds are looking healthy...
 

Tatan

Well-Known Member
cinco de mayo = get drunk w/tequila and fire up a pile of mexican sativa

I always thought that may 5th was mexicos independence day... saw somewhere that its not.. its actually the date they beat the Freanch in a battle... damn thats pretty lame...
 
Top