My plants are dying, please help.

Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
This is not mine, and you are not helping by posting it and confusing people.
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Dont worry about it.
If you've treated them all the same, then they all suffered from the same fuck ups.

You've really just gotta reel things into the simplest form.
I understand wanting to reuse soil but reused soil that hasnt been "properly" amended tends to be prone to compaction and drainage issues. EWC are super heavy, plus you added compost.
So trying fix one issue, created another, and then another, and so on.
All the other additives (MG, MAG) fucked up the cation exchange and the additional waterings drowned your rootzone and left you locked up.

Seriously, just get a bag of good soilless mix like Pro Mix or Sunshine#4 and use a complete base nutrient from start to finish. Be mindful of watering frequency and use a decent water source.
Its really that simple.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
Tangerine_ said:
Dont worry about it.
If you've treated them all the same, then they all suffered from the same fuck ups.

You've really just gotta reel things into the simplest form.
I understand wanting to reuse soil but reused soil that hasnt been "properly" amended tends to be prone to compaction and drainage issues. EWC are super heavy, plus you added compost.
So trying fix one issue, created another, and then another, and so on.
All the other additives (MG, MAG) fucked up the cation exchange and the additional waterings drowned your rootzone and left you locked up.

Seriously, just get a bag of good soilless mix like Pro Mix or Sunshine#4 and use a complete base nutrient from start to finish. Be mindful of watering frequency and use a decent water source.
Its really that simple.
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I think you could be right. I know that a lot of people don't reuse soil, but I read a lot of articles where "expert" growers swore that ammended soil got better and better and never used new soil. And of course that farmers never used new soil, just amended soil. That all seemed reasonable to me, but maybe I will just have to start with new soil. I thought that flushing them really well like I did would help if there was any build up, but it just made things worse. Starting with new soil would at least remove that variable. Honestly, I don't know what else it could be. My friend grows in coco/pearlite and hardly any fertilizer and his plants usually look good. That might be it, but I am also going to see if the city's water has changed their pH just in case. Thank you for the suggestions.
 
BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
I appreciate your response. I let the soil dry out so the top 2 inches or so are dry between waterings, which turns out to be around every 3-4 days. I don't think they have ever been over watered until I flushed them out good a week ago, but that was in an effort to correct the problem, it did not cause the problem. I did not add any more pearlite, but I thought the soil was still nice and fluffy, and it still is. Water soaks right in nd any extra will come right out te bottom. I can't believe that airation is the issue, but I am glad you brought it up so I can metion what the soil is like. Is 50% compost too much? I don't know how to tell, but I have read that the compost breaks down slowly enough that it can't really cause any nutrient burning. Also, I cut down some plants yesterday, and I pulled out the root ball and rinsed it to see what it looked like and it looked very healthy in my opinion. Very white but just a little off white / yellow. Before someone says it, NO the roots were not yellow, they were very white and looked good on that plant.
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No worries!
That's good, fluffy is good.

Can't really ever have too much compost. But it must be properly composted and be of good quality with lots of brown material. (should be loose, spongey, airy and smell like fresh earth or humus)
You don't want any foul smells.

Besides aeration there's drainage. So you might be holding a lot of water. Thus leaving the potential for holding a lot of nutrient and dissolved solids too.
Every 3-4 days seems just ok to me, if watering properly. But honestly anything less than 18L or so, I'd be wanting to water more often than that.
If I couldn't, I'd be wanting more aeration in my pot the next-time.

If you're reusing soil for container planting, it's really important you add extra aeration every time. So any excess nutrients or dissolved solids can freely drain.

GL.
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
I think you could be right. I know that a lot of people don't reuse soil, but I read a lot of articles where "expert" growers swore that ammended soil got better and better and never used new soil. And of course that farmers never used new soil, just amended soil. That all seemed reasonable to me, but maybe I will just have to start with new soil. I thought that flushing them really well like I did would help if there was any build up, but it just made things worse. Starting with new soil would at least remove that variable. Honestly, I don't know what else it could be. My friend grows in coco/pearlite and hardly any fertilizer and his plants usually look good. That might be it, but I am also going to see if the city's water has changed their pH just in case. Thank you for the suggestions.
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I grew using Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) for a few years. You dont have be an expert, but there's definitely a learning curve. If thats your end goal, try reusing your soil outdoors until you get the hang of it. And find a local source for compost if you can. Or even KNF.
The Organics thread here has a wealth of info.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
BongerChonger said:
No worries!
That's good, fluffy is good.

Can't really ever have too much compost. But it must be properly composted and be of good quality with lots of brown material. (should be loose, spongey, airy and smell like fresh earth or humus)
You don't want any foul smells.

Besides aeration there's drainage. So you might be holding a lot of water. Thus leaving the potential for holding a lot of nutrient and dissolved solids too.
Every 3-4 days seems just ok to me, if watering properly. But honestly anything less than 18L or so, I'd be wanting to water more often than that.
If I couldn't, I'd be wanting more aeration in my pot the next-time.

If you're reusing soil for container planting, it's really important you add extra aeration every time. So any excess nutrients or dissolved solids can freely drain.

GL.
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Clearly I am not an expert, but the soil seems really good to me, just like you described. But I am about out of options that I know of, so I am going to replant one in new soil and see what happens. Most everything I did was in an attempt to correct an issue. I never gave them anything except a little fertilizer here and there until they looked sick. Then I used one of those leaf charts to help detect a deficiency. The magnesiun didn't help but it was not the cause because I had never used it before. I am using felt bags that drain easily and let some oxygen in, so I don't know what else to do right now but change the soil out. Going to try one and see what happens. BTW I do need to water more frequently during summer, but it's wintertime now and the soil stays moist for an extra day or so. Thanks for the help and not being a troll lol.
 
Rozgreenburn

Rozgreenburn

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
Clearly I am not an expert, but the soil seems really good to me, just like you described. But I am about out of options that I know of, so I am going to replant one in new soil and see what happens. Most everything I did was in an attempt to correct an issue. I never gave them anything except a little fertilizer here and there until they looked sick. Then I used one of those leaf charts to help detect a deficiency. The magnesiun didn't help but it was not the cause because I had never used it before. I am using felt bags that drain easily and let some oxygen in, so I don't know what else to do right now but change the soil out. Going to try one and see what happens. BTW I do need to water more frequently during summer, but it's wintertime now and the soil stays moist for an extra day or so. Thanks for the help and not being a troll lol.
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I have been shown that only organic soil is better after each grow. Chemical nutes will F up attempts to recharge it. If you aren't using organics for nutrients, you will get a salt build up. And each improper recharge just makes the medium that much more out of the proper range.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
bubba73 said:
Another way to troubleshoot is to do slurries , sample the soil and see where your ppm and ph is , what lockout is going on … seems you got a build up on those fertilizer and possibly burnt roots … who knows …replant and see …
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I am going to pick up some medium right now from a friend to repot one of them. The roots looked good on the one I pulled, but I will try the slurry and see what the solids are. Also will recheck the city's water pH and what the pH is in the slurry. How do I make the slurry properly to get a useful reading?
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
Rozgreenburn said:
I have been shown that only organic soil is better after each grow. Chemical nutes will F up attempts to recharge it. If you aren't using organics for nutrients, you will get a salt build up. And each improper recharge just makes the medium that much more out of the proper range.
Click to expand...
That could be happening, as I am not using organic nutrients (per Bugbee.), and it does seem that my grows have been on the decline since reusing soil. But then why do they look so much worse 6-7 days after flushing the soil out? Plus, I never gave them much fertilizer. My outside grows got lots more and grew great. Inside I gave a little but not a lot.
 
BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
but the soil seems really good to me, just like you described.
I never gave them anything except a little fertilizer here and there until they looked sick.
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Then if you're replanting 1 to see, add some drainage. Perlite will be great for that.
MisterBlack said:
Then I used one of those leaf charts to help detect a deficiency. The magnesiun didn't help but it was not the cause because I had never used it before.
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Honestly, you can just about throw those charts in the trash. They're misleading.
Basic NPK and mobile nutrient deficiencies are all you really need to know. Remember mobile nutrient deficiencies start from the bottom older leaves and progress upward.
Every other deficiency you see is 99% of the time actually lockout.
Why?
Environment. Especially so with soil.
As I said previously it's most oftentimes a case of inadequate aeration at the rootzone, causing these "deficiencies" we all see often.
MisterBlack said:
I never gave them anything except a little fertilizer here and there until they looked sick. . The magnesiun didn't help but it was not the cause because I had never used it before. I am using felt bags that drain easily and let some oxygen in.
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That's why I think adding drainage to your aeration will really help. Since you've been ferting often.
You don't want your soil holding too much of that stuff. You want it to properly drain.
MisterBlack said:
Going to try one and see what happens.
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Try 20% perlite or so. I'm positive you'll have an easier time. Especially when it comes to fert and watering frequency.
The roots will thank you.
 
Rozgreenburn

Rozgreenburn

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
That could be happening, as I am not using organic nutrients (per Bugbee.), and it does seem that my grows have been on the decline since reusing soil. But then why do they look so much worse 6-7 days after flushing the soil out? Plus, I never gave them much fertilizer. My outside grows got lots more and grew great. Inside I gave a little but not a lot.
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Another common issue is doing too much. If I make a correction while growing, I make 1 adjustment and wait1 week minimum before I change anything else. I went organic because it just seemed too wasteful to pitch my medium after a single grow. Do you keep a grow journal? It really helps to have information to confirm results.
 
BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
@MisterBlack

A very handy rule of thumb regarding organic gardening and fertilizing - "Nitrogen deficiency is the first sign of a healthy garden."

Meaning Nitrogen deficiency will most often be the first deficiency you should see, before deciding to add more fertilizer.
If another deficiency appears before Nitrogen, then chances are it's something else.
Most oftentimes it's something at the rootzone.

All these slurry tests for pH, finger pointing deficiencies, blaming watering habits etc. It's far too much tail chasing.
Example: pH/potential hydrogen is just an arbitrary number to me. The biggest clue is in it's name.
It's all referring to soil aeration.
Can't really ever emphasize enough, just how important aeration actually is.

Sorry for the ramble. Just remembered the rule of thumb and had to mention it.

Good luck.
Hope things turn around.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
Rozgreenburn said:
Another common issue is doing too much. If I make a correction while growing, I make 1 adjustment and wait1 week minimum before I change anything else. I went organic because it just seemed too wasteful to pitch my medium after a single grow. Do you keep a grow journal? It really helps to have information to confirm results.
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I have not kept a journal, but I did make one change at a time waiting a week or so in between. It has been disappointing to watch the decline over the weeks and not being able to discover the problem. Especially when I haven't changed my routine very much.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
BongerChonger said:
@MisterBlack

A very handy rule of thumb regarding organic gardening and fertilizing - "Nitrogen deficiency is the first sign of a healthy garden."

Meaning Nitrogen deficiency will most often be the first deficiency you should see, before deciding to add more fertilizer.
If another deficiency appears before Nitrogen, then chances are it's something else.
Most oftentimes it's something at the rootzone.

All these slurry tests for pH, finger pointing deficiencies, blaming watering habits etc. It's far too much tail chasing.
Example: pH/potential hydrogen is just an arbitrary number to me. The biggest clue is in it's name.
It's all referring to soil aeration.
Can't really ever emphasize enough, just how important aeration actually is.

Sorry for the ramble. Just remembered the rule of thumb and had to mention it.

Good luck.
Hope things turn around.
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You have submitted some great info, thank you. I have read lots of it before, but by the time I need it, I have forgotten. Good to see it again.
 
MisterBlack

MisterBlack

Active Member
For anyone interested, I repotted in the coco and pearlite my friend uses. The roots looked ok to me. I did not send the soil for analysis, but it looks, feels and smells fine. It was loose and airy and moist. no compaction, no obvious salts build up. I guess I will see if it recovers in the coco. I don't really care too much about any of these plants per se, as I have more than I could ever use and I give it away. In fact my friend tried to make me bring more home tonight, but I want to know what is wrong in my grow room so they will be healthy. I do have some plants I want to grow from seed and I want this problem identified and resolved before I start them.
 

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speedwell68

speedwell68

Well-Known Member
I haven't read the entire thread.

If you want success in weed growing the first thing you have to do is keep it simple. Cannabis is the same as those beans kids grow at school. What you need to do is get a basic enriched soil mix, I believe Fox Farms is very popular. It will have enough nutrients to support a plant for about a month. Then get yourself a simple one part fertiliser, for a long time I used a product called Tomorite, a simple seaweed based plant food.

Learn how to water. When you pot them feel the dry weight of the pot, then water them in well, then feel the wet weight of the pot, aim to keep them halfway between the two weights.
 
T

Toka416

Well-Known Member
Agree with these guys, keep it simple.. looks like overwater is your big issue to overcome. Lifting the pots to feel water weight is a good way to learn imo. Should feel significantly lighter before you want to water it.
 
farmerfischer

farmerfischer

Well-Known Member
MisterBlack said:
Ok, here are some pics of other photoperiod plants. The last pic is the same as the 3rd plant but a different angle. Does this help?
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Looks like lockout.. probably from overdoing on watering or to much nutrients.. purple stems and fading leaves smh.. did you by chance try adjusting the ph while flushing?
 
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