Need Design Input For Planned Indoor Farm 80 plants to start.
- Thread starter cool2burn
- Start date
The_Enthusiast
Active Member
Just check LED spectrum before going in such big investment, I'm still afraid that maybe only Phillips got it right with GreenPower LED TOPLIGHT - but expensive as shit - about 2100€ (4 pcs = 2050 uMol) vs 1000W DE HPS - about 800€ (all in one gavita -> 2100 uMol (minus reflector). But pros of LED are 780W vs 1055W total consumption and 4-5 year almost no maintenance I believe.
Yes it does break even at one point - but still I am little worried about spectrum of all LEDs...
Banana444
Well-Known Member
As far as that yield goes, and growing with leds, i am consistantly getting over a pound from a 4x4. I prefer 4 plants to a 4x4 and filling a scrog net before flipping to flower, under 9cxb3590s(dimmable)between 35-80watts each cob, with supplemental uv and royal blues for high noon and far red at lights out. The cob last to cxb3590 light i have put together have been the least expensive i have made, it used to cost me ~450$ to build a 4 cob light ~320watts....now switched to a 3 cob design with a single heatsink anf cooling fan, and they cost ~200$ for a 240w light.
cool2burn
Well-Known Member
Thanks this is very useful information. I think i will defiantly have to get a consultant maybe from a lighting company to come out and tells us what they think.
cool2burn
Well-Known Member
we also need calculate whether it is more profitable to do a few large plants of many smaller ones. I can grow 1 plant in that area and make a tree or plant 6 smaller ones. I might be thinking about it wrong i could split the 100x100 space into 3 sections fill them up with smaller plants and run 1 month veg 2 months flower.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
I know a guy who spent a shit ton of his startup cost on LED, over $120k. He regrets it immensely.
You should start with a tried and true, cheap startup cost like single ended HPS, and use your profit to purchase new equipment. That way, as you upgrade, you'll still have your old equipment to fall back upon as a backup just in case.
Just a thought...
You should start with a tried and true, cheap startup cost like single ended HPS, and use your profit to purchase new equipment. That way, as you upgrade, you'll still have your old equipment to fall back upon as a backup just in case.
Just a thought...
cool2burn
Well-Known Member
yea i just trying to decide if i want to grow like this
Or Like This
Im only showing these images to demonstrate the grow types im interested in. Im more concerned with if i grow monsters the bottom image or growing a shit ton of smaller guys the top image will yield more? Im also concerened if the difference between caring between only having around 80-100 compared to well over 500 plants in the same space
Or Like This
Im only showing these images to demonstrate the grow types im interested in. Im more concerned with if i grow monsters the bottom image or growing a shit ton of smaller guys the top image will yield more? Im also concerened if the difference between caring between only having around 80-100 compared to well over 500 plants in the same space
This is honestly bunch of horrible advice... ill make it simple for you. Do what is proven and dont try to rewrite anything...
Gavita light per 5x5 area... do this across as much space you have and can afford. Not in seperate rooms. Pick a large area 50x50 or to that extent, put a light per 5x5 covering giant area.
Now you have even light spectrum across a certain area. Whether you do 100s plant or 1 plant per light. You have a space with maximum light and temperature controlled. 1 plant under a gavita in 30gal with promix will do 3lb pretty consistant if you know growing a plant... obviouly you can do hydro or coco or whatever your comfortable with ,im just telling you what i know personally.
Remember you spending 250k UPFRONT. You will add to that very quick when you have people working for you. no, you will not be able to handle place that big alone. You have bills to pay also... dont play games expiramenting with leds and all solar right now.
Start your business and get to a positive flow of cash...THEN you TRY couple controlled plant grow woth leds. Trust me going commercial your going to ditch leds very quick. Been there and buds just dont add up. You want 3lb plants you need penetration below a canopy. Lights that supply to a foot or less of plant is garbage for commercial anyways.
Advice, hire a head grower. You dont need someone tell you lights or anything. You need a person to run your grow and they will help you setup a system which works. A perso. Who know growing comercially can and will give you a written estimate of what they can grow for you. Then you can do math and have a plan of how much youll make in a year at minimum numbers.
Hell, my girl wants move to florida. Hire me lol. Come to rhode island ill show you proven liscenced grow , 3lb plant per light which only allowed 48 flower plants by law, making over million in first year ONLY restricted to tha cause plant count.
Gavita light per 5x5 area... do this across as much space you have and can afford. Not in seperate rooms. Pick a large area 50x50 or to that extent, put a light per 5x5 covering giant area.
Now you have even light spectrum across a certain area. Whether you do 100s plant or 1 plant per light. You have a space with maximum light and temperature controlled. 1 plant under a gavita in 30gal with promix will do 3lb pretty consistant if you know growing a plant... obviouly you can do hydro or coco or whatever your comfortable with ,im just telling you what i know personally.
Remember you spending 250k UPFRONT. You will add to that very quick when you have people working for you. no, you will not be able to handle place that big alone. You have bills to pay also... dont play games expiramenting with leds and all solar right now.
Start your business and get to a positive flow of cash...THEN you TRY couple controlled plant grow woth leds. Trust me going commercial your going to ditch leds very quick. Been there and buds just dont add up. You want 3lb plants you need penetration below a canopy. Lights that supply to a foot or less of plant is garbage for commercial anyways.
Advice, hire a head grower. You dont need someone tell you lights or anything. You need a person to run your grow and they will help you setup a system which works. A perso. Who know growing comercially can and will give you a written estimate of what they can grow for you. Then you can do math and have a plan of how much youll make in a year at minimum numbers.
Hell, my girl wants move to florida. Hire me lol. Come to rhode island ill show you proven liscenced grow , 3lb plant per light which only allowed 48 flower plants by law, making over million in first year ONLY restricted to tha cause plant count.
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
10,000 Sf building. What is your square foot cost for bldg foundation, modular metal bldg, electrical, mechanical, lighting. I would imagine $300K is going to be real tight. Are utilities available on-site? Building costs could exceed $300K. Lighting at 20w/sf is 20kw, power at 10w/sf is 10kw, ac at 20w/sf is 20kw for a total of 50kw minimum main power at transformer. Figure 75% of space is oriented to bloom at 75,000 Sf at 50w/sf = 3750Kw in lighting fixtures bloom, 25,000 SF at 25w/sf = 625Kw in lighting veg fixtures. Flood & Drain equipment can be based on he same SF needs. Hope that helps. Need more money.
cool2burn
Well-Known Member
What i have priced so far is a 100x100 metal building 40k max maybe cheaper if steel is cheep slab 10k erecting metal structure 12k probably less i know people. electric connect 6k. Having well dug 2k RODI 4k real good system with storage Lights we are planning 80-100 5x5 areas we estimate lights in this quantity bought bulk to be about 500 each. I do believe a trip to china might reduce this cost dramatically. another 20-30k for pots medium and nutrients. Finally we need co2 and climate control another 20kmax
40k building
10k foundation
12k erecting
6k electric
2k well
4k rodi
40k-50k lights
20-30k other materials
20k climate and co2
-----------
Right here i am at 150-170k That well leaver us close to 100k left for the licensing and permits. Once we have everything built i doubt it will be hard to find investors to fund us if needed for a bit but i think we will be ok.
40k building
10k foundation
12k erecting
6k electric
2k well
4k rodi
40k-50k lights
20-30k other materials
20k climate and co2
-----------
Right here i am at 150-170k That well leaver us close to 100k left for the licensing and permits. Once we have everything built i doubt it will be hard to find investors to fund us if needed for a bit but i think we will be ok.
Tyleb173rd
Well-Known Member
Good luck sir.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
What will you be feeding these plants?
The_Enthusiast
Active Member
I had 3 "starts" with indoor growing on 3 different locations, (i have low voltage electrical (i don't think this exists anymore) high school diploma, almost bacc. economic and business and I was involved in family business from early teens (construction and orchard farming)).
And still, I missed few times with budget and under-dimensioned some things.
My suggestion, and it comes from experience and heart - try to do it "modular" if you know what I mean. Have at least 20% investion money left in your pocket for the first batch to come through.
There will be hidden costs, maybe fails with batches, maybe pests, bad horticultural practices....
I had about 80 different batches before moving to last location and still had few mishaps...
So if you go and blow 300K - have 100K in pocket over that.
And still, I missed few times with budget and under-dimensioned some things.
My suggestion, and it comes from experience and heart - try to do it "modular" if you know what I mean. Have at least 20% investion money left in your pocket for the first batch to come through.
There will be hidden costs, maybe fails with batches, maybe pests, bad horticultural practices....
I had about 80 different batches before moving to last location and still had few mishaps...
So if you go and blow 300K - have 100K in pocket over that.
Banana444
Well-Known Member
Oh yea and a word on working with family....that ussually turns into people showing up late, leaving early, lack of commitment. They will say they will help, but fact is when it comes down to work having to get done, they will make excuses and get out of doing this will little to no ability to make consequences or fire people, and you will get stuck doing the work or yields will suffer. It truely sucks working with family when it comes to running an efficient and profitable buisness.
Rooster802
Active Member
Just curious, why an indoor grow on this scale? Why is everyone going indoor? Its a disgusting waste of energy and resources, and the polar opposite of efficiency. Is it because of law you can't use greenhouses? Or just a field? And invest all that money saved on electric and lighting into a good security fence and system? The sun grows the best cannabis, and what we are talking about is commercial agricultural growth for medicine correct? I mean, I know cannabis in the US is still 99.9% a recreational product that only a few people take seriously as medicine, and today we have a shitload of stoners manipulating the medical community into subscribing them their favorite pastime. But the reality is this stuff is medicine, and the secret is out. It will be years, not decades, before cannabis use for medicine is mainstream because it works. I just don't understand why people are investing millions (or 100's of thousands in your case) into an indoor grow that will be obsolete before you cover your expenses. Marijuana is an agricultural crop, and should be grown the same way corn is grown, anything else is totally inefficient and unsustainable and will not be able to compete when the laws do change to allow for import and export. It seems very shortsighted to me. Personally, I envision a near future where you can get bottles of CBD at Walmart for $4.99, and high THC cannabis for smoking is going to be running around $25/oz or less... because in spite of 80 years of secret, outrageously expensive indoor and guerrilla growing due to unjust law, marijuana is just another vegetable and about as difficult to grow as it is any other garden vegetable (yes I know growing great marijuana is an art that can take decades to master, but so does growing prize winning tomatoes-any asshole can grow a shitty tomato, and any asshole can grow a shitty weed plant). I guess I would just be concerned that today what seems like a brilliant plan may cause you too lose everything because the guy field growing up the road can bring a finished product to the table at less than half your operating expenses and with very little start up costs or debt. Its only a matter of time before cannabis farmers are using combines to harvest weed and tobacco sheds to cure it in my mind, but then I could be wrong. Anyway, I wish you the best and hope whatever direction you do go in it is very rewarding and successful and brings you purpose and joy in your life.
Wish i could kike this post 1000x... this is sad but a FACT of life to be learned
Indoor is safe solid investment. There is no reason to have a loss crop indoors. When you do things on this scale you have employees and workload is split up. If you lose a crop its because your not ensuring your employees are doing their share of the work.
Also i wouldve agreed with your statement about it being to late to start up a year ago... i know someone who started growing in 4x4 tent. Learned his technique. Scaled it to a garage with 2- 8 light rooms with cheap ass hoods an ballasts. He was doing 2lb per hood in 4x4 area. Saved his money and found a financing partner. 2 years later spent 200k or so on a co-op to supply dispensaries. He made the contacts he needed to now have a commercial licence with state... went to colorado to an event and met investor and now has 3 approved liscences in nearby state which be operating in year.
This is a prime example of how the economy could improve so well if banks would offer help to small businesses within weed market. The little guys get big and hire local people for everything... the only reason that was all possible is because the typical 1%ers in our country havent started investing yet. When fed goverment makes changes they will swoop in and buy out majority these local owned places. Ones left over will be put out of business from goverment regulations that was paid an lobbyists from 1%ers put into play... sad story
Edit- got carried away with rant at end... point was that for the next 10 years there is money to be made. Millions in fact. IMO after goverment except it then you prob be offered money from some huge brand name or spend all that money fighting lobbyists an lawyers. Hope im wrong. Its cool to see the small guy make money.
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bottletoke
Well-Known Member
Don't mean to come off as a dick but your gonna put down $300k to grow professionally when you haven't really had a grow before plus your getting your business plan off a forum?
cool2burn
Well-Known Member
Actually not to sound like a dick but i Am an investor and will hire the people needed to ensure everything works out. Its called business. And secondly business plan off a forum? Bet you do not even know what a real one looks like. Mine is 50 pages right now.