I have a vanilla kush plant 4 days days into flowering. Yesterday I noticed a few leaves starting to sag and the stems they are attached to turning soft. This morning they seems to be getting worse. I am running a scrog and the leaves/stems affected are all below the screen, up top things seem to be doing alright. Temps when lights on are around 75 and hit the low 60's at night. RH is low/mid 40's. The plant is in a moded water farm set up that recirculates to a reservoir. Reservoir temp between 62-66. There are three water farms in the system. One VK and a couple of Tahoes. Both Tahoes are doing fine. We had a an unusually warm/humid day a few days ago and the RH went into the 60's. Could this be the problem? This is my first attempt growing so I have no experience. Any advise would be appreciated.
need help - saggy/droopy leaves, stems turning soft
- Thread starter deew
- Start date
einsteinus
Active Member
Kinda tough to tell from the pictures but I would try a few things to get a better idea what is going on .. #1 Trim back all the droopy dead or dieing fan leaves so you can see if anything is causing restriction of the plants circulatory systems..#2 trim away any shoots that didnt make it above the screen -- you can train new shoots that come from the renewed growth back up again but once again you need some room under there. Could be anything causing that drooping some of it is normal as your plants put energy into flowering but what you have is some kind of restriction (could be toxicity from some inpurity that is only affecting lower branches) some heavy metals will affect lower branchs first due to their molecular weight weight and gravity. By trimming and gerttingsome oxygen into the under-story you may be able to see some new unaffected growth- which is what you are hoping for- hope this helps keep in touch
einsteinus
Active Member
Looking at the pictures again I am almost sure you choked off some main branches .... Question--- when you first noiticed this happening how long did it take for the branches to sag? anything that sagged that fast has to be restricted death -- nothing but a total restriction usually causes that quick a droop even if you pour straight fertilizer on it
einsteinus
Active Member
check the photos he does have several verticel draft fans but I was also thinking mold/mildew but that usually dosent cause droop that quick in fact I dont believe it casues droop at all but thats what thinning out the under story would help
einsteinus
Active Member
also thanks to some fellow growers here and ed rosenthal keep in mind mold/mildew LOVES 60-70 F and 40%+ RH ..if you can push your temps to 70F-80F (night/day) to put it out of the optimum range of mold/mildew -- I had that issue in my calibration run and alougth I am running at 72 - 87 (night/day) 38% RH (which is pushing it some -- I love to push) my plants love it and the mold/mildew is just about completly dead....
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
shit I thought mold and mildew likes warmer temperatures with high humitidy. so mold and mildew like high humidity and low temps? guess i have been mistaken all along. what happends at 38% that is pushing it? dries the plant out too fast? Is drooping a sign you have too low a humidity? ...which leads me to my theory of whats happening to his plants...
Im new at this but Im going to take a wild stab at what might be causing his leaves to droop. Is it possible your water is not being airated well enough? The roots wont function right if they arent getting any oxygen and so wont bring water to the plant, coupled by your low RH and youll have leaves drying out. Im not sure how to explain it being only on the lower parts of the plant. Just trying to brainstorm ideas, Im not saying this is actually what's happening.
I just noticed some minor drooping in my plants, gunna bring the RH up see if that does it
good luck, hope you find your answer.
Im new at this but Im going to take a wild stab at what might be causing his leaves to droop. Is it possible your water is not being airated well enough? The roots wont function right if they arent getting any oxygen and so wont bring water to the plant, coupled by your low RH and youll have leaves drying out. Im not sure how to explain it being only on the lower parts of the plant. Just trying to brainstorm ideas, Im not saying this is actually what's happening.
I just noticed some minor drooping in my plants, gunna bring the RH up see if that does it
good luck, hope you find your answer.
Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "choked off"? Do you mean the scrog screen is applying too much pressure to the main branch or are you talking about not enough air flow under the canopy? The screen was added a week ago and the main branch is bent pretty drastically in order to fit under it. My cabinet is only 2.5' x 6' and I have 1200 watts going over three plants. The VK took off a lot quicker than the Tahoes and it is a massive bush. I can hardly see through below the canopy. Tons of growth under there. I added two small Vornado fans blowing straight up to try and get some air blowing through there. Another thing I should mention is I did change out my reservoir a couple days before I started to notice the problem. Using GH floranova grow up until this last change and switched to half floranova grow and bloom this time. I took the ppm down 100 from what I had been running in veg. They have been drinking this new batch up like crazy, about 4 gal between the three plants a day and lowering the ppm by 120 or so every day when I top off the reservoir. PH rises every day to 6.2/6.3 and I lower it to 5.8/5.9 every day when I top off. It has been like this from the start.
To answer your question, 5 days ago I noticed that some of the lower leaves started to have a "silky" feel to them, like they had lost all rigidity. I didn't notice the stems feeling soft until yesterday, which is when the leaves started to completely fall over, looking like they do in the pics. The branches they are attached to still seem fine, or at least they still feel like the other branches on the plant not affected. I have been keeping a close eye out for any signs of mold/mildew everyday, and I haven't noticed anything on the leaves. But again I am new to this so the only thing I have to go by is message board posts and pictures, no real world experience dealing with it.
Once lights come on today I will do some trimming. You said to trim away the affected leaves, do I cut off the soft stems they are attached to as well? You also mention trimming away any shoots that didn't make it above the screen. The screen has only been in there a week and their is a ton of them still under there. Take them all off? That is going to be a ton of plant I will be taking away. Thank you for your help
einsteinus
Active Member
If you think about it makes sence..you are correct about humidity they have to have it high to survive however since they really go crazy at night and can't live to well under 24/0 MEH lights thats the best solution. The temp they like depends on the GENUS and SPECIES the mold/mildew are...they all are diffrent...but just like pot that likes WARM but noit really HOT you can change it so that the plants can at least put up with it (high temps low humidity) but the mold can't...just enough when you get above 80 degrees F and below 40% RH just about most molds / mildews will die within a week of such temps and RH..that being known I did that and more and went close to 90F for just a couple of hours each day (the RH naturaly goes down as well) the plants not only can handle 90F they love it along with a lot of nutes and as much light as can be crammed into a small space your vegative growth will far outpace any mold/mildew..matter of fact in just one week after I cut off close to 25 % of all the leaves with even a hint of mildew I cannot even make out the old growth..it is already 3 or 4 nodes down and there is so much NEW canopy growth as I have stated before in theory and now am doing for real YOUR PLANTS CAN OUTGROW PROBLEMS IF HEATLTHY..View attachment 1942665
einsteinus
Active Member
Everything said here has some merrit as if the entire stem/leaf structure is affected to has to occur from BELOW that area which is dieing..so thats was my only point as the choking off effect..it could very well be the roots..however I would think if that were the case you would also have some effect on your canopy which does not seem to be the case..you want to trace as much as possible to what roots may be feeding what shoots--DON'T CUT ALL YOUR MASS FROM THE PLANTS -- just enough so you can get some air and be able to determine what is what--mild trimming has no real harm as if it is still in the stages of developing buds those left will just get bigger and of course continue training your understory to the top of the screen just do things a little at a time and if it works keep doing that.....
I took your advise and trimmed away all the dead leaves and stems. They were all on one branch. Turns out that I must of snapped the branch right at the main trunk when weaving under the screen. Or it grew under too much pressure and snapped itself. Now I have a 8" long branch completely trimmed of all leave and stems which is dangling from the main branch. What should I do about this? Its about 50% broken off. This is one of the first branches right about level of the Hydroton, the size of a quarter.
wheels619
Well-Known Member
if its not to far gone it can heal and repair itself if its supported. but hard to tell without pics.
1djwesty
Active Member
Dya know what,my plants looked EXACTLY the same as that two weeks ago.I almost cried when i saw them.I'd been gradually overwatering them and one day they just gave up so I let the soil dry out totally,gave em small amounts of water for a couple of days and then reintroduced the nutrients slowly but what i found was that from overwatering the soil had clumped around the roots thus starting to rot them which stopped them from taking in oxygen so by gently freeing up the soil in the pot with a small thin rod especially around the roots(being extremely carefully not to break them),the plants started to thrive again after a couple of days.I also raised the pots off of the ground by putting 2 by 2 inch peices of wood under them and have a some fans blowing the fresh air from my inlet up throught the holes in the bottom of the pot.Seems to have worked apart from one plant when i give it the smallest bit of water,it goes droopy.I think that the roots were too rotted but i'll percivere with him.Good luck.
PoppaDoc
Active Member
It is this hydrogen peroxide in rainwater that makes it so much more effective than tap water when given to plants. With the increased levels of atmospheric pollution, however, greater amounts of H2O2 react with air-borne toxins and never reach the ground. To compensate for this, many farmers have been increasing crop yields by spraying them with diluted hydrogen peroxide. You can achieve the same beneficial effect with your house plants by adding 1 ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide to every quart of water you give your plants.
(It can also be made into an excellent and safe insecticide. Simply spray your plants with 8 ounces of 3% peroxide mixed with 8 ounces of white sugar and 120 ounces of distilled water. Note; To make the spray, Start with a gallon of distilled water. Pour off 8 ounces of the distilled water and save. Put another two cups of the distilled water in a pan and heat. Add the sugar and stir until it is dissolved. Put the 8 ounces of 3% hydrogen peroxide and the sugar water in the gallon jug with the distilled water and mix. Now you have one gallon of insecticide for your plants. Mark container clearly)
(Hydrogen peroxide is odorless and colorless, but not tasteless. When 35% H2O2 is stored under the proper conditions [frozen], it is a very stable compound. When kept in the absence of light and contaminant's, it dismutates (breaks down) very slowly at the rate of about 1% a year. Hydrogen peroxide boils at 152 degrees C/305.6 degrees F and freezes at minus 2 degrees C/35.6 degrees F).
When exposed to other compounds hydrogen peroxide dismutates readily. The extra oxygen atom is released leaving H2O (water). In nature oxygen (O2) consists of two atoms--a very stable combination. A single atom of oxygen, however, is very reactive and is referred to as a free radical. Over the past several years, we've continually read that these free radicals are responsible for all types of ailments and even premature aging. What many writers seem to forget, however, is that our bodies create and use free radicals to destroy harmful bacteria, viruses, and fungi. In fact, the cells responsible for fighting infection and foreign invaders in the body (your white blood cells) make hydrogen peroxide and use it to oxidize any offending culprits. The intense bubbling you see when hydrogen peroxide comes in contact with a bacteria-laden cut or wound is the oxygen being released and bacteria being destroyed. The ability of our cells to produce hydrogen peroxide is essential for life.