need some lighting advice

im strictly a cfl grower its about time to replace bulbs currently im running between 5-6 to 8 58 watts cfl's at 30 bucks a pop im looking at the same price as a cool tube hps/agro bulb and 600w dimmable ballast price range
need some pro's and cons

at full power the agro hps claims 90,000 lumens
that puts me roughly at 12,000 lumens / sqr foot
thats 9000 more lumens per sqr im running now
i know heat would be an issue but i could just dim the ballast down ?

if i do switch im going to upgrade the fan i have currently a 240 cfm on a 6" carbon filter probably running 80 cfm after the filter drag


grow space is rougly a 3'x4'x4.5

i shouldnt have a light bleaching problem should i ?

First off let me say lighting should to be your number one concern/investment for indoor growing. Period.

I had some issues with my young seedlings, actually lost 4 of my 12 plants, when I switched from CFL to my 600 HPS. But I believe it was issue with heat and proximity to the light, not just light over saturation. If your plants are older then 3 weeks, and have a decent root system they should be ok.

After saying that I lost 4, I would not change back to CFLs for the world. I started growing on CFLs because they were cheap, easy to hide, and nice for beginning growers. I Probably grew for 1 year pure CFL when I "inherited" my first 400w MH, and from then on I will never go back.

I quit growing for years, and even started on CFL when I restarted recently. But that lesson I learn many years before stuck true in my head, Always go HID lights. A few years (5+) ago electronic ballast HIDs where quite a bit more expensive, and was a main reason I opted to start on CFLs. But now a-days you can purchase a 600w switchable electronic lighting system for under $180 US and god damn if bud density and overall plant health isnt 10x better over then the CFLs.

The only time I would even cosider still using CFLs is if I had some sort of micro grow space where the extra heat could not be easily discharged.

I have been exchanging post with you for a while tek, and you always show size with a pack of smokes so here is mine and I believe my ladies are much younger then yours I have even higher hopes for my second grow back and a more perfected set up.


And will be able to have 6 total plants under this one light. TBH you cant even compare HIDs to CFLs I mean come on you are even saying yourself that it will be 9000 more lumens/ft that is a 400% increase man...not even a comparison.

here is amazon link for exact light I purchased:http://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLSETX600DHMWING20-600-Watt-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005DOS0R8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365320025&sr=8-1&keywords=600w+ipower

Even if I had a smaller space I would go LED over CFL. If space is your one limiting factor get more room, why do something half the way you should. In reality you need one more foot of vertical to continue autoflowers with no problem, as long as you have glass inbetween (hood), and decent air flow.

Finally YES you can turn the ballast down, but at that pt why not just a 400 w or 250w HPS? would be more efficient and save life on your bulbs.
GL
- Probe

i can barely fit 2 flowering plants in my box as it is my setup is perpetual staged roughly 2-3 weeks apart based on finish time and size

so from what im reading if theres that much of a difference i might have to stick to cfl's
or improvise a scrog setup which would make a perpetual a little tougher unless i did it in halves have 2 screens then i can put the older one in the back seems like it would be a pain in the ass
with out another room for the vegging plants but then i could always just drop 2 seeds at a time and sog it
but that would put me in a bind with more finished product the meds i need are immature / just head high
as i have a irregular heart beat and try to stay clear of the racing heart on my day time smoke
and a almost rotten bud amber for sleep

and the only reason i was thinking dimmable is i could turn it down during the day to reduce heat and crank it up at night when its cooler


heres one for ya at almost 3 weeks dinafem original amnesia auto it as a slow start but its gonna be a monster glad i put it in a little pot lol
and i started growing under flourecents when i was 17 roughly i turned 30 last feb. it was almost a dollar a watt on a real grow setup when cfl's came out i switched from t-5's and stuck with it i have tried led's but this was the older versions low output and wasnt worth it traded it for a remote magnetic ballast 250 w ballast went out i went back to cfl's
and back then they worked but it was harder to get agro bulbs and cfl's had a wider spectrum choice when trying to purchase a little easier to dial in


this is the light im thinking about getting i need the cooltube style it fits with proper clearance and i can duct the heat out

http://www.thelashop.com/wing-cool-tube-hps-mh-grow-light-kit-250w/400w/600w/1000w.html#.UWGGZ6KkrnF

yes Cfls do great for veg, 58 w is a big CFL too, but you are running over 400 w aleady. If you can afford the HPS i would go with it, you never know you may move and be able to use it for a bigger area. And the bud density compared to CFL has to be worth the change alone.

And that amnesia sure is indica heavy just like my Ak. I love those big indica fan leaves, growth so think you can even see the stem

i kinda wonder what they would be like under hid i know as it stands most strains that yeilds a couple ounces i'll get almost an ounce if i top them if i top them i get just over makes me wonder what kinda results i could get with them and was gonna build a tent setup/box but i started working alot more hours so it got pushed aside i have many photo fem seeds ive been saving i havent ran 12/12 in about 3 years
and to be honest all i miss is the yields but with the super auto's i think i can make up for the yields loss
have you ever looked into the iranians auto's ? i think i might go this route with a sog style of shortly vegg'd clones its pure indica and supposed to be a killer stone and throw a super auto in the veg box for variety currently what im growin in was suppossed to be veg and about a year ago i finally said i was gonna build more space you see how well that went >.< i hate money if it wasnt for that or the need to eat i wouldnt have to work lol <~~~ STONER MENTALITY mwahahahaha

ya i dont know what yields will be like yet. this is my first time with autos under a 600w, im hoping for 5 ounces by the 5 plants atleast.
But I will keep journal updated and will let you know. but for HID you want to get about .5 g per watt, i think that number is much lower for CFL.

No I have never looked into Iranian autos, might just stick wit ak 49 (only like one country over anyways ) it grows pretty well, supposed higher yeilds then most autos, and I would rather master one strain then dabble with alot right now.

thinking about getting 2 of these http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=120&xSec=3
anyone used the multi spectrum?

tekdc911 said:

im strictly a cfl grower its about time to replace bulbs currently im running between 5-6 to 8 58 watts cfl's at 30 bucks a pop im looking at the same price as a cool tube hps/agro bulb and 600w dimmable ballast price range
need some pro's and cons

at full power the agro hps claims 90,000 lumens
that puts me roughly at 12,000 lumens / sqr foot
thats 9000 more lumens per sqr im running now
i know heat would be an issue but i could just dim the ballast down ?

if i do switch im going to upgrade the fan i have currently a 240 cfm on a 6" carbon filter probably running 80 cfm after the filter drag


grow space is rougly a 3'x4'x4.5

i shouldnt have a light bleaching problem should i ?

Click to expand...

So your space has a footprint of 12 square feet and a volume of about 50 cubic feet.

Figure rule-of-thumb lighting is about 50W/sqft for HID, and 70W/sqft for fluro. . .assuming you're using reflected linear tube fluoros. CFLs aren't necessarily much less efficient in terms of total light output/watt compared to good linear fluorescents, used BUT they're designed to throw out light in 360 degrees, and its difficult to get good efficiency with them in growing.

So for a 3x4' space a 600W HPS would be perfect, and assuming you set it up correctly with a good reflector and control heat, you're going to see tremendous improvement over 400W of CFL. I'd be shocked if you didn't get at LEAST twice the yield with the HID.

You shouldn't see light bleaching unless you run the plants really close to your light.

I think the limiting factor here is going to be HEAT. If this is an enclosed space, you're probably going to need to vent the light directly (ie with a tube-based system) and probably vent the grow area too. Ambient temp matters here. .. you can get away much better with a hot system in a 50F basement in winter than you can in an 80F uncooled one in summer.

If you're getting 80cubic feet/minute ventilation and have good internal flow you should be replacing all the air inside your grow area about once every 40 seconds. Assuming you're venting outside (so that you aren't "cooling" with heated air you've just expelled) that should be enough. Ultimately, you''ll have to try it and see.

AngryProbe said:

ya i dont know what yields will be like yet. this is my first time with autos under a 600w, im hoping for 5 ounces by the 5 plants atleast.
But I will keep journal updated and will let you know. but for HID you want to get about .5 g per watt, i think that number is much lower for CFL.

Click to expand...

Think big.

Your target "could" be 1 g/watt, though realistically to get there everything has to be perfect. You'd need a perfectly dialed in hydro system, a high yielding strain, and quite a bit of experience optimizing plant training/spacing. That's what the "big boys" try to do, though it probably isn't realistic for most home growers.

More realistically, I think most growers target a pound (16 oz) under a 600W. That's about .75g/W and with normal grows its probably a realistic maximum. Again, a lot of this involves training the plants into a perfectly flat canopy. . .that's probably not something you're going to be doing if you're growing multiple different strains at once.

For a novice 0.5g/watt is a perfectly good result, which would mean a yield of over 10 ounces under a 600W light.

I'd say if you're only pulling 5 ounces from a 600W system, something is definitely wrong. . .or at least you have a lot of for improvement. People pull that much out of 250W systems.

If your autos are only yielding 1 ounce each under that kind of light, you're either not using enough pot, or you should be cramming more of them in under the light!

Jogro said:

More realistically, I think most growers target a pound (16 oz) under a 600W. That's about .75g/W and with normal grows its probably a realistic maximum. Again, a lot of this involves training the plants into a perfectly flat canopy. . .that's probably not something you're going to be doing if you're growing multiple different strains at once.

Click to expand...

its not impossible just takes some practice
i hardly ever grow more then one of strain at a time

and on the ventilation i was going to duct a 6" cool tube and reflector into my 6" carbon filter unit but im almost sure 80 cfm wont be enough seeing as how i have heat issues with the cfl's im using at the moment and looked at them last night 3 of the 2700k are 68 watt ge flouro's they dont run nearly as hot a the 56watt ones i have i wouldnt be trying to switch to hid but the ge's 68 w is what ive grown with for years 130 bucks at walmart and you have 6 of them now all the have is the low output 56 watt the ge's almost double the lumens

Jogro said:

Think big.

Your target "could" be 1 g/watt, though realistically to get there everything has to be perfect. You'd need a perfectly dialed in hydro system, a high yielding strain, and quite a bit of experience optimizing plant training/spacing. That's what the "big boys" try to do, though it probably isn't realistic for most home growers.

More realistically, I think most growers target a pound (16 oz) under a 600W. That's about .75g/W and with normal grows its probably a realistic maximum. Again, a lot of this involves training the plants into a perfectly flat canopy. . .that's probably not something you're going to be doing if you're growing multiple different strains at once.

For a novice 0.5g/watt is a perfectly good result, which would mean a yield of over 10 ounces under a 600W light.

I'd say if you're only pulling 5 ounces from a 600W system, something is definitely wrong. . .or at least you have a lot of for improvement. People pull that much out of 250W systems.

If your autos are only yielding 1 ounce each under that kind of light, you're either not using enough pot, or you should be cramming more of them in under the light!

Click to expand...

LOL. You grow a PD with autos and a 600w Light then I might be more keen to keep an open mind. Second off realistic goal setting is key for self improvement in any field, going for what "the big boys" do (as if that really even means anything) seems quite lofty for some ones first time with autos.

And TBH maybe my projection is really low but I HAVE NO IDEA what these autos will yeild considering there is absolutely reliable info on the web concerning them and the seed banks providing them say 20 -35 grams per plant....

AngryProbe said:

LOL. You grow a PD with autos and a 600w Light then I might be more keen to keep an open mind. Second off realistic goal setting is key for self improvement in any field, going for what "the big boys" do (as if that really even means anything) seems quite lofty for some ones first time with autos.

And TBH maybe my projection is really low but I HAVE NO IDEA what these autos will yeild considering there is absolutely reliable info on the web concerning them and the seed banks providing them say 20 -35 grams per plant....

Click to expand...

if you swap to bloom nutes at first sign of preflower then the breeders info will be correct when they say 25-30 in 70 days they mean it as 30 grams of stuff that gets you high not perfectly timed harvest for potency that is if the plant is at optimal conditions but if you hang back with the bloom nutes you can squeeze 2-4 more weeks in and some of the big boy are pullin almost a 4 oz's from what ive seen there is one guy grow regular on here gets a pound every cycle almost 5 plants i think think different scrog i think is what its titled and your growing the AKR ? i think normal harvest is around or over 2 oz for those if i remember correctly

AngryProbe said:

And TBH maybe my projection is really low but I HAVE NO IDEA what these autos will yeild considering there is absolutely reliable info on the web concerning them and the seed banks providing them say 20 -35 grams per plant....

Click to expand...

forgot the main thing i was going to say indoor yields are measured in meter squared 20-35 grams is more then likely a outdoor ( 12/12) yield expectation if you cram a 3.2' by 3.2' full of these plants then you get the m2 number
you can only imagine what the extra 12 hours of light does