nervous of electricity

mrCRC420

mrCRC420

Well-Known Member
Use an extension cord; they have super long extension cords in every color. Do not rig your whole grow up to one of those light socket things; that's asking for trouble eventually. Also, figure out the Amperage on your breaker box. The breaker (or "fuse") probably says 15A which means 15 Amps, which means you drain 1500-1800 watts Total from all of the outlets connected to that particular breaker. It's worth learning your houses electrical limits :)
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
schoenrock said:
Westside how did Bottletoke get schooled? His post was based on what install method is proper for what the original poster requires and not what he could get away with. He is absolutely right by the way, sure a gfi or gfci can be used but it would be more impractical then adding a ground because reliability is a key in what the original poster is wanting.
So what is it you do for a living that makes your input more valuable then a "Licensed Electrician"? I'm also a Electrical Tech with a Electrician's License, nothing fancy but I work with GFCI's all day long(high voltage) in the design stages and I value someones opinion like a licensed trades persons because they see first hand on a daily level what works and what doesn't. On paper certain things seem to be better or more efficient then any original idea(like yours) but in real life they just dont work in certain situations(like his). I dont work as an Electrician and I probably never will but the license was something that I could get based on my background so why not.

Mr.Bottletoke, bravo for helping out.
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Where did I ever say my input is more valuable then a "Licensed Electrician"? Bottletoke is the one insinuating HIS input is more valuable then mine. --And I stand by my statement. I would expect a licensed electrician to know a gfci device doesn't need an equipment grounding conductor to offer gfci protection. I wouldn't even have made a comment about any of his advice or statements if it wasn't for him calling me out, and with attitude. And wrong. --And I'll give you one guess what I do for a living LoL.

My local AHJ enforces Art. 527 of the NEC regarding temporary power. So basically every tool on my job sites are plugged into GFCI protected circuits. Air compressors, saws, drills, pipe threaders, you name it... Yes, there are some trips. But it is surprisingly infrequent considering some of the working conditions the tools are subjected to. I experience this first hand on a daily level. NOT on paper.

So please explain why a gfci is impractical? The OP stated he is incapable of adding a ground, or he would have already. It sounds as if he is concerned he doesn't have an equipment grounding conductor, and he is incapable of installing one (For whatever reason). Considering that, I recommended a gfci device. The alternative is to do nothing. So, no ground, no gfci in what could very well be considered a wet or damp location.

With that information in mind. What do you now recommend?
 
lovemymj

lovemymj

Active Member
Some people don't want to hear the truth.... and won't stop asking the same stupid question until they hear what they WANT to hear! Whether it's right or not! Don't know what else to say....,.
 
bottletoke

bottletoke

Well-Known Member
WestSide Ukiah said:
Where did I ever say my input is more valuable then a "Licensed Electrician"? Bottletoke is the one insinuating HIS input is more valuable then mine. --And I stand by my statement. I would expect a licensed electrician to know a gfci device doesn't need an equipment grounding conductor to offer gfci protection. I wouldn't even have made a comment about any of his advice or statements if it wasn't for him calling me out, and with attitude. And wrong. --And I'll give you one guess what I do for a living LoL.

My local AHJ enforces Art. 527 of the NEC regarding temporary power. So basically every tool on my job sites are plugged into GFCI protected circuits. Air compressors, saws, drills, pipe threaders, you name it... Yes, there are some trips. But it is surprisingly infrequent considering some of the working conditions the tools are subjected to. I experience this first hand on a daily level. NOT on paper.

So please explain why a gfci is impractical? The OP stated he is incapable of adding a ground, or he would have already. It sounds as if he is concerned he doesn't have an equipment grounding conductor, and he is incapable of installing one (For whatever reason). Considering that, I recommended a gfci device. The alternative is to do nothing. So, no ground, no gfci in what could very well be considered a wet or damp location.

With that information in mind. What do you now recommend?
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Sorry if I came across harsh but I guess without hearing a tone of voice or seeing a facial expression forum talk can get out of hand. I was getting frustrated because the constant additions of ideas that are being tossed out there. I know what a gfci is and I know the difference between a gfi and a gfci as well. I wasnt saying that your idea wouldnt offer protection, I was saying that it wouldnt work without cinstant tripping....I just didn't think I would have to explain myself. Every electrician knows that gfci protection will trip out a citcuit where devices that we use are installed on(ballasts motors). If a light is scheduled to come on at a given time everyday and it doesn't 10% of the time issues will occur. Reliability is not an issue qith a ground. Supply the area with grounded circuits then offer gfci protection at the device that needs it.
Do u want me to be more specific?
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Not to worry. When you rebuild the house after it burns down, I'm sure you'll have it properly wired.
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
bottletoke said:
I wasnt saying that your idea wouldnt offer protection, I was saying that it wouldnt work without cinstant tripping....I just didn't think I would have to explain myself. Every electrician knows that gfci protection will trip out a citcuit where devices that we use are installed on(ballasts motors). If a light is scheduled to come on at a given time everyday and it doesn't 10% of the time issues will occur. Reliability is not an issue qith a ground. Supply the area with grounded circuits then offer gfci protection at the device that needs it.
Do u want me to be more specific?
Click to expand...
No Worries, Yes, something is lost in the discussion when it is in written form.

But actually, your first post directed towards me absolutely did insinuated my idea wouldn't offer protection. Remember? You asked where is the gfci going to "magically" get it's ground from? No mention of tripping until the second post, And my reply to the second post was that is a good discussion.

My guess is considering there is no equipment grounding conductor to actually leak the current to, and with advances in gfci noise rejecting circuitry, If using a quality gfci product his nuisance trips would be minimized.

Anyway, Of course I get your point about needing egc's. But it has been established before I ever even posted that the OP will NOT be adding an egc (for whatever reason). So that leaves him with either at least trying a gfci device for some added safety, or just leave it running the way it is now and hope he doesn't find himself stuck between potential, and a return path.

Or, another idea you had that I didn't see a reply to was moving the extension cord to a properly grounded outlet somewhere else. That would be good. But, going unanswered, I guess that wasn't an option for him either...
 
bottletoke

bottletoke

Well-Known Member
i should of been more clear about my comment "where is the gfci going to magically get its ground from". like i said, a circuit that has abnormal capacitance in it requires a ground or nuisance tripping will occur. capacitance is paralleled with the neutral and the ground so with out a ground the neutral on a gfci protected circuit will sense the short delay between the leg and the neutral which causes the trip.
i tend to type more short hand when i'm replying to threads on my phone.
 
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