New closet setup, running an under current system , looking for feedback and suggestions

brewster81 said:
Hey I was reading your thread on thcfarmer about your air-stone less system. You say you used a copper 6 way pex manifold? I always understood any copper plumbing is bad as it will leech toxins into your nutrient solution? Is this true or can I use brass or copper parts in my plumbing? They seem much easier to find...
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Anything I wrote on The Head Case Farm is years old and is very likely to be out of date.

The Pex manifolds were for the water cooling circuit, to deliver water to multiple lines to in turn cool Icebox heat exchangers and water to water heat exchange coils in several rooms at once.

It works tits for this purpose. The water heat exchange coils are pure copper on the other hand, and I've gotten the occasional poo-pooing about how it must be poisoning my nutrient water. First, copper is a micronutrient, so plants need some. Second, they get precious little from the pipes, because they don't seem to be corroding significantly. And why should they? My pH is not extremely acidic, nor is molarity (acidic strength) high. After all, we're growing plants here, not electroplating shit! LOL
 
ttystikk said:
Anything I wrote on The Head Case Farm is years old and is very likely to be out of date.

The Pex manifolds were for the water cooling circuit, to deliver water to multiple lines to in turn cool Icebox heat exchangers and water to water heat exchange coils in several rooms at once.

It works tits for this purpose. The water heat exchange coils are pure copper on the other hand, and I've gotten the occasional poo-pooing about how it must be poisoning my nutrient water. First, copper is a micronutrient, so plants need some. Second, they get precious little from the pipes, because they don't seem to be corroding significantly. And why should they? My pH is not extremely acidic, nor is molarity (acidic strength) high. After all, we're growing plants here, not electroplating shit! LOL
Click to expand...

I believe it was what you used as a manifold prior to the yellow irrigation fittings you showed me here on this thread. The problem with it you said was it created too much of a restriction. I always wondered how long your nutrient solution would have to have copper fittings in it to cause problems. If a guys is changing the res once a week does the copper even have time to leech to a point where you might have problem? The only thigh that is holding me back from pulling the trigger on this is the idea that in 5 gallon buckets eventually the root mass will interfere with the waterfalls ability to do its job by getting in the way? Otherwise it seems like a no brainer. I read in another forum that you actually commented on, results from testing between air stones, Venturi, waterfall and cap'n for DO. The results were that waterfall and cap'n provided the best DO. Airstones were provided the lowest levels of DO, especially at warmer res temps.
 
27 gallon tuffboxes gave the roots plenty of room, the waterfall plenty of space, and the nutes plenty of volume to go two weeks between res changes. Five gallon buckets got too small too fast for me.
 
justugh said:
ok lets look at waterfalls.............the only thing they need to oxygenate is the water for fishs and yes they do a damn good job of it but u are talking plants that are growing and u are trying to put on as much weight as possible ..........waterfall is shit for build a plant to it max power .......u would need to increase the distances it falls and be running the water at a massive speed more then 250 gallons a hour

honestly do what u want i am just giving advice to build u a massive plant .............the more u ppl make the less i have to supply to my ppl this month alone i did a pound and half .............. next month i have to double it ........at that point i am not going any bigger with out a com site to tie in for power


i am passing off the info i gathered with running exps and reading for the last year and half ...........what u are talking about will grow a plant but i know mine will grow better ...........why grow something like that when u can do better

hell if the guy really wanted too i could teach him how to make a fully automatic system only thing needs to be done is flush the water add the bottles of feed so the system can drawl off and clip his plants
Click to expand...

If I can chime in,
Water oxygenates at the interface with air. This said, tiny bubbles all contain air.
water must degas (release co2 and pick up o2) in the top 100th of an inch of
interface, so bubbles allow far more contact with air than falling water.
(35 yrs experience in fresh and marine fish propagation.)
O2 saturation of 100% is easily reached with a venturi pump or a lg. air pump
with a limewood air defuser they also make very good glass bead defusers.
 
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oldman60 said:
If I can chime in,
Water oxygenates at the interface with air. This said, tiny bubbles all contain air.
water must degas (release co2 and pick up o2) in the top 100th of an inch of
interface, so bubbles allow far more contact with air than falling water.
(35 yrs experience in fresh and marine fish propagation.)
O2 saturation of 100% is easily reached with a venturi pump or a lg. air pump
with a limewood air defuser they also make very good glass bead defusers.
Click to expand...

thank u

the only way to counter this with falling water is to have a higher drop with a jagged surface to break the water up as it falls .........then u need to increase the rate of flow

the correct air pump and stone/defuser u can have 100% oxygen even in 78f degree of water............the tiny bubbles are the trick with the high surface area and small size so the water pressure itself contains them

so when the roots get hit by them to them it like being in soil .........they are not drowning when the bubbles move up and they get hit with the water and feed they intake ...then the bubbles attach they stop and so on ............the smaller the bubbles the larger amount of air per min will get u a root system that will displace 1 to 2 gallons of water in a 4 gallon system ...........this equals huge buds with the right feed lvls
 
justugh said:
thank u

the only way to counter this with falling water is to have a higher drop with a jagged surface to break the water up as it falls .........then u need to increase the rate of flow

the correct air pump and stone/defuser u can have 100% oxygen even in 78f degree of water............the tiny bubbles are the trick with the high surface area and small size so the water pressure itself contains them

so when the roots get hit by them to them it like being in soil .........they are not drowning when the bubbles move up and they get hit with the water and feed they intake ...then the bubbles attach they stop and so on ............the smaller the bubbles the larger amount of air per min will get u a root system that will displace 1 to 2 gallons of water in a 4 gallon system ...........this equals huge buds with the right feed lvls
Click to expand...

That is correct. A venturi or lg.air pump gives the best o2 levels at high temps.

By cascading over a porous surface like lava rock the water is spread over a larger surface
allowing for better gas exchange. This is the best way to achieve o2 total saturation.without
a venturi or pump.
:peace:
 
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Just a side note:
Fish thrive at a o2 level of 90 - 95% saturation so it is a moot argument
comparing fish to a dwc system. These systems a rife with inherit problems
mainly temp control as water doesn't hold total o2 saturation at temps above
58 degrees.
:peace:
 
ttystikk said:
27 gallon tuffboxes gave the roots plenty of room, the waterfall plenty of space, and the nutes plenty of volume to go two weeks between res changes. Five gallon buckets got too small too fast for me.
Click to expand...

Might be kind of a dumb question but I'm curious how you adjusted your feed to last 2 weeks? All of the programs I have come across are for a res change weekly and the nutrient levels change weekly except maybe for week 5&6? It would be nice to only have to refill the res once every two weeks!
 
brewster81 said:
Might be kind of a dumb question but I'm curious how you adjusted your feed to last 2 weeks? All of the programs I have come across are for a res change weekly and the nutrient levels change weekly except maybe for week 5&6? It would be nice to only have to refill the res once every two weeks!
Click to expand...

Slow, steady dilution from a peak of 1.8 EC at week six down to 1.1 at chop.
 
brewster81 said:
So over the two week period you don't 'top up' ? How would one determine if he has enough volume in his system to go 2 weeks between res changes?
Click to expand...

This is an in depth question; has to do with res volume, speed of water take up, pH swing. I designed my system to have the necessary volume to go two weeks between changeouts. That's why I use 27 gallon tuffboxes.

I do not add nutes between changeouts. My topping up comes mostly from the dehuey effects of my water cooled air handlers; I just pour that freshly distilled water right back into the RDWC!
 
brewster81 said:
So over the two week period you don't 'top up' ? How would one determine if he has enough volume in his system to go 2 weeks between res changes?
Click to expand...

Dumb question, obviously if you don't run out of volume over two weeks you have enough. I'm just trying to understand how you adjust your food level when you mix your nutrients for two weeks rather than one as per program(s)
 
I guess if a guy looks at his weekly program and sees a change from one week to the next you could calculate the average additive levels over the two different weeks listed on the program and put that into the single two week volume of nutrients in the res when you mix it up?
 
ttystikk said:
This is an in depth question; has to do with res volume, speed of water take up, pH swing. I designed my system to have the necessary volume to go two weeks between changeouts. That's why I use 27 gallon tuffboxes.

I do not add nutes between changeouts. My topping up comes mostly from the dehuey effects of my water cooled air handlers; I just pour that freshly distilled water right back into the RDWC!
Click to expand...

Cool! Thanks man.
 
ttystikk said:
I love this- so now growing two pounds per plant is 'subjective'.

I'll take it!
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how many days are your plants 180 days ...........that one was 110...........180 days i can break your weight record but i never grow anything that long i go autos flowering quicker turn around
 
justugh said:
how many days are your plants 180 days ...........that one was 110...........180 days i can break your weight record but i never grow anything that long i go autos flowering quicker turn around
Click to expand...

No you can't, not at 180 days, and not at 110, either. Pics or it didn't happen. Here's mine;
20140522_012421.jpg

Two and a half. Put a bigger one up or shut up.

P.S. Does that plant look oxygen starved to you?!
 
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