New Grower, Please Help

D

daniism

Member
Hi, I have a general idea on growing by reading up on some threads but I think I need to start a thread of my own to get some specific help in order to start my own grow room. I'm planning on starting in about 6 months because I don't have enough knowledge or funds to start my own at the moment. I'm saving up to buy some materials so my first questions are: What materials do I need to start? And How much will it cost? I know some things I need already which I will list them along with a picture of my layout of the grow room but could you please list what else I need and the cost of everything? And could you look at my grow room and tell me if it will work out? Such as light efficiency and such.



This is my layout, will it work? I got the idea from Al B. Fuct's post about his SoG method using ebb and flow. And I'll also be using his method exactly the same but tweaked it a little to give me a little over a pound every 2 weeks. The veggie/cone is in one grow tent and flowers in another bigger grow tent.

Materials:
Flood Tray x6
Reservoir x6
400W MH
Florescent Light x?
1000W HPS x4
Ballasts to go with MH/HPS Lights x5
Odor Filter (what kind?)
Vent In x2 (what kind?)
Vent Out x2 (what kind?)
Dehumidfier x2 (what kind?)
AC x2 (what kind?)
Grow Tent (1 small for veggie/cone, 1 large for flower)
Fan x>2
Nutes (what kind?)

What else do I need?? Please list everything (even small items like scissors) and their price range.

How much do you think I'll need? I went over few sites and I think I need about $5000-7000. How much did it cost you initially?

Thank you!

Daniism
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
looks like a good setup man.. i would suggest using a couple of t5 fluro tubes for the veg/clone area.. these work great for this and don't put out much heat... they ran me about a hundred and fifty for the two footer with the four bulbs, along with an extra set of bloom bulbs thrown in for good measure..
a good source for lights and all is htgsupply, great service and cheap prices...
i agree with the above poster though... just start going through as many hydro sites as you can and look for the best prices that you can, make a list of everything that you want, with the costs of everything so you have a good idea of what you need ..... sometimes a hydro store will give you a nice price break if you order a shit ton of stuff from them all at once from what i have heard around here.
good luck with your grow.. i would also suggest looking up some peoples hydro grow journals on here and see what they are using to get an idea.. i know that roseman is the man to see about bubbleponics, not sure about what you want to grow with though, although i think that would be a good place to start..
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
What size trays are you planning on 3x3 or 4x4? With the closeness of the plants, you will have stretching, and a lot. I have basically the same set up using a form of dwc, and have found that moving the plants in the second half of the flowering period is next to impossible, and is impractical. The roots alone are more than you want to deal with, and with as close as i have them, and it looks like you are going to have them, the roots tangle together and are very difficult to pull apart even after a few weeks of being together. Light may not be suffcient either, i have a 1000 per 4x4 tray, and in later flowering the edges (of the tray) start to get quite shaded. I use only Dutch Master nutes, but that is all opinion, go look at a good grow store and see the selection, someone buys everyone of them. I do have ideas on how to make this work very well, but don't forget you must always be able to access the pump (in each tub), and i did not see that in your plans. You are looking at lots and lots of money, most of us build this up over time and experience. Therefore i haven't the foggest of what your looking at, but remember that greed above all is what will get you caught, and the more plants you grow at once the more fallout you will invariably have. O yeah, you will also def need an RO system, and a reservoir. You can find good links to cheap ones on here.
 
turtledurtle

turtledurtle

Well-Known Member
props for choosin Al b fuct as a role model, he is top dog.
those pictures are nice... but first you will wanna find the right mothers for your mother room, r u gonna get clones? or grow out a bunch of seed and pick your favorite?
u should be growin something right now if you are really serious, how u gonna get this $5000 to start w/? pipe dream! r u lookin for reasons not to start now?
grow something right now, thats an order!...
and maybe one day, u will rule, and be able to talk some funny mad smack!
 
D

daniism

Member
racerboy71 said:
looks like a good setup man.. i would suggest using a couple of t5 fluro tubes for the veg/clone area.. these work great for this and don't put out much heat... they ran me about a hundred and fifty for the two footer with the four bulbs, along with an extra set of bloom bulbs thrown in for good measure..
a good source for lights and all is htgsupply, great service and cheap prices...
i agree with the above poster though... just start going through as many hydro sites as you can and look for the best prices that you can, make a list of everything that you want, with the costs of everything so you have a good idea of what you need ..... sometimes a hydro store will give you a nice price break if you order a shit ton of stuff from them all at once from what i have heard around here.
good luck with your grow.. i would also suggest looking up some peoples hydro grow journals on here and see what they are using to get an idea.. i know that roseman is the man to see about bubbleponics, not sure about what you want to grow with though, although i think that would be a good place to start..
Click to expand...
So the t5 fluro tubes are enough light for both mothers and clones?

I think I'll buy them from an actual store, just so I can buy them in cash.. I don't want to buy stuff with cc just because I don't want any trails.. just a precaution..
 
D

daniism

Member
TruenoAE86coupe said:
What size trays are you planning on 3x3 or 4x4? With the closeness of the plants, you will have stretching, and a lot. I have basically the same set up using a form of dwc, and have found that moving the plants in the second half of the flowering period is next to impossible, and is impractical. The roots alone are more than you want to deal with, and with as close as i have them, and it looks like you are going to have them, the roots tangle together and are very difficult to pull apart even after a few weeks of being together. Light may not be suffcient either, i have a 1000 per 4x4 tray, and in later flowering the edges (of the tray) start to get quite shaded. I use only Dutch Master nutes, but that is all opinion, go look at a good grow store and see the selection, someone buys everyone of them. I do have ideas on how to make this work very well, but don't forget you must always be able to access the pump (in each tub), and i did not see that in your plans. You are looking at lots and lots of money, most of us build this up over time and experience. Therefore i haven't the foggest of what your looking at, but remember that greed above all is what will get you caught, and the more plants you grow at once the more fallout you will invariably have. O yeah, you will also def need an RO system, and a reservoir. You can find good links to cheap ones on here.
Click to expand...
I think it's 3'x3'.. is that too small? About the roots being tangled.. that seems like a big problem.. How do you solve it? Should I just move the whole tray instead of individual pots?

And you said you need 1000W of light per tray which I thought I need too reading up on bunch of stuff on light per squarefootage.. but I got the above idea from Al B. Fuct, and he has the layout just like above pic and he only has 1 light per two trays in the flower room.. and it seems to work for him.. I read he prunes the bottom 1/3 of his plants twice in the flowering period.. perhaps that's why? I don't know.. now I'm confused as to whether I have enough light..

There will be a 2' area between the two column of trays for accessing all the plants / res / pumps etc...

I'm saving up working close to 70 hours a week at two jobs to make enough to start this op. You said I need a lot and lot of money.. How much do you think? Is my estimate of $5-7K close? Do you think it'll be more? Because I actually have to save up more than $7k so I can have enough for atleast 3~4 months of rent + bills..

The reservoir will be under each of the trays but whats an RO system?
 
D

daniism

Member
turtledurtle said:
props for choosin Al b fuct as a role model, he is top dog.
those pictures are nice... but first you will wanna find the right mothers for your mother room, r u gonna get clones? or grow out a bunch of seed and pick your favorite?
u should be growin something right now if you are really serious, how u gonna get this $5000 to start w/? pipe dream! r u lookin for reasons not to start now?
grow something right now, thats an order!...
and maybe one day, u will rule, and be able to talk some funny mad smack!
Click to expand...
Yea Al B. Fuct seemed like he knew what he was talking about.. I hope he stumbles on my post and sees this and give me some pointers.. :)

I'm going to buy some seeds at a seed bank (actual store) and going to germinate, plant it, determine sex.. the whole deal.. and then get 8 to 10 mothers to start this.

I was actually thinking I should grow something right now.. I heard somewhere that if you can grow tomatoes you can grow anything.. so I'm going to get the feel of growing by learning to grow tomatoes.

I am just a broke ass student just wanting to pay my tuition + living expenses like rent + bills + food while I go to school, I'm taking a year off school to save up money working 70+ hours a week to start this so I can not fail... and yes I am pretty serious.. I learned a little but not even close to start this yet. Although I won't have the field experience, I'm using this time to learn as much as I can.
 
eyeco

eyeco

Member
Hiya fella, not being funny but as you said this is your first grow and all but this setup you looking at seems a bit ott for your first shot why not just get a 400w wide spec sodium and grow some seeds out 2 get the hang of it all and sharpen your craft a bit before you drop all that cash on your big system? you be amazed at the yeild and quality you can get from 5 plants and £200 worth og grow gear. and you learning at same time. Tho your plan is good its a lot work!!! never underestimate how much work getting stoned can be!, good look mate!.
 
D

daniism

Member
eyeco said:
Hiya fella, not being funny but as you said this is your first grow and all but this setup you looking at seems a bit ott for your first shot why not just get a 400w wide spec sodium and grow some seeds out 2 get the hang of it all and sharpen your craft a bit before you drop all that cash on your big system? you be amazed at the yeild and quality you can get from 5 plants and £200 worth og grow gear. and you learning at same time. Tho your plan is good its a lot work!!! never underestimate how much work getting stoned can be!, good look mate!.
Click to expand...
Hey, yeah I see what you mean. I am going to start 1~3 plants through its complete cycle.. or maybe keep 1 as a mother in veggie.. and learn by experience :) but I just don't have a place to do it at the moment even for a small set up.. which is why I thought about growing tomatoes.. nothing wrong with tomatoes right? hehe
 
turtledurtle

turtledurtle

Well-Known Member
r u one of dem people who is afraid of success? why you keep fighting? tomatoes... dude get a grip here... grow some dope, take the leap, dive in, adapt, stop making excuses
need stealth? try speaker grow, pc grow, refrigerator grow
but grow, and give it your best kid, you must start now!
you said it yourself, you need this!
now sound off like ya got a pair!
 
D

daniism

Member
turtledurtle said:
r u one of dem people who is afraid of success? why you keep fighting? tomatoes... dude get a grip here... grow some dope, take the leap, dive in, adapt, stop making excuses
need stealth? try speaker grow, pc grow, refrigerator grow
but grow, and give it your best kid, you must start now!
you said it yourself, you need this!
now sound off like ya got a pair!
Click to expand...
yea ur absolutely right, i'll go get some supply to start small op as soon as i get some cash
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
daniism said:
I think it's 3'x3'.. is that too small? About the roots being tangled.. that seems like a big problem.. How do you solve it? Should I just move the whole tray instead of individual pots?

And you said you need 1000W of light per tray which I thought I need too reading up on bunch of stuff on light per squarefootage.. but I got the above idea from Al B. Fuct, and he has the layout just like above pic and he only has 1 light per two trays in the flower room.. and it seems to work for him.. I read he prunes the bottom 1/3 of his plants twice in the flowering period.. perhaps that's why? I don't know.. now I'm confused as to whether I have enough light..

There will be a 2' area between the two column of trays for accessing all the plants / res / pumps etc...

I'm saving up working close to 70 hours a week at two jobs to make enough to start this op. You said I need a lot and lot of money.. How much do you think? Is my estimate of $5-7K close? Do you think it'll be more? Because I actually have to save up more than $7k so I can have enough for atleast 3~4 months of rent + bills..

The reservoir will be under each of the trays but whats an RO system?
Click to expand...
The roots will be your biggest problem, if you take the time to trim all 100 plants you have planned twice in the flowering period, you will most likely solve the light problem, with the exception of the fall behinds, which i believe will happen in this system. However that sounds like a full time job to me. About the roots, what if you do not move the plants, or trays simply leave them where they are until harvest, is there any reason this would not work? (plant in tray 1, then tray 2, then tray 3, then tray 4, and start harvest in the same order and just refill after harvest.) Obviously it is not the beautiful plan you had in your head, but it will save you a lot of headache and plant damage from trying to tear the roots apart. This doesn't cause any problems if you let them be they all feed together, and a bigger tray just allows the roots to go farther and still get caught. As far as the tray, that was simply because of the number of plants, its gonna be really tight. You may want to get out a tape measure and really figure out what 5 rows across 36" actually comes out for spacing. I have 6 rows in a 4' wide tub and they fight for light at that. An RO system is a Reverse Osmosis Filter, so you have pure water, then you can make it what you want it (rather than starting with tap or well water). The res. is for storage of the unused RO water, as the filters are slow most are about 100 gallons a day. Plenty enough for your needs im sure, but you have to have a place to store the water until you need it. This is simple to do with a RO system (e-bay or seach on here) a 55 gallon drum, and a swamp cooler fill valve. Also you will need a pump and hose to get it from the res to the individual res's. And also a drain pump and hose. As far as light goes, if you have not laid the electric yet (1000 watts run like 9.2 amps on 120v so 2 will need 2 circuts) I would plan on like 5000 watts and do 240 if possible, then if 2 lights isn't enough add more. Using OSB for a ceiling instead of drywall makes it much easier to place anything anywhere, not always possible but worth it if you can. As far as prices, that is all based on how much work you want to do to find the cheapest deals. You could pay $115 (plus shipping) for a 1000w ballast, or $400++ for a digital ballast. You can wire up your own Moguls and save a lot, but that is all based on how willing and able you are to do the work. Remember also that electical is the biggest problem in most grow rooms (believe me) so the more time you spend setting this up right means the less chance of a major fire (2000 watts can be a lot). There is at least 3 ways around everything in a grow (except nutes can't go to home depot for those), so if there is a cheaper way to do it that looks like it will work, maybe its worth the chance. I don't know anything about your hydro set ups but mine required that i take up 1-2 of the plant holes for an access plate to get to the pump, that is what i meant by access, if you leave 6 inches next to the tubs you can find a way around. Again this is a big grow for someone who hasn't had the practice to save one plant when things go south, let alone 25-100 at once. Also you might want to help someone harvest sometime and see what that alone takes. A 25 plant harvest with 2 people will take at least 6 hours, most likely much much more. Not to discourage but i am forced to agree with Turtledurtle and say grow something now. If you have the room for this and time for this why not start a $2k grow first and take your harvest profit and pay for it? Good luck
 
D

daniism

Member
TruenoAE86coupe said:
The roots will be your biggest problem, if you take the time to trim all 100 plants you have planned twice in the flowering period, you will most likely solve the light problem, with the exception of the fall behinds, which i believe will happen in this system. However that sounds like a full time job to me. About the roots, what if you do not move the plants, or trays simply leave them where they are until harvest, is there any reason this would not work? (plant in tray 1, then tray 2, then tray 3, then tray 4, and start harvest in the same order and just refill after harvest.) Obviously it is not the beautiful plan you had in your head, but it will save you a lot of headache and plant damage from trying to tear the roots apart. This doesn't cause any problems if you let them be they all feed together, and a bigger tray just allows the roots to go farther and still get caught. As far as the tray, that was simply because of the number of plants, its gonna be really tight. You may want to get out a tape measure and really figure out what 5 rows across 36" actually comes out for spacing. I have 6 rows in a 4' wide tub and they fight for light at that. An RO system is a Reverse Osmosis Filter, so you have pure water, then you can make it what you want it (rather than starting with tap or well water). The res. is for storage of the unused RO water, as the filters are slow most are about 100 gallons a day. Plenty enough for your needs im sure, but you have to have a place to store the water until you need it. This is simple to do with a RO system (e-bay or seach on here) a 55 gallon drum, and a swamp cooler fill valve. Also you will need a pump and hose to get it from the res to the individual res's. And also a drain pump and hose. As far as light goes, if you have not laid the electric yet (1000 watts run like 9.2 amps on 120v so 2 will need 2 circuts) I would plan on like 5000 watts and do 240 if possible, then if 2 lights isn't enough add more. Using OSB for a ceiling instead of drywall makes it much easier to place anything anywhere, not always possible but worth it if you can. As far as prices, that is all based on how much work you want to do to find the cheapest deals. You could pay $115 (plus shipping) for a 1000w ballast, or $400++ for a digital ballast. You can wire up your own Moguls and save a lot, but that is all based on how willing and able you are to do the work. Remember also that electical is the biggest problem in most grow rooms (believe me) so the more time you spend setting this up right means the less chance of a major fire (2000 watts can be a lot). There is at least 3 ways around everything in a grow (except nutes can't go to home depot for those), so if there is a cheaper way to do it that looks like it will work, maybe its worth the chance. I don't know anything about your hydro set ups but mine required that i take up 1-2 of the plant holes for an access plate to get to the pump, that is what i meant by access, if you leave 6 inches next to the tubs you can find a way around. Again this is a big grow for someone who hasn't had the practice to save one plant when things go south, let alone 25-100 at once. Also you might want to help someone harvest sometime and see what that alone takes. A 25 plant harvest with 2 people will take at least 6 hours, most likely much much more. Not to discourage but i am forced to agree with Turtledurtle and say grow something now. If you have the room for this and time for this why not start a $2k grow first and take your harvest profit and pay for it? Good luck
Click to expand...
I read something from Al B Fuct's post about someone asking him why not leave plants in their tray and just change up the res with nutes to go along with its flowering stage.. and Al's response was it might get complicated.. if it complicates things for him.. I think it will be definitely challenging for me. BUT if root tanglement is an issue then I think I have no choice.

The pot I looked at was 8" diameter at the top, which comes out to 40"... lol I guess I need a bigger tray! maybe the 4' by 4' tray that you have.

And I'll definitely get an RO system. I learned something new :)

And when you say I need 2 circuits, by a circuit you mean an outlet or a group of outlets that lead to 1 switch in the circuit breaker? Please tell me thats correct lol... How do you "lay" the electric? What do you mean 5000W and do 240V? Sorry I need to read up on electricity stuff, I don't know squat. Tell me like your telling a 5 year old please so I can understand lol.. Meanwhile I'll go read up on electricity stuff. Hopefully I don't cause a fire because it won't even be my own place (I'm renting a place to do this.. maybe an apartment) How can I prevent this? Should I just get a electric technician to set it up for me? But wouldn't he be like "wtf this guy is stupid enough to come ask me for help with this grow op" and report me and get me thrown in jail before I even start my first harvest?

I can use OSB for ceiling but I was thinking of using a grow tent instead of making a room. What do you think about grow tents?

Oh that's what you mean by accessing pumps, I forgot about that. I will have to take a plant out from each trays to accommodate the pumps.

I understand this is a big grow for someone with my background experience in growing which is none but I really will study up on this as much as books can help me and also have a small grow of 2~3 plants through their entire cycle to at least get the feel for it.

And you said this looks like a full time job.. yea your right, I know nothing is free in this world, so I believe hard work will pay off :) I'm willing to spend hours into setting this up right and hours into maintaining the plants and also hours into harvesting. I don't think it will be work that reaps no reward.

Trueno, you are so helpful and I'm grateful that you are taking your time to help me.

Thanks :)
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
daniism said:
I read something from Al B Fuct's post about someone asking him why not leave plants in their tray and just change up the res with nutes to go along with its flowering stage.. and Al's response was it might get complicated.. if it complicates things for him.. I think it will be definitely challenging for me. BUT if root tanglement is an issue then I think I have no choice.

The pot I looked at was 8" diameter at the top, which comes out to 40"... lol I guess I need a bigger tray! maybe the 4' by 4' tray that you have.

And I'll definitely get an RO system. I learned something new :)

And when you say I need 2 circuits, by a circuit you mean an outlet or a group of outlets that lead to 1 switch in the circuit breaker? Please tell me thats correct lol... How do you "lay" the electric? What do you mean 5000W and do 240V? Sorry I need to read up on electricity stuff, I don't know squat. Tell me like your telling a 5 year old please so I can understand lol.. Meanwhile I'll go read up on electricity stuff. Hopefully I don't cause a fire because it won't even be my own place (I'm renting a place to do this.. maybe an apartment) How can I prevent this? Should I just get a electric technician to set it up for me? But wouldn't he be like "wtf this guy is stupid enough to come ask me for help with this grow op" and report me and get me thrown in jail before I even start my first harvest?

I can use OSB for ceiling but I was thinking of using a grow tent instead of making a room. What do you think about grow tents?

Oh that's what you mean by accessing pumps, I forgot about that. I will have to take a plant out from each trays to accommodate the pumps.

I understand this is a big grow for someone with my background experience in growing which is none but I really will study up on this as much as books can help me and also have a small grow of 2~3 plants through their entire cycle to at least get the feel for it.

And you said this looks like a full time job.. yea your right, I know nothing is free in this world, so I believe hard work will pay off :) I'm willing to spend hours into setting this up right and hours into maintaining the plants and also hours into harvesting. I don't think it will be work that reaps no reward.

Trueno, you are so helpful and I'm grateful that you are taking your time to help me.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...
Where do i start here? I guess the electrical is the best place to start. If you use one room to do this it will have outlets already, but they will most likely be on one circuit (one circuit breaker in the box), which will almost guaranteed be a 15 or 20 amp circuit (breakers typically trip at 80% load which means a 20 pops closer to 15amps). What this means is that if you put 2 1000 watt lights (approx 9 amps each) in on the same circuit it will immediately trip the breaker and you will have no power. That is only your lights, not your pumps or fans or anything else you have in there. These are the reasons that it costs so much to go buy a bag. How to remedy this is not easy. Each situation has to have its own remedy. Obviously in a rental you do not want to call in an electrician at $60+++ dollars an hour for something the landlord will not approve. Not to mention what are you going to tell the electrician doing that you need that much power? Don't trust anybody. This is why most of us also make it a point to own our homes before trying this on any large scale. Also a landlord has the right to enter the property at anytime to make sure it is safe in most states. A grow this large will not disappear quickly, in fact after you move there will still be remnants. And in many states, if not all the landlord can be convicted along with you if you get busted. Not to mention the smells (don't care how many carbon filters you have) and necessary venting that is way way too much to not be noticed in an apartment. I know you think that this is easy a can be, but what happens if you get seeded? Then the whole room (yes the whole room) is trash, you still have rent to pay and a massive electrical bill, not to mention eat.
As far as a tent, i think i would be a waste of money if you already have a room, thats how we have been doing it for decades, just make it reflect like a mirror (dont use mirrors though) and light tight so no one knows, now you have a room. Yea not anywhere near that easy, but a tent in what you are talking about adds no benefits that i can see. If you dig a hole in a crawlspace, i can see using a tent, you already have 4 walls a floor and ceiling, why do it again? I guess you could get a little more light from a tent, lot of money though. Also i have never looked at how you are supposed to hang the light in there.
Books will do you no good compared to good old fashioned experience. Getting on here is a great way to start though i do admit, wish i would have had this when i started. They may call it weed, but it doesn't really grow like a weed. You really really really need to expect at least 4-5 harvests that are not what you expect. Just because one person can use a system and nutes perfectly, give it to another person and they will kill the plants dead on the same schedule. You may look into what (hydro system) you think would work best, hell i don't think anyone else on here even uses the same system i do, to each their own.
Again, sitting in on a harvest alone would show you how much work this really is, everyone on here has probably hated their scissors at one point or another. Can't say too much more, except it is a very very long intense set up, that takes typically a very handy man to be able to do right. Water and electricty do not mix, but that is exactly what you are planning on. So you should know everything about both water (pumps, movement, storage, transport and disposal yeah all that for water) and electricity you can. Good luck.
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
I just picked up the book "Marijuana Horticulture: The indoor outdoor medical growers bible" by Jorge Cervantes. This will tell you everything you could ever want to know. I spent a few hours in it and plan to make several changes do to it. Good luck let me know if you have more questions.
 
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