NEW LED lighting VS. HPS

I'm about to start my first grow and wondering if i should be the extra money to be safe and save on my power instead of using HPS use LED. www.htgsupply.com is the best LED lights and i would order from there. I will be growing in a grow tent also so heat will be a factor.
PROS of LED-
- NO Heat
-NO bill power bill
-No risk of plants burning or anything. Just the safest way to go in my opinion.

Just trying to get opinions if its worth it to spend the extra money. Because the New Led lights from HTG seem pretty good. would be buying UFO LED light and would be growing 4 plants. Also would be buying 4 single T5 lights.

I know there are some BIG non believers on LED lights from all the HPS growers. but please give me good logical responds to why you like HPS or LED or Why you hate HPS or LED.
-also LED are not what they use to be is what i hear?

I mean dont get me wrong I was gonna buy a LED setup... I heard there great for veg but if you dont have enough money to drop on enough LED's I dont think they will produce much. I was reading skunk magazine and they seem to have found the holy grail of LED's which is the 325w Penetrator from hydro source I beleive ???. They seem to work great in veg at lower wattage but I dont think you will get the same results unless you have alot more LEDS in flower than in veg. Just my own knowledge from reading magazines and looking at results online. So unless you have some serious cashflow ..... I dont know it may work for you if its for personal use ....

When comparing lights you want to look at lumens, not watts. That's why HPS wins hands down. More lumens/watts.

Try and add up the lumen out put of the LEDs, then add that wattage necessary to equal an HPS lumen output, HPS is more economical.

Good luck with your Grow! I am sure you will do very well with LEDs.

Your open invitation for others to chime in regarding their opinions.

Make the decision to grow via LED's or not. The Onslaught of assumptions regarding the better HPS and the Poorer LED is inevitable. Don't waste your time asking as you'll just end up second guessing yourself.

You know why you want to use a LED. *Personal Grow*; the argument will be that you will yield more with a HPS then a LED

Lastly; aside from marketing efforts, why do you believe that htgsupply is your best bet? Do you honestly think that they hold some proprietary LED technology that cannot/has not been duplicated by many other manufactures.
You note a UFO; 90W 120W | Dual/Quad band? Based on my experience thus far with LED's, I would not suggest one UFO for 4 plants. *Even with your t5s* (Esp if you are looking to gauge the effect of the LED light)

The positive reasons you noted are 100% good to go!

Here's the light I just ordered- http://www.specialty-lights.com/900504.html

It comes with both MH and HPS bulbs, a switchable built in ballast and the ability to air cool the hood.

It is a well known company and the price is unbeatable.

420God said:

When comparing lights you want to look at lumens, not watts. That's why HPS wins hands down. More lumens/watts.

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huh?

It's called photosynthesis.

I am sure that 420God is a very successful HPS grower; however his comment regarding Lumens is not correct. It's "absorbed" lumens, not "Lumens". He is 100% right the the HPS bulb will disperse more lumens, however the LED lights provide more absorbable lumens then HPS bulbs do. Result, HPS are not more economical.

krozone said:

huh?

It's called photosynthesis.

I am sure that 420God is a very successful HPS grower; however his comment regarding Lumens is not correct. It's "absorbed" lumens, not "Lumens". He is 100% right the the HPS bulb will disperse more lumens, however the LED lights provide more absorbable lumens then HPS bulbs do. Result, HPS are not more economical.

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Actually haven't grown with HPS yet but with a little research it's not hard to see which way to go. I have yet to see an awesome LED grow.

420God said:

When comparing lights you want to look at lumens, not watts. That's why HPS wins hands down. More lumens/watts.

Try and add up the lumen out put of the LEDs, then add that wattage necessary to equal an HPS lumen output, HPS is more economical.

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When looking at LED's Lumens aren't a very good indicator of output. Lumens only represent the spectrum of light visible to humans. (one foot candle power). PAR is a better indicator of efficency with lighting. If you are comparing two HID lighting sources (say both HPS bulbs), then lumens is the traditional measurement, but you must also remember that the majorty of light produced by HID lights isn't even useful for growing a plant. (most of it is green light). This is why we use such high power lights, to get the desired spectrums up to an acceptable level of output.

With LED's, you are only producing light in very narrow bands of spectrum. The idea is to make all the light on the plant useable. So LED's have 2-3 times the PAR output of HPS. This is where the efficency comes in. The problem wiht most LED's are that they don't have the correct spectrum represented to grow efficently and most people simply don't understand what they need to do to make an LED grow successful..

So if you want to use LED's, go with a Quad Band with a 6:1:1:1 ratio. I would also go with diodes that have a 90 degree spread instead of the traditional 120 degrees and I would also use high power diodes. Minimum of 2 watt but I would go with 3 watt.

Remember that LED's produce NO UV-B or and no far red or infra red light. So if you are only using LED's, I would add a few CFL's for full spectrum to promote branching. LED's don't typically come in a configuration with any light produced beyond 660nm. Far red (above 700nm) is what triggers shaded branches to grow out into the light. So if you want to grow bushes you will need to add the CFLs or you won't get branching and your internode spacing will be extremely tight.

I would also add a reptile light. (this is for lizards to produce UV-B radiation). You can add this to your LED or your HID grow to increase UV-B, which directly corolates to increased THC production.

My opinion is LED's are the future and I design and sell them. That being said, I think you need to supplement with other types of lighting to get the best product possible. (I also think that is true with any single type of lighting availabe besides LED's). If you want to grow buhses, I would add the CFL or some other full spectrum lighting to get the far red. If you want to grow single colas, don't add the CFL, Use the LED's and add the reptile light(s) half way through flowering.

Just my 2 cents..

Good points Bulldog. I use strictly LED and I top my plants and occasionally, have plants that don't side branch well. Now I know why.....

Just do a search for LED grows, see how many had awesome yields.

Serapis said:

Good points Bulldog. I use strictly LED and I top my plants and occasionally, have plants that don't side branch well. Now I know why.....

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That's the thing... Because this has been illegal qusai-legal for so long, it is hard to get factual info. Most people actually believe all the urban myths and they don't bother to understand the cause and effect relationship of all the factors that go into growing great weed.. A basic understanding of chemistry, biology and bio-chemistry makes it much easier to understand what is actually going on with a plant and how to manipulate it. I think we will make more progress in growing techniques and such in the next few years than we have in the previous 40. I suggest to everyone to read books not posts on the forums for your info. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the forums don't have good info, problem is, if you don't already know the answer, how do you decide which strangers opinion to trust?? Maybe it's because I am a fan of higher education but I truly believe that you need to study and apply the lessons to growing to really get to be an exceptional gardener.

I am running experiments with LED's all the time and I am getting close to being totally satisfied. My newest panl (3 watt diodes, 384 x 3 watt) quad band 90 degree spread, I think will do it. I am vegging some seedlings under it right now but will grow them through under this panel. So I will see how the yield is in about 12 weeks.... I'll post some pics when they finish..

LED's are getting better and better. I could see using them in 10 years time. Unfortunately this current gen is a bit too costly for what you get and they don't have a full spectrum of color that plants need. The spectrum of light created by LED's is very limited.

Check out KingIV20's LED grow here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/345308-600watt-led-hydro-gro-op.html

While I think he produced some really nice looking buds, his LED set up was supposedly equivalent to about 2000 HID watts and I think even he'll tell you that the yields didn't come close to matching that of HID.

In the ad for this product,... http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=53987 ...it states ""the Tri-Band 120 watt LED GROW LIGHT boasts light intensity and growth rates exceeding that of a 600W HPS"" BUT, what they fail to tell you, is that they only cover an area equivalent to that of a 150 HPS(maybe a litle more). I actually went to HTG Supply, in person, and told them I was interested in switching over, from HPS. At the time, I was set on either buying a 600 HPS, or that 120 LED, which I assumed would be about the same, performace-wise, after reading the ad. Well, I told him that I'd be really fucked off if the LED didn't do what the ad claimed(grr....lol), and then he came clean.....yes, you can get the intensity/growth rates of a 600 HPS, BUT, covering a much smaller area, 20-25%. He told me that I would need 4 of them to replace a 600 HPS, and cover the same area. That's damn near the same wattage, so all you are really gaining, is the reduced signature, at 4x the cost.

always take things with a grain of salt, I read that dude's whole post then he lost me when I read this,
"My opinion is LED's are the future and I design and sell them."

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO said:

always take things with a grain of salt, I read that dude's whole post then he lost me when I read this,
"My opinion is LED's are the future and I design and sell them."

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How did I lose you?? I design LED grow panels.. The info I provided was technical and not some crazy opinion.. Hell, I don't think I actually advocated them.. The last thing I wrote was that I was running experiments with them all the time and that I am getting near satisified.. That doesn't sound like I am pushing or even touting them. Hell my commercial grows are all under HPS lighting.. like I said, LED's are the future as in the FUTURE... although I think it will be the near future as in the next 3-4 years..

jawbrodt said:

In the ad for this product,... http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=53987 ...it states ""the Tri-Band 120 watt LED GROW LIGHT boasts light intensity and growth rates exceeding that of a 600W HPS"" BUT, what they fail to tell you, is that they only cover an area equivalent to that of a 150 HPS(maybe a litle more). I actually went to HTG Supply, in person, and told them I was interested in switching over, from HPS. At the time, I was set on either buying a 600 HPS, or that 120 LED, which I assumed would be about the same, performace-wise, after reading the ad. Well, I told him that I'd be really fucked off if the LED didn't do what the ad claimed(grr....lol), and then he came clean.....yes, you can get the intensity/growth rates of a 600 HPS, BUT, covering a much smaller area, 20-25%. He told me that I would need 4 of them to replace a 600 HPS, and cover the same area. That's damn near the same wattage, so all you are really gaining, is the reduced signature, at 4x the cost.

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That's why I prefer the 90 degree spread diodes... the spread past the fixture itself with LED's is minimal so I think you are better off focusing the light within the smaller footprint and getting greater intensity within that foot print. But you can use a larger fixture with a different pattern of LED's to offset the additional size of the fixture. I think that LED's size wise are good for something like a small closet grow. I have a panel I am building to put over a 3 x 6 tray. It will wind up being 2 600 watt LED Panels built into one. The panel will be 3 feet long.. I don't think I will get the coverage on the edges all the way around.

HPS has been used for years with great results and therefore has become the most predominant lighting used. This widespread demand for the technology over a sustained period of time has established a well balanced market for hps lighting. HPS lights and ballasts are fairly cheap, easy to come by, and of high quality. LEDs on the other hand, are newer to the scene. This means they are not as well established as HPS. The technology is fairly new and not widely used which makes the price high. Once LEDs have more time to establish demand the technology will improve and the price will go down. But this will only happen if LEDs are proven to produce the same results as HPS lilghts.