New smart meter can easily detect large grows.

Whatstrain

Well-Known Member
Just switch your lighting up. The main idea is to split up the "trends" of power use and it should help those of you who battle those summer temps. Veg run some CFL/Fluro side lighting for the first 4 hours HID for 8 and then the cfl/fluro for the last 4. Flower do the same but 2 hours of cfl/fluro, 8hid and 2 CFl/fluro at the end.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Ha ha, the BEST way to get the power Co. looking, is to do ANYTHING that tampers with their equipment or steals power. DO NOT DO THIS




On your bill, it says your next meter reading is blah. So You take them off the day before. Not that tuff. But ya can't miss it.

on this type of meter, I used two magnet top and bottom, each have 318 lbs of power. Bill went from 650 to 170.
 

Nobahd

Member
These tricks may be true for some people but in the end game if you get caught you not only going for growing but now another felony added on top with messing with the power meter... people dont realize if you living in an area that naturally has residents being busted for illegal power the company will be looking harder at everyone's power usage, i know for a fact this is not an uncommon story for people living in seattle specially considering we host hemp fest every year with over 200k attendants, the cops work with PSU (Puget Sound Utility) ive seen ppl get away with crazy shit in Tacoma then seen people get straight busted in Seattle.
 

richinweed

Active Member
Tilogrow, I just received a letter in the mail from my power company telling me that we're getting these Smart Meters installed in the next 10 days! My CFLs total about 300watts, I don't think that is really much compared to two large screen tvs, water heater, fridge, additional freezer in the garage etc.. Like lonelysmoker said, try to stay within the normal range.
...its not about how much power ...but the peaks and durations...in BC canada they are using these things to bust gro-ops..as they can detect usage patterns and sine waves....google it!........
 

smokinrav

Well-Known Member
dis meater is knot gnew man? So the Agents of the NWO (electric company) have once again thwarted big grows with a way to detect ballasts and crap, ancient tech. Now if the vulnerably innocent victims of this meter tragedy want to forge a new plan on growing with lights, try LED. peace
I posted a story about the next generation of smart meter on overgrow, it was that long ago. As I recall, we even discussed a decade long time frame before they became commonplace. That would be now, BTW. The biggest part of the story back then was that the meter could detect the on/off time of your grow equipment and log the wattage increase and decrease. Power would then know even your flower light size and when the girls were sleeping, and you were less likely to be in the room.
 

LearyRed

Member
I posted a story about the next generation of smart meter on overgrow, it was that long ago. As I recall, we even discussed a decade long time frame before they became commonplace. That would be now, BTW. The biggest part of the story back then was that the meter could detect the on/off time of your grow equipment and log the wattage increase and decrease. Power would then know even your flower light size and when the girls were sleeping, and you were less likely to be in the room.

This is just the case, they can detect the ballasts turning on or off.

Every appliance in your house has an energy signature, which is the combination of how many watts an appliance is using, and how quickly it turns on to use up all these watts.

It's called appliance load monitoring, or non-intrusive appliance load monitoring (NALM) in this case. (Oddly also referred to has NILM)

Check it out, I've posted this link a few times but no one really comments.
http://www.georgehart.com/research/nalm.html
That is the technology that they use to bust you.

Interestingly this page is from 1997, and it involves the old analogue type of meter. So basically they don't even need a smart meter on your house to get this info, but the smart meter has it built in, so that allows easier monitoring by computers, which changes the game a bit.

So if you do have a smart meter, and if you are in areas like Canada, where they changed the law to allow police to access power data without a warrant, then you may be vulnerable if you are showing any patterns.
And smart electrical grid is online this year! With no laws it allows the police to put in a data link to the electrical company, which will allow the police to sort the information through computers (IF THEY HAVE THE FUNDING!) This can actually be done rather cheaply, and would work on detecting patterns of use, and ballast signatures.
Then they just wait for the computer to build up a series of red flags against you, as it counts up the times it has potentially caught you up to no good. When they have enough data points to be sure, they'd be allowed to do a further investigation, either walking around your house, trashing your, or checking out your place with IR. They can also do knock and talks, but DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOOR TO POLICE EVER! (unless it's a very legitimate reason, like they have your kid on the doorstep, nothing can be set in stone)

Easiest way to get rid of this ability to detect you. 24 hour veg cycles, and 12 hour flip flop relays on your ballast.

FLIP FLOP RELAYS! Important! You must know what this is, if you don't already. A flip flop relay takes 1 ballast, and switches the power between 2 bulbs. So 1 ballast can run 2 1000w grows by switching the power every 12 hours exactly. This switch does not change power usage at all, there is no spike.
ALSO COST! A flip flop relay is typically $100 a ballast. So usually around $400 will get you a relay to run 4 ballasts, that's 8 lights, and no visible power usage!

BASELINE POWER USAGE! This will Increase when using flip flop relays and a 24hour veg cycle. If you checked out the page I linked, notice in the graphs how 0 power usage is never achieved, there is always a constant load on the lines coming from your house. Lots of things have lights, which use some power. The idea is you're building up this base power usage.

Now here's where it gets tricky. Baseline power usage being too high, can be reason for suspicion, but you can hide that with the 240v line (or maybe not, but you do allow more amps)

240v Your electric stove, washer and drier, all are usually hooked to a 240v line (high wattage appliances). Every house has 1. You CAN add others EASILY, but seriously read an electrical manual very well, and if you don't understand anything about it ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS or call the damn electrician!
Now the benefit is your ballast uses half the amps on a 240v line. If it was using 8 or 9amps, it now uses 4-4.5amps, which is also how they measure power usage.
240v lines are CHEAPER! (people are contending that it is not cheaper, if you know an electrician ask them!)

But the 240v line still has another advantage.

Also your typical house has 150amps of draw, 100amps if it's small. That's 8-12 lights, but 16-24 lights with 240v, not counting any other appliances though, factor those in and it's more like 6-10 and 12-20.

So no on/off patterns, and lights on 240v lines to reduce baseline power signature, and cost! :D
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
I have had a smart meter for a few years, but I don't grow anything large. They say those meters can do many things and can even turn off power remotely. Well, I forgot to pay the bill and a truck showed up out front and they pulled the connect just from the poll killing power. I have a partial home generator so all was good when I separated the house from the mains and fired it up while the wife went in to pay.
I thought then loss of power on a smart meter would trigger a tamper flag. I went to look at the meter about 30 min after power was out, and it was dark. Totally blank. If it was not sealed, I was tempted to pull and replace to see what happened and blame it on the power guy if it flagged...but since I will never steal electric I decided not to do that test. But from the looks of it, it was totally dead in the water. My power company must be using the very basic programming on it as they had to send a truck to a rural town, twice.
 

cindysid

Well-Known Member
hahahah a couple 1000 watters isn't gonna raise an eyebrow...at least not in Cali..
It might somewhere else, but I really doubt it. I think that there is a lot of paranoia about detection techniques. Most people who get busted around here do so because the cops were called to their property for another reason, or an enemy snitched them out.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
On your bill, it says your next meter reading is blah. So You take them off the day before. Not that tuff. But ya can't miss it.

on this type of meter, I used two magnet top and bottom, each have 318 lbs of power. Bill went from 650 to 170.
Please send letters from jail, so we can keep in touch with you.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Please send letters from jail, so we can keep in touch with you.
LOL... Well I take mine off so I don't get caught.... but you guys amke way to much of all of this. Don't be a stoner and take them off when you are supposed to and there won't be a problem
 

BlueBalls

Well-Known Member
Now the benefit is your ballast uses half the amps on a 240v line. If it was using 8 or 9amps, it now uses 4-4.5amps, which is also how they measure power usage.
240v lines are CHEAPER!
240V is not cheaper.
Power usage is billed in kilowatts per hour.
8A @ 120V = 960W
4A @ 240V = 960W

Also your typical house has 150amps of draw, 100amps if it's small. That's 8-12 lights, but 16-24 lights with 240v, not counting any other appliances though, factor those in and it's more like 6-10 and 12-20.


That is also not true.

If it is a 100A panel; it is 100A per leg.
With proper load balancing; That's 10x10A@120V devices per leg for a total of 20x10A@120V devices or 20x5A@240V devices.
 

bass1014

Well-Known Member
so i have been reading the issue's here about "smart meters" they are just a way to stop sending out meter readers that arent doing there jobs and not reading the meters properly and charging customers out the ass for power.. so all of these meters are to the power company can send one truck out with a meter reader on top the truck.. saves on people walking for days and not being able to read them and getting shot at for being on private property.. so when you see the power truck ride through your area they are more than likely just picking up your meters signal and it sends the usage to the trucks signal and then to the power co..
i live in va and the population is unreal so to save money ,time and people the use the satalite trucks..this also guarantees a proper bill to each customer.. soon every electric co. will go to these. as they are alot harder to steal power.. so when you see power people driving in the trucks just relax
 

LearyRed

Member
240V is not cheaper.
Power usage is billed in kilowatts per hour.
8A @ 120V = 960W
4A @ 240V = 960W

I will admit to having read this, and I'm not an electrician. So all I can attest to is many testimonials that it's cheaper. I personally think the cost is in nutrients, not electricity.
I already know about the Kw/h but I was informed that the amperage and ballast conversion effected the cost more, but you sound like you know what you're doing, so I'll bow to the expert. I'm still studying the electrical part, which is easily the most complex part.



That is also not true.

If it is a 100A panel; it is 100A per leg.
With proper load balancing; That's 10x10A@120V devices per leg for a total of 20x10A@120V devices or 20x5A@240V devices.
So each half of the panel? Because here the houses have been wired since waaaaay back in the day. They're pretty much all old fuse standard, and have as little as 50amp lines.
I thought that was the main line to the house, so 50amps delivered to the house. I know you can get them to run other lines, and upgrade the panel from fuses to a breaker. Then it's just a matter of running more lines for power.

But you still have half the amp draw anyway? So it doesn't overload it as easily. As you said 20x10A@120v devices per (10 per 100amp leg) or 20x5amp@240v. As the ballast goes from a 10amp to a 5amp device essentially on a 240v line
 

FLOWERMASTER

Active Member
lol thats y you have 2 lights that turn on and off randomly (always one on) that way there is no 12/12 spike...just a butch of randown spikes.
 

LearyRed

Member
lol thats y you have 2 lights that turn on and off randomly (always one on) that way there is no 12/12 spike...just a butch of randown spikes.
They detect cycles and spikes, which are signatures actually. So ya everytime that random light turns on, you give them a datapoint that you're running a light. That power spike is evidence against you, it's not hiding you at all.
 

blindbaby

Active Member
a whole 300 watts!! that means u could be leaving a tv on dude. a hair dryer is 1500 watts! same with a toaster. same with a dryer. or iron. but 300? no. realax.
i am pulling probably an extra 2000 total. im not worried. lots of things like welders used at homes, really rack up the kpr! a grower i know, is in his 30th year of growing, and the last ten, he has been pulling 10,000 watts!! he had an elec come in and magnum out his circuit panels. including heaver gauge wire. lol. oh. my ballast uses "cold start technology". its takes forever to come on all the way. this is for two things. one, is to be easier on the bulb, to heat up slow. also, the power spike will be reduced a great deal. maybe not even be seen?...
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
They can easily detect if anyone is growing, period. Doesn't matter how large your operation is. If you're using 12/12 consistently it will show up and be extremely easy to discover using a simple computer program.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
a whole 300 watts!! that means u could be leaving a tv on dude. a hair dryer is 1500 watts! same with a toaster. same with a dryer. or iron. but 300? no. realax.
i am pulling probably an extra 2000 total. im not worried. lots of things like welders used at homes, really rack up the kpr! a grower i know, is in his 30th year of growing, and the last ten, he has been pulling 10,000 watts!! he had an elec come in and magnum out his circuit panels. including heaver gauge wire. lol. oh. my ballast uses "cold start technology". its takes forever to come on all the way. this is for two things. one, is to be easier on the bulb, to heat up slow. also, the power spike will be reduced a great deal. maybe not even be seen?...
There's always a spike, even if it's small, if it's a consistent 12/12 you will be easily discovered without any effort at all.
 

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
i just found out that i have a smart reader at my appt and did some research on how easy it is for police to get that info and its pretty messed up. all they need is a suspicion that your growing ie someone talking or neighbors calling in a tip and they can get your usage info.

in one case below someone even got busted because a cop was working with a power comp employee to sniff out high usage and 12/12 peaks. it is stressin me out even tho it would have to be a big grow to be red flagged its still fucked up. If anyone has anymore info on this it would help me out.
how many watts do you think would be obvious as a grow?


View attachment 1632140







http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/are-smart-meters-real-time-surveillance-spies


http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/28/police-suspecting-home-pot-growing-get-power-use-data.html


http://nevergetbusted.com/ngbbb/about928.html


http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/03/utilities_are_a_cops_best_friend_finding_marijuana.php
With the new 'smart meters", wattage isn't nearly as important a threat as useage patterns are now. Those fuckers can detect the blinking of LED christmas tree lights in real time, and many cops in areas where the meters are in place are recruiting power co employees to watch for the tell tale usage patterns. I forsee a huge amount of litigation aand probable cause challenges in the near future.
 
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