Newbie - First journal 2010, white rhino - CFL - "Rubbermaid" microgrow

yesterday I was lucky enough to get a clone from a grower.

He/She walked me through taking a cutting, rooting powder, etc.. and it was put into a makeshift dome /w rockwool. He/She had basically told me not to touch it for a week or so.. make sure there is a good root system before transplanting.

This was unexpected so you won't see my grow box until I build it! I already have the materials (except nutes and soil) and a plan but this opportunity fell into my lap.
And at least a week before it needs tending apparently.

He/She said it was white rhino. It looked like a healthy plant. No discoloration, wilting and leaves looked fine. No balls so it looks female lol.
I've heard of some difficulties with "white strains" but this was a freebie so not complaining. If it dies I have seeds and will learn from the experience.

my plan:

using soiless mix; sunrise, pro mx or similar
will add to if needed (verm/perl)
Compact fluorecent lights; 4x 2700k 42w and 2x 6500k 42w
2x "rubbermaid" bin; (Will be stacked on top of each other) 18" D, 23.5" W, 16" H
Nutrients depend on local sources but looking at foxfarm or pureblend
Already have ph meter, temp and hyrdro. Also less reliable moisture/temp/light meter
1lb of activated carbon, also an odorsok for filter/odor
Will start with 120mm pc fans and power supply
Timer is rated for 8a and says "compatible with cfl"

I have plumming supplies, pots, glue, duct tape and other misc for tight seal, weatherproofing... I know I will need a larger fan for filter but the plant so far isn't "stinky", so waiting.. It'll have a intake on bottom and outlet on lid (top). I also may put in a circulation fan. The container is painted and marked out so ready to cut.

Here is a picture of the "greenhouse" cup and clone. I haven't opened it, or removed for pictures. I will post more pictures later, and grow box construction. Still any comments, suggestions are welcome. I do have two questions though; after its first week, and roots aren't robust enough, should I mist/water it again or leave it for another week? Should I leave the lights 24/7 and then 18hrs or start on 18hr cycle now?

P.S. I hope the images work correctly. I am basically using the album for first time.

1st Week Update (well around 1, 1/2weeks):

There are two roots outside rockwool. Both are around an inch long. There are 3-4 new flowers but the node on top is flowering slowly. The temperature has been maintained fairly well. Except for today during dark cycle. It dipped 6-7 degrees lower.

I have only given light water every so often and kept rockwool moist on top/bottom. I did make one mistake and fed it tap water (with ph around 7.1-7.2ph) once. Live and learn.

There are some yellowing on top two, new leaves. They are halfway yellow/green. There is also yellowing on the tips of other, larger leaves. I'm a bit concerned as I'm not sure if it was because of the ph OR if this is a normal while a clone is growing roots?

I'll send some pictures in a bit. Its 2am and after a little music I'm going to sleep.

Third Week update (Flowering Stage):

Sorry. I've put off this too long. Update time. Growbox is being "fixed" while running. Been using lamp inerts for lighting til tonight when I change to fixtures I made. I hope it goes well. I've weather stripped it, sealed the major holes. Although the job does not look pretty its functional. If this is a guide to anybody its probably those like me who aren't too handy but not a disaster.

The clone has been transplanted for almost 4-5 days now. Soiless mix with 1/2 perlite/peatmose. I bought General Organics "Vegan" (Bio Thrive) Grow/Bloom. While I was hoping for pure blend or foxfarms its "organic" so it should give the marijuana a good taste. I'm using 1/4 strenght right now but next feeding will probably be 1/2 or more. I'm using 3x 42w cfl (6500k) and with fixtures I'll have 4x in no problem. The airflow is ok. However I had issues with psu so using a hepa filter/cleaner with 3 speed settings.

I have one thing thats a tad worrying. I'm not sure if, since it IS GROWING, it makes a difference but i haven't been able to get "optimal" temperatures. I will have my air conditioner tomorrow or next but right now its between 76-84F during day and 70-74F at night. The humidity is staying around 26-30% (day and night)<-- no real difference. I tried adding some water to evaporate and I've sprayed the folliage with pure water in morning but nada. No change from inside humidity and normal room humidity.

Should I worry about the difference in temp? Are there anyways to increase humidity without appliances or alot of $$$?
I was thinking about co2. While co2 controllers are beyond my skills/money are there homemade ones I could stay outside the growbox but feed co2 inside and use household items? And can you give me an idea, if possible, how much to feed to single plant?


Here's a "preview", This is just before the first feeding and some yellowing. Although color is almost same now. Also there is more cfl, I had to push one out of the way while photographing. Still working on howto get a closeup shot (macro) I just have a point and shooter so they won't be great when I do.

small update:

I worked on the "second half" of the growbox tonight. I did the first wiring (electrical) I've done in a LONG TIME. Two replacement wall sockets, some wire and two rubber gromets for a good seal. I originally hoped to have one fixture per side but the width was too much. I bolted it to a thin board, cut holes for wires, etc.. It is now working ok, testing current wattage and keeping fingers crossed - however unless something major happens I think I'm good.

The leaves are now turning a sheany green and most leaves have recovered. One more may be cut because I think its probably dead (yellow). OH.. And I just fit the air conditioner in my room. I turned it on and after 1/2-1hr the moisture went up. The grow is now 76F with 38% humidity but may fluxuate so I will monitor it with my webcam.

So far its going well. The General Organics does seem to balance ph by itself. Luckily with the peatmoss, ph, and fert the balance is being kept at around 5.6-5.8ph. I'm seriously thinking about getting \\only\\ the calmag suppliment but will see how $$ is the next few.

Since I overalled and changed the fixture the temperature and humidity (facing the plant) is doing well.

Last couple of days have been 72-75F at night, 80-84F during day. With humidity staying roughly 35-40% night and day.
I want to say to those reading this, do not overlook airflow. Because the lights to be wired paralell to each other I fixed by
positioning them vertically. But I didn't leave alot of space on sides to allow "breathing". I still want to tweak the design but it is consitance and airflow is 200-300ft/min. I do keep the air conditioner on to keep room at around 75F when I'm here though.

I re-checked my water/fert mix and it was all 6.3-6.4ph. Only using 1/2 strenght fertilizer regiment. The plant is around 4-5" tall and
quite bushy, plenty of leaves and looks like new branches.

I was wondering since my topsoil is really dry at times if it was ok to just water a little or leave the pot until it "feels" it needs water by weighing method? Because I pick it up, and it feels almost 1/2 heavier (its a 1.4l pot btw) but top is bone dry. This soiless mix doesn't clump \\great\\ so maybee next grow I need a new blend/brand or another additive to get that effect.


Here is one picture of two leaves I've trimmed. You should be able to see the "burnt" white tip. Also the discoloration of the larger one..
Right now I am noticing some white spots on a few newborn leaves. I've looked around and seen spidermites or flies as possible culprits.. But first I want to see if I'm over reacting or gotten the diagnosis wrong. I haven't found any pests yet but perhaps need magnifier glass. Let me know what you think. If something stands out or have questions please do so.

If the mother plant is in preflowering will the clones be as well?
If I look for a tds/ppm meter later on what kind can I find on a budget but decent features?

update:

Oh. Its been brought to my attention the plant is a white Russian, not white rhino. I will ask the moderators for a change. I'm sorry for any confusion. Entirely my fault. I should have written it down as I got the cutting.

I think I may have some problems with the girl. I have yellowing signs on one fan leaf and 3 others are dark yellow. This is after it cleared up! I've kept the heat/humidity the same so I'm not sure.. what should I do?

I did some googling prior to post, but it seems different symptoms or more than one. I think I've messed something up this time and not just being paranoid.
I havent found bugs, so I do not think its that. I tested the ph and everything is around normals. So I think it could be
deficient in some way. It probably started on middle or low leaves, they started also to "curl" inward. But since pictures tell
a thousand words. Check the two wider leaves in front. The low one has very dark stem in contrast to the leaf. It looks a bit lighter
color in person. The one higher up and to the right has "spots" in middle and near the end of leaf. On the non-closeup there is also spots near the edges of another leaf, near the bottom of the leaf. The rest of the plant looks ok (to me).
Oh.. And last feeding was 4 days ago, she's 16 days into transplant into soil and is currently on 3/4 strenght ferts.


If you have anymore questions I'm happy to help. If I'm stressing over nothing I'm sorry.

will update tomorrow, sorry for taking so long
and I will update on the yellowing, and how flush went

Hey man take a look at my post and look at the pictures. I'm having a bit of the same problem with a bit of discoloration and leaves drying out, but since then I have moved my light up and the discoloration started before I actually filled the whole pot up with Hydroton. It could be that it's not getting enough water.

sorry i didn't update yesterday. I was sick from something, maybee meds... Its been 2 weeks since flush and a little over a month since transplant. The branches were drooping a bit over last few days or more but watered 2 days ago with 50/50 fert/water. Its looking a bit better now and color is comming back. Its about 7" tall now and seeing alot of growth near the
flowering sites. Also branches are starting to spread out.

The temp stays around 75-79F most days. I keep the humidity above 50% day/night. During night the temp drop is no less than 70F. I've had to use a clip-on 8" fan to keep airflow going and temp down. (outside of box). Hopefully it'll get a bit larger and I can start flowering soon.

that does look similar damage to the leaves. I moved the lights up a bit also. It didn't "spread" so it could have been that as well. I'll need to lookup Hydroton as not sure what that is

The are clay pellets that take the place of soil...It sounds like you have taken care of your problem as well. I moved the light up and set mine in her pot and she is growing like crazy.

The day before, I watered with simple h2o. Ph'd 6.0 and gotten about 20% runoff. She is drooping a little but probably just thirsty. There was some yellowing and leaf curling (to bottom) but today she's less yellow and I'm hopeful. She's very close to 8" tall now. The temperature has been a steady 75F (average) during day and 72F (average) during night. The humidity has been around 50-55%
day/night. The lights have been dropped again to keep it at around 2-3" (although its hard to get a definite measurement). Because her roots are getting a bit too much for the pot I'm planning a transplant pretty soon. No big muckoffs so far, except the previous flushing.

Lights are a bit tricky in this size box and while I'm speaking about things I'm gonna suggest anybody do these type of grows to find a good airflow and lower/highten the plant by blocks/cds/legos or whatever else you have and keep the lights about same distance.

The book I have says before flowering it should be around 10" tall. But I'm wondering first if thats set in tone OR possibly a good time for me to do it because of limited space? Some estimates are 1.5-2x size but with 30" give or take I have to be careful.

I was also wondering if I could try to "influence" the limbs to spread out a bit? I was thinking of paperclips or very small wire to lower the limbs out of the way, let them grow and adjust to the position and stop. Can this achive what I'm looking for? (there's only really 3-4 branches) I assume if something breaks you could mend it and it'll still grow anyways.... Uh, right?


And yes, it seems the worse is over so far.. I'm hopeful

well depending on where your limb breaks it will but if it breaks in the middle it will deffinately kill off the rest of the limb. do you have any pictures so we can see your setup and what your plants are lookin like. You might be getting some the drooping and yellowing from it being thirsty. Do you have a dehumitifier cause that could be causing the droop as well. 75 degrees is pretty hot so I'd add some airflow sources and I'd add a fan just to blow a little bit against the plant to make the central stem sturdy and that'll also make the root growth speed up so that the plant is really rooted and the stem will gain some mass. Mine is getting monsterous, her central stem is almost a foot tall, beasty!

ahh. I see. I makes sense. A few limbs I've clipped had "died" and fallen off. I will send you some pictures of setup and my girl later today.
I think its thirst or something. I do not have a dehumidifier (plugged in) but I do have an air conditioner and a cool mist humidifier to control temperature. Unfortunately there is no "dial in" for temp or R/h so its kind of guess work based on weather forecast. There is also a clipon walmart fan I use sometimes to blow or circulate air inside the box or closet. I bought a simple usb fan from ebay I can direct air onto the plant. I don't think it'll be a miracle worker but with such a limited space it "could" help and regular fans won't fit inside (rubbermaid "stealth" microgrow). If that'll also make her sturdier and speed up root growth all better. This girl's mother plant was a foot or so tall, so that one is a beasty.
But it does depend on genetics. She's a white russian.

Yea White strains are very tough buggers but with some TLC it'll be happy and grow. I would get a thermometer to put near the plant grow area so that you know exactly what temp it is in that space. I am actually running a little rogue right now because my grow space get HOT and I have to run A/C all the time to regulate the temp. It stays around 65 to 70 degrees F. My setup though is good because the roots have all the water and oxygen (so they don't drown themselves) they need all the time so the only thing I worry about is the temp. I will probably be upgrading some things though so that she has no reason not to be happy and beast her way to the sky. I'll post a pic of my setup on your thread if you'd like. I can even explain what is going on too. I did have some heat damage but I clipped those leaves and she is just rapidly replacing leaves and stems like crazy. I'll post a pic of her tomorrow once the system comes on.

maybee that explains why things are going kinda bad. I do keep a probe nearby the plant to keep an eye out for what the thermostat sees and closer to the plant, and dead center of growbox.

I'm sorry to be posting again, I sound like a hypocondriac and feeling kinda blue myself because If there is something wrong I'm definitely messing up my grow and my girl.

To make a long story short If I should post in sick forum I will.. you know, again..
I have some curling under of leaves. I just gave it pure h2o at 6.0ph 4 days ago. Nothing else really have changed. Except one day it dropped below 70F for a half hour or more and above 82F for roughly same time. All this was after the fact however. I also beleive these are not leaves effected by light issue I discussed. Some are lower on the plant and some are "newish" growth that didn't show it at the time.

In addition there is blue-/purple-ish discoloration from the ends and tips of leaves spreading inward (a little). I'm convinced its deficient. According to online sites it could be phosphate or potasium. Either way I need to know to post in sick section... you know again

If this is your thread man post your questions brother. You will never master this hidden art unless you learn and you need to ask questions to learn. The first thing i saw that you should adjust is the Ph balance. Try to keep it around 5 to 5.5 way better and it will make her happy. How much are you watering her? Those leaves could be be new growth, what do they look like because some of my leaves grow in a spiral first. Basically they look like a little green bowl. Post some pics so we can take a look at what ya got going on. I'd really like to help you, all bud needs a chance to be smoked or eaten.

water basically every week. Typically looking for drooping or yellowing. I resist the urge todo that (usually on 4-5 day) and wait two more to let her dry more. Its usually a cup of water/fert mix using well water. I can try lowering the ph a bit more. It was 6.5 or so at first... I'll see what can be done.

I've posted my most recent in the hospital section but I will update here:

For those counting:

2 months, 1 day since cutting
27 days since I flushed for first time
44 days since I transplanted.



since I have her (for the second time) in the hosptial (sick plant section) I don't have too much to say here.
She is still growing height wise but too much new growth. The preflowering is spreading up her trunk from bottom.
I'm waiting to see how she goes this week to either transplant, or do further affirmary action. She's getting 1/4
fert and just letting her show signs of problems or health from here.

I beleive I'm going to change water source and use epsom salts or molasses (blackstrap) to get cal/mag.
I will check in a week if she needs transplant to a larger pot.

Nights are steady on temperature and humidity. It warns me when it gets lower via buzzer. I also have monitor
in my room since the difference is typically a degree lower. I reconstructed the box, and finding if I have a usb
flex fan on my plant the rest can be done by 120MM fan quite easily. So I ended up unplugging one.

Oh, and I noticed some spiders in the box tonight (looks like common household spiders. I couldn't see one up close
because.... Well I have archiphobia and I had to just squish them. However they were large enough, they didn't look
like spider-mites.

Make sure you do keep the bugs and shit away they tend to be a nuisance. I would definitely invest on some more Ph balance nutrients and some calcium and magnesium nutrients. That might be what you problem is. It also could be the fact that your using well water but IDK. It would help a ton if you had some pictures to put up because any good grower on this site would be able to evaluate, diagnose and proscribe something that will alleviate all your problems.

I posted some pics in the sick plant section but I'll re-link them here tomorrow.
I definitely agree. I probably need some cal/mag. I heard epsom salts can work for mag or blackstray molasses for either. Kinda wish I had better soil to, but will next time.

I hate spiders or I wouldn't mind too much. Course its best to keep it clean and tidy as well. keeping fingers crossed. Thankfully weed is a hardy plant