Newbie problem, help... please

Hey did anyone else realize that theres TWO different types of "grow big"?!?! one regular and one hydroponic, well guess which one i have... thats right the kind i didnt want lol. I just happen to pick up that pamphlet that came with the fox farms products and noticed in their "product line" two labels that looked the same, but upon further inspection i realized their different, one is light green/blue and one is darker green...

Problem is the soil type is 6-4-4 and the hydro type is 3-2-6...


See heres photos taken directly off their site.



hydro and soil... hey fox farms, you might wanna make your labels a little clearer... or maybe im the only one who did this and actually noticed.



Anyhow now im even more confused than before, should i continue on using the hydroponic type, or should i order the right stuff?

Yeah, I made same mistake with my first nutrient purchase, I ordered ionic hydroponic nutrient solution; and used it in peatmoss which is like a middle ground between soil and hydro I suppose; I try to keep pH at around 6.5 but peatmoss and the nutrients have my pH little lower then desired at times, will def be picking up a more even balanced solution, mine is 3-1-5 grow big :/

On the brands' website that I use, they have a asterisk next to the dosage instructions saying "cut dosage in half for soil amendment", I am not able to follow that recommendation for peatmoss, trying to keep pH in check for soil range and keep the plant from yellowing, at full dosage of hydro for the 3-1-5 the peatmoss plant I grew showed no signs of toxicity but just a few deficiencies and early on lost a bit of early veg foliage.

It was the main reason I was considering organic after the first time nutrient issues, but I think I might try getting a more balanced nutrient line like 10-10-10 slow release for whole grow instead.

Nodgman said:

Hey thanks for the reply, im using coco coir with perlite. Feeding fox farms. Honestly i dont think im over watering though, i water the big pots, once every other day and the small pots usually get water everyday, because they dry out pretty fast... My ph is probably on the lower end of the spectrum but its not too low. I had been spraying the foliage alot lately could that be it?

Again thanks for the reply!

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Still in Veg ah? and watering every other day? almost every plant i have grown only needed water about once a week while in Veg state, but i dont grow with coco so im just throwing out there my personal experience with using Fox Farms Ocean Forest, but again everything from 2 gallon pots to 5 gallons buckets ive only had to water once a week.

iblazetoomuch said:

Yeah, I made same mistake with my first nutrient purchase, I ordered ionic hydroponic nutrient solution; and used it in peatmoss which is like a middle ground between soil and hydro I suppose; I try to keep pH at around 6.5 but peatmoss and the nutrients have my pH little lower then desired at times, will def be picking up a more even balanced solution, mine is 3-1-5 grow big :/

On the brands' website that I use, they have a asterisk next to the dosage instructions saying "cut dosage in half for soil amendment", I am not able to follow that recommendation for peatmoss, trying to keep pH in check for soil range and keep the plant from yellowing, at full dosage of hydro for the 3-1-5 the peatmoss plant I grew showed no signs of toxicity but just a few deficiencies and early on lost a bit of early veg foliage.

It was the main reason I was considering organic after the first time nutrient issues, but I think I might try getting a more balanced nutrient line like 10-10-10 slow release for whole grow instead.

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hey man you were having yellowing issues from your ph you said? Was it similar looking to my problem? No right? Your talking about the whole plant turning yellow right?

Pop The Trunk said:

Still in Veg ah? and watering every other day? almost every plant i have grown only needed water about once a week while in Veg state, but i dont grow with coco so im just throwing out there my personal experience with using Fox Farms Ocean Forest, but again everything from 2 gallon pots to 5 gallons buckets ive only had to water once a week.

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Thanks for the reply, and yeah still in veg looking to start flowering within the next week so i wanna make sure the plants structural system is in good shape before I start. The pots I'm using are only about a gallon. I also have two big fans on them to blow them around, which also drys them out some... I just transplanted the two smaller skunk plants to 3 gallon pots,about 3 days ago and in those pots I haven't had to water since and probably have another day before it needs watering. Yeah this will likely be my one and only soil grow as I'm currently building a bubbleponics set up.

Nodgman said:

hey man you were having yellowing issues from your ph you said? Was it similar looking to my problem? No right? Your talking about the whole plant turning yellow right?

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Yeah my issue was not similar to yours much, Didn't have any issues with spots like what your plant is experiencing, just yellowing typical of nitrogen deficiency or lockout, or some other nutrient imbalance/pH problem. Still working on it tbh.

The first three look like a different problem than the last one. I think the first three look like water burn. Excessive drops of water on leaves that don't dry right away can create hot spots on your leaves. The sun literally heats the water up until it burns your plants. Are you foliar feeding or have they been out in the rain?

The last one, however, looks like nothing to worry about YET. If it spreads or gets worse it could be a larger problem.

Just my .02 cents.

lamopa said:

The first three look like a different problem than the last one. I think the first three look like water burn. Excessive drops of water on leaves that don't dry right away can create hot spots on your leaves. The sun literally heats the water up until it burns your plants. Are you foliar feeding or have they been out in the rain?

The last one, however, looks like nothing to worry about YET. If it spreads or gets worse it could be a larger problem.

Just my .02 cents.

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thanks for the reply, I have been foliar feeding. But I have since stopped.

Hey I don't think anyone answered my question regarding the hydroponic grow big, and I don't wanna open a new thread for the same problem. So, can anyone tell me, should I not use the hydro grow big or do you think it's okay to use in coco coir?

Sorry to reply so late. The issue with coco is that it has no nutrients. This means that newbies will have to measure out their nutrients will is a huge task for them. Honestly, coco/hydro isn't that much different. As you can tell I also don't beleive that newbies should start in hydro. I've read many threads of newbies in coco/hydro and literally about 1/10 have success. If it is your first grow, just grow a plant in soil and don't try to do all advanced techniques. Get maybe 3 soil grows in before playing with anything else.

I agree with BB, I started in pro mix peatmoss and its much the same as coco with having to supply all nutrients to plant, I guess they are semi-hydro basically? It's been a nightmare trying to get it right on first time grow with nutrient dosages of TSP dilution.

Nodgman said:

Hey did anyone else realize that theres TWO different types of "grow big"?!?! one regular and one hydroponic,
Problem is the soil type is 6-4-4 and the hydro type is 3-2-6...

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i would have mentioned that but i never knew the ratios were that much different. that means within the last few years , they have had 3 different bottles of grow big!
they have "instant GB" for "soil" , GB for "soil" and now your showing me this "hydro GB" for "hydro". thats grounds for impeachment.

basically , the 2 you showed are both the same "instant" food. whats not the same though is those ratios. coco already has a lil K in it from the store.... so doubling the K in your food is bad. you never want double the k (compared to N) in any medium, specially NOT in a "veg food" ...... your plant needs a big dose of N, period. get the 6-4-4 (or a bottle of strait N for issues like this)

i HATE your pot. fuck them thangs...... i just found out its hard to overwater coco , but your pot is the one way to assure you can over do it. you dont want your medium sittin in that runoff at all. i know you waste a lot of food that way but its your only choice. if you dont let it run off , a lot of food will build up on the bottom an rot your girl an your soil.

iblazetoomuch said:

Yeah, I made same mistake with my first nutrient purchase, I ordered ionic hydroponic nutrient solution; and used it in peatmoss which is like a middle ground between soil and hydro I suppose; I try to keep pH at around 6.5 but peatmoss and the nutrients have my pH little lower then desired at times, will def be picking up a more even balanced solution, mine is 3-1-5 grow big :/

the peatmoss plant I grew showed no signs of toxicity but just a few deficiencies and early on lost a bit of early veg foliage.

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peat moss will cause a lot of problems as time passes..... the ph of peat is too low (around 5) so they put lime in their to buffer the ph out, but the lime only last so long , then your back to a very low ph. your food is fine , your peat is not letting the plant eat it. plus the peat your using is not inert.... it does have a little food in it from the fac. (not much) add some soil to your peat and you wont have any more N defs.
dont worry bout the ph of your liquid , cause that cant change the ph of the soil/coco/peat. that only works in hydro rocks. if you are using some too much peat right now an you need a quick fix then add some lime to the top an water it in real good. (fix will not be as quick as you want)

lamopa said:

The first three look like a different problem than the last one. I think the first three look like water burn. Excessive drops of water on leaves that don't dry right away can create hot spots on your leaves. The sun literally heats the water up until it burns your plants. Are you foliar feeding or have they been out in the rain?
The last one, however, looks like nothing to worry about YET. If it spreads or gets worse it could be a larger problem.
Just my .02 cents.

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all his plants have issues , an no the sun does not heat the water up to burn the leaf. the sun will use the water as a magnifying glass to burn your leaf , but this shit rarely ever happens. fans an dry air prevent that.

iblazetoomuch said:

I agree with BB, I started in pro mix peatmoss and its much the same as coco with having to supply all nutrients to plant, I guess they are semi-hydro basically? It's been a nightmare trying to get it right on first time grow with nutrient dosages of TSP dilution.

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peat is wanna be soil. coco is an inert medium but the both have a ph that they stay at, as to where hydros ph is where you put it. any good food with all the micronutes is fine for both peat or coco. food is food, all are the same ..... some organic , some chems ....still the same till it gets to the ratios.




soil

I will switch in some soil next grow tnx, never got to try dilution of nutrient feed into peatmoss anyway as unforseen circumstances forced the grow to end early. Looking forward to next year.

iblazetoomuch said:

I will switch in some soil next grow tnx, never got to try dilution of nutrient feed into peatmoss anyway as unforseen circumstances forced the grow to end early. Looking forward to next year.

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soory bout that...... best of luck next year!!!!!




soil

wyteboi said:

soory bout that...... best of luck next year!!!!!




soil

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Thanks, I've been told it was peatmoss pH issues and recommended to buy hydrated lime as well as dolomite, I think the only reason it grew relatively decent size at 5'5 without loosing all its newer foliage is because the feed was pH'd and would put peatmoss close to pH of water until it dried out, seems to make more sense in hindsight now but I was recommended to get dolomite lime to add in months ago, as well as hydrated lime more recently in a few of the threads I made, would have probably saved me some frustration if I had purchased that early on in the grow but it was something I had taken second priority to assuming when I fed it the pH would always allow the peatmoss to buffer to that solution pH until it started to dry out.

I had noticed pH at 5.7 of topsoil, which was a crude test with cheap meter but didn't fluctuate much, and the 6.4 solution was still pretty soggy throughout the promix peatmoss I was testing, it was not dry. I get why it was lowering itself now, initially I assumed the promix would rise in pH like a soil would become alkaline as it dries out; which was confusing but didn't really understand promix wasn't really soil, but a amendment to soil, plus I had not taken into account lime buffering to 7, or its loss of buffering over time.

lol promix isn't exactly first grower friendly as a soil would be, I guess.

Hey guys, thanks for all the help, I think it was a combination of things that were wrong. Under feeding, over watering, pot bound, ph, and spraying with the lights on and not raised up. Since fixing the issues I've noticed a good bit of improvement. You can check out my journal to see recent photos. Just wanted to update everyone and say thanks


by the way Im continuing to use that hydroponic grow big, and it seems to be working.

Stick with coco and dont spray with the lights on. I swear by coco love it. I also use botanicare cns17 line.