No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

OregonMeds · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
The same things happen in socialist systems whether you choose to see it or not. Government exists through taxes, and you have no problem telling anyone that they need to pay more. When the government can't pay for eveything, which is inevitable, it leads to rationed care. The same people talking about how crazy bush was, and how much government influence he had, see nothing wrong with the same government taking even more power, taking even more economic and personal freedoms.

Thinking of this in terms of the government taking more power and taking away your economic and personal freedoms is completely wrong. You still have the personal freedom to drag yourself over to the for profit hospital instead. You still have the right to die in the street without care. You still have the right to opt out of the socialist system and be completely on your own so you loose nothing, but by fighting it and leaving us with this bullshit half ass thing proposed now you simply cheat the rest of us by not allowing any real change and just adding layers of government on top of the already broken system. When something doesn't work you fix it or you change it. It's a real shame so many people are so afraid of change and so entrenched in the lies they can't see the truth staring them right in the face.

People forget it's supposed to be us in charge of the government therefore it would be US in charge of health care decisions. In other countries they riot for their rights and maintain control. If their socialist health care systems tried to limit care the people get out in the streets and put their foot down and it works.

Here we don't do squat. We've created such an opressive police and justice system specifically so that things like that don't happen here, and in return we cheated ourselves yet again.

londonfog · Nov 23, 2009

medicineman said:
Just for your info, I worked long and hard, got some edumacation, 2 years higher ed. Being educated does not make one wise, you are the prime example. BTW I am a vet also, Nam.

Medi have I ever told you how awesome you are :bigjoint:

CrackerJax · Nov 23, 2009

Guess you didn't read the part about being fined if you opt out of the public plan.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

OregonMeds said:
Thinking of this in terms of the government taking more power and taking away your economic and personal freedoms is completely wrong. You still have the personal freedom to drag yourself over to the for profit hospital instead. You still have the right to die in the street without care. You still have the right to opt out of the socialist system and be completely on your own so you loose nothing, but by fighting it and leaving us with this bullshit half ass thing proposed now you simply cheat the rest of us by not allowing any real change and just adding layers of government on top of the already broken system. When something doesn't work you fix it or you change it. It's a real shame so many people are so afraid of change and so entrenched in the lies they can't see the truth staring them right in the face.

People forget it's supposed to be us in charge of the government therefore it would be US in charge of health care decisions. In other countries they riot for their rights and maintain control. If their socialist health care systems tried to limit care the people get out in the streets and put their foot down and it works.

Here we don't do squat. We've created such an opressive police and justice system specifically so that things like that don't happen here, and in return we cheated ourselves yet again.

You're wrong. You have no choice, you must have healthcare. If not you can be fined and jailed. This is doing nothing but letting the government make choices that they have no right to make. telling people how much they need to pay, even if they want nothing to do with it. So if a healthy, old rich guy decided he doesn't want healthcare, the government is going to force him to pay, when he would probably get his care privately anyways. No one has the right to tell others what to do with their incomes, but you seem to think differently. Socialized medicine was created after ww2, and was never meant to be implemented for as long as it has, and that is why it's failing. No one seems to comment when I mention government grocery stores, government clothing stores, etc. If this is passed you can make an argument that food, shelter, clothing, that those are all rights also. Then the government will nationalize those parts of our economy. Eventually we will have a completely nationalized country, where there are no sectors of the economy gaining profits, with the citizens subjegated to destruction and misery. The government is here to protect the people, they have no constitutional right to nationalize any sector of our economy. The power is in the peoples hands, and the American people do not want this, every poll shows it.

medicineman · Nov 23, 2009

CrackerJax said:
Guess you didn't read the part about being fined if you opt out of the public plan.

I don't like it, but if all the healthy people didn't pay, how would you cover the unhealthy? BTW FYI, I have no dog in this hunt. I have VA and Teamsters excellent medical, I'm about the uninsured and underinsured. All those that have been denied for whatever reason. It is criminal to allow the INS. companies to pick and choose, one byproduct of this is higher rates, less people in the pool, higher per person coverage. Believe me, If I had my way, those insurance companies and HMOs would be long gone.

OregonMeds · Nov 23, 2009

CrackerJax said:
Guess you didn't read the part about being fined if you opt out of the public plan.

I wouldn't care what it says about that because I only care about getting on the public plan. But to be fair that's not how it works you would only be in trouble if you opt out AND don't have your own AND don't get a waiver.

Follow the rules and you can still do anything you like, it just forces YOU to sign off with the waiver. Big deal... Please don't exaggerate. If you don't want to be forced to sign a waiver fine then say that, but don't claim problems to be more than they really are.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

medicineman said:
I don't like it, but if all the healthy people didn't pay, how would you cover the unhealthy? BTW FYI, I have no dog in this hunt. I have VA and Teamsters excellent medical, I'm about the uninsured and underinsured. All those that have been denied for whatever reason. It is criminal to allow the INS. companies to pick and choose, one byproduct of this is higher rates, less people in the pool, higher per person coverage. Believe me, If I had my way, those insurance companies and HMOs would be long gone.

What is criminal is the government dictating how private companies operate. Like I said before, grocery stores make profits, clothing stores make profits, whether you are renting or buying a house, those people make profits. Should the government step in and tell those people how to run their businesses? Without profit, businesses can't stay open, and there is no incentive for any new businesses to open.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

OregonMeds said:
I wouldn't care what it says about that because I only care about getting on the public plan. But to be fair that's not how it works you would only be in trouble if you opt out AND don't have your own AND don't get a waiver.

Follow the rules and you can still do anything you like, it just forces YOU to sign off with the waiver. Big deal... Please don't exaggerate. If you don't want to be forced to sign a waiver fine then say that, but don't claim more than the truth.

Yeah you don't care what it involves, you just care about getting covered. You don't mind if somebody else has to pay for it, cause you don't have to. Let's just follow the rules that the government sets, there's nothing wrong with that. The people in government are so much smarter than everyone else, so lets do whatever they say.

londonfog · Nov 23, 2009

you either can waiver,get your own or join the plan...simple...but everyone needs health care..and at least I will know where some of my money is going..so Cracker what you going to do seeing how you don't have coverage now ?????

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

londonfog said:
you either can get your own or join the plan...simple...but everyone needs health care..and at least I will know where some of my money is going..so Cracker what you going to do seeing how you don't have coverage now ?????

That's the point, YOU MUST HAVE HEALTHCARE. according to the government. You don't see anything wrong with that? Next we must have tvs, and we must listen to BIG BROTHER every day. Come on now.

londonfog · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
That's the point, YOU MUST HAVE HEALTHCARE. according to the government. You don't see anything wrong with that? Next we must have tvs, and we must listen to BIG BROTHER every day. Come on now.

Hey guy I pay car and boat insurance..home owners, and my business is insured...I hate it but I know if something happens I'm covered....and I have to get them all ( and they are getting rid of plasma tv )

medicineman · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
What is criminal is the government dictating how private companies operate. Like I said before, grocery stores make profits, clothing stores make profits, whether you are renting or buying a house, those people make profits. Should the government step in and tell those people how to run their businesses? Without profit, businesses can't stay open, and there is no incentive for any new businesses to open.

Look, I want the doctors and medical staff to be paid their worth, I just want the ripoff insurers and HMOs to go away. They do nothing to promote health. All they do is funnel the money and take a large share for non-medical profits. If you can't agree with this, then you must be one of them. All your paranoia about a government takeover is simply that, paranoia.

londonfog · Nov 23, 2009

Jack I'm more concerned about my government telling me I can't smoke weed/ or having a hobby of growing a plant....

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

I'm young and healthy, I eat healthy, and I workout. I don't need insurance, and I don't need the government telling me I need insurance. Do you not see anything wrong with the draft? We need to secure our freedoms, so everyone must join the military, if the government says, the citizen does.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

medicineman said:
Look, I want the doctors and medical staff to be paid their worth, I just want the ripoff insurers and HMOs to go away. They do nothing to promote health. All they do is funnel the money and take a large share for non-medical profits. If you can't agree with this, then you must be one of them. All your paranoia about a government takeover is simply that, paranoia.

And where would these companies aquire the funds to advance technology, find new cures? If they never made any profit, they would have never made any progress.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

londonfog said:
Jack I'm more concerned about my government telling me I can't smoke weed/ or having a hobby of growing a plant....

And you see nothing wrong with the government telling you what you MUST do? Having the government take out the choice, takes freedoms away.

medicineman · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
And where would these companies aquire the funds to advance technology, find new cures? If they never made any profit, they would have never made any progress.

Government grants, Geeze, do you not know anything? Most new things are found in universities with government grants.

Jack*Herrer420 · Nov 23, 2009

medicineman said:
Government grants, Geeze, do you not know anything?

You mean higher taxes, yeah that makes sense.

londonfog · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
And you see nothing wrong with the government telling you what you MUST do? Having the government take out the choice, takes freedoms away.

yeah I do.... but I still smoke and I still grow plants as a hobby...so they took nothing away

medicineman · Nov 23, 2009

Jack*Herrer420 said:
You mean higher taxes, yeah that makes sense.

Look Jack, there will be a tax for single payer, that's a given. With all the money the government saves on you young healthy guys, they will invest in technology and medical innovation. They already do in grants to universities where most new things are found. Profits mainly go to shareholders and overpaid CEOs.

No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

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