Node stretching during flower? Only top colas, too much light, N or ???

So many diff oppinions...Who do you listen to... this guy says cloudy with a few amber is best.... others say 50/50 is the best who the fux knows i guess its all about your needs


P.S have yet to find someone who doesn't want amber trichs......

Hey brick top...Love those post you do so professional and well researched. I harvest with a few amber one because I like to get stoned and have little use for pain and hunger relief. That being said...I think you should harvest throughout your grow till you find what kinda high and feeling you get from a strain. I keep a journal of strains and harvest times and the high and feeling I get from the strain. It takes time to dial in your taste for what you like. Good luck and I think that one you asked about 2 weeks left. Just from looking at the picture. Later

GreenLight said:

Thank you I did not know that in order to higher CBDs you would be sacrificing the THC.

I might keep some girls around longer to keep as a personal medical stash. CBDs may not give the same buzz but they have been said to work better for medical pruposes.

Good reading

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You won't be increasing CBD, you will be increasing CBN. Amber trichomes are a sign of oxidized THC that has turned into CBN. Amber is not a sign of increased CBD. If you want high CBD you need to purchase a strain that is high in CBD ... and that is getting to be difficult thanks to breeders only trying to create Mr. Toad's Wild Ride for recreational users for so long They have almost totally bred CBD out of most strains.

If you want truly high percentages of CBD you will have to accept low levels of THC but allowing THC to oxidize and turn into CBN will not get you the same medicinal properties of CBD. Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than the more recreational type strains, which are bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.

Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
June 15, 2010

A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1.


Willets, Calif., physician William Courtney, M.D., said that marijuana with high levels of cannabidiol (CBD) seems to have the most medical potential; ironically, CBD levels seem to be lowest in marijuana strains of the plant that are highest in THC -- the main psychoactive substance in marijuana.


"What has happened is, almost all strains available in America through the black market are THC concentrates," said Ethan Russo, senior medical adviser to GW Pharmaceuticals, which is developing the marijuana-based pain medication Sativex. "The CBD in almost all cases has been bred out. The reason is cannabis in this country has been cultivated for its intoxicating effect."

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Why Modern Medical Cannabis Strains have Minimal CBD
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Sam the Skunkman says that nearly all modern cannabis is pretty much CBD-free or the levels are so low as to be miniscule, landrace indicas are the way to go.

Right now there's simply no strains available where cbd will make up more than 2% of the overall cannabinoids (.5% of the flower weight) and no way of cultivating a noticeably higher cbd content. For the most part conversion of cbg into cbd is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts cbg into thc. For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of Cbd and Thc. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little thc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little Cbd.

While it is true that afghani landraces can have a high cbd content. Since having a Bd gene will replace half of the thc content with cbd seed companies always remove the Bd allele from the gene pool in order to maximize thc potency and stay competitive.

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The Blue-Ribbon Plant

The plant richest in CBD is a “True Blueberry/OG Kush” cross grown in the mountains south of Yreka by Wendell Lee of Full Spectrum Genetics (not to be confused with the lab in Colorado). Dried buds of TB/OGK have been sent for testing on four occasions by Harborside, the dispensary with which Lee is associated. Samples were consistently found to contain about 10% CBD (with THC levels around 6 to 7%). On the only occasion that a crop grown outdoors by Lee was tested by Steep Hill lab, it was found to contain 13.9% CBD.
Two other labs have confirmed the CBD content of Lee’s TB/OGK.


Lee is now working to “stabilize the genetics” and produce TB/OGK seeds. Several plants he provided to Project CBD (a nonprofit organized by writer/activist Martin Lee to promote research) are being grown out by experienced hands. Processed medicine and clones will be available at dispensaries in the months ahead. Details will be available on ProjectCBD.com, a website that will be launched by mid-August, according to Martin Lee (no relation to Wendell)






The California strain richest in CBD proportionally, “Women’s Collective Stinky Purple,” tested at 9.7% CBD and 1.2% THC. It was brought to Harborside by Grower #1 who also grows a strain called “Cotton Candy/Diesel” that was found to contain about 6% CBD and 6% THC. Grower #1 gets her starter plants from friends in Northeastern Mendocino County. Is there something in the genome of plants that have been swapped over the years by growers in those hills that encourages expression of CBD?
Another strain containing more than 8% CBD, grown indoors in the East Bay, was brought to Harborside in late April. “Omrita Rx3” is the name the grower has given it after learning that it was of special interest to SCC doctors.
A few weeks later a strain called “Harlequin” was found to contain about 8% CBD. And soon thereafter a pound of “Jamaican Lion” tested at 8.9% CBD. Clones of these strains are being grown out and will be available through Harborside and Project CBD in the months ahead, along with the Soma A+ that was first to be identified.


Pineapple Thai (5% CBD, 2.4% THC) is being grown out by Herbal Solutions in Long Beach.

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Hey brick top,
Isn't it true that as thc oxidizes and cbn goes up that cbd goes up to in an ripe plant. I understand what your saying about the genes but I must ask how those genes came into play in the first place? I know that seeding plant produce more of these cannabinoids when they switch from defense to reproduction. The reason most grow sensimilla for thc production and low antagonist cannabinoids. From my understanding that high thc production lowers cbd or cannabiniol and this is why we don't see this in early ripe plants but as thc levels deminish and cbn rise that cbd production goes up as do the other cannabinoids. And yes I do understand that this is no where near the levels Project cbd is going. Anyway just a question Good growing And enjoy Mr. Toad's wild ride...lol

Well thanks guys for all the info for harvesting but since Im so far from that still can any of you tell me if you believe this strain will go for 8-9 or 10-11 weeks?
The description for this seed says 56 days (8 weeks) but you never know.

I know its kind of hard to be able to tell only 30 days into flower, but I am worried as some people have said that the girls only look 3 weeks in.

And back to the original question does anyone know what would cause the weird growth toward the top? I know that small one bladers are normal coming out of the buds themselves but it looks to me like the top of the main colas vegged out further with weird 3 blades and then started to flower again. So as strange as this sounds the top of the main colas look a week behind the buds right below them and a week behind the colas around the main one.

I suspect if this was reveging or because of light leaks it would affect all of the buds, not just the very top of the main colas. I have another table that is 10 days behind these 2, if I can stop whatever I did wrong now the other table will not be affected.

Any suggestion or opinions are greatly appreciated.

Icannabis said:

Isn't it true that as thc oxidizes and cbn goes up that cbd goes up to in an ripe plant.

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CBD does doe up in a, "ripe plant" BUT what most growers believe to be a "ripe plant" is actually an over-ripe plant. The fake couch-lock from increased levels of CBN has caused growers to believe what they actually got was increased levels of CBD. Glands most active in secretion (mature) are translucent in appearance, aged glands are yellow in appearance and senescent (old) glands are brown in color. Mature glands possessed the highest content of their major cannabinoid in both the fiber and drug strains. Senescent glands possessed low levels of cannabinoids.

I understand what your saying about the genes but I must ask how those genes came into play in the first place?

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Both THC and CBD from from the same precursor, that being CBG. The biosyntheses of THC, cannabidiol (CBD), and cannabichromene (CBC) (or tetrahydrocannabivarin [THCV], cannabidivarin [CBDV], or cannabichromavarin [CBCV]) are controlled by a suite of three enzymes, each controlled by a single allele: T, D, and C, respectively. The three enzymes can likely use either propyl CBGV or pentyl CBG for the propyl and pentyl pathways, depending on which substrate is available. This hypothesis was verified by Flachowsky et al.. Continued research by de Meijer et al. has shown that CBD and THC biosynthesis are controlled by a pair of co-dominant alleles, which code for isoforms of the same synthase, each with a different specificity for converting the common precursor CBG into either CBD or THC.

The allele to produce CBD has been pretty much bred out of modern crosses resulting in less CBD being produced in glandular trichome heads and 'aging them,' allowing plants, and glandular trichome heads, to grow past the point of peak potency will not overcome the lack of the needed allele to produce increased levels of CBD and other cannabinoids will not transform into CBD with additional time/aging.

From my understanding that high thc production lowers cbd or cannabiniol and this is why we don't see this in early ripe plants but as thc levels deminish and cbn rise that cbd production goes up as do the other cannabinoids.

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While I am sure you meant what you said a bit different than it read, it is not increased production of THC that lowers CBD production but instead the breeding out of the allele that would create higher levels of CBD, but that would then come at the cost of lower levels of THC since more CBG would be more equally 'split' between the production of both cannabinoids.

With the missing allele, due to modern breeding, CBD cannot increase with age. The effects of the amount that is made will seem more 'potent' due to decreased levels of THC that has been lost when it oxidizes, but in the case of medicinal users they are not actually getting increased percentages/levels of CBD. That in combination of increased levels of CBN will make it appear there is more CBD, but CBN does not give the same effects and when it comes to medicinal users it does not have the same medicinal values.

And yes I do understand that this is no where near the levels Project cbd is going. Anyway just a question Good growing And enjoy Mr. Toad's wild ride...lol

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For someone who just enjoys strains that are higher in CBD one that is claimed to be very high in CBD is Cannatonic from Resin Seeds. But what I think what we find ourselves dealing with when it comes to many breeder claims for cannabinoid levels is something that they can get away with due to there being no truth in advertising laws about cannabis strains. Not that they all flat out lie, but instead because there are different ways to determine cannabinoid percentages and they will pick and choose between the two the percentage figures that best suit their marketing needs.

Check out the claims for Cannatonic, THC and CBD percentages, and then check out the test analysis for it from an independent lab.


Cannatonic Feminised Resin Seeds


The best of both worlds, a phenotype selected from the hybrid corss between a female MK Ultra(F1) & the all time famous G13 Haze male. Grows like an Indica, smells like a Sativa and renders you... Cannatonic! Genetics: MK-Ultra x G13 Haze Indica/Sativa: 50/50 THC: 20-25% FLOWERING: Interior 9-10 weeks / Exterior October Yield: Interior 500 gr per m2 / Exterior 250-400 gr per plant


The strain is advertised as having; "THC: 20-25%" but the test results below seem to say something different.

CBD and THC levels were very close to being equal. The test results for THC were no where near the 20% to 25% breeder claims.

What we seem to be faced with is somewhat similar in how the test procedure for THC percentage levels in the 60's and the 70's was later changed resulting in what appeared to be a major increase in THC percentages when in fact what actually changed was what was factored out of the former testing procedure resulting in much higher THC percentages.

There are both calculated active cannabinoid tests and relative ratio cannabinoid tests. Here is an example of how they results differ.

Super Lemon Haze:



Calculated Active Cannabinoids

CBD:
0.63%

CBN:
0.27%

THC:
23.98%

CBC:
0%

THCV:
0%






Relative Ratio Cannabinoids

CBD:
0.25

CBN:
0.11

THC:
9.64

CBC:
0

THCV:
0





Kushage is a strain known to be high in CBD.


Calculated Active Cannabinoids

CBD:
9.55%

CBN:
0.13%

THC:
4%

CBC:
0%

THCV:
0%






Relative Ratio Cannabinoids

CBD:
6.98

CBN:
0.1

THC:
2.92

CBC:
0

THCV:
0





Here is an example of an 'extract' called Purple Cotton.


Calculated Active Cannabinoids

CBD:
2.57%

CBN:
0.84%

THC:
67.23%

CBC:
0%

THCV:
0%






Relative Ratio Cannabinoids

CBD:
0.36

CBN:
0.12

THC:
9.52

CBC:
0

THCV:
0





Now all that is not about the relationship between THC and CBD alone but is is evidence of varying sets of test results and how it is clear that breeders will pick and choose the results from one type of test or comparative or another to better market their strain by making it sound or appear to be more whats someone might want to spend their money on.

Cannatonic claims 20% to 25% THC and while it is not listed above it is claimed to be have high levels of CBD, some claims simply state equal or nearly equal levels of THC and CBD, which could lead someone to believe the CBD percentage would be between s0% and 25% but the test results were evidently from a relative ratios test and the CBD and THC percentages came in at 6.92% and 6.2% in one test and at 6.58% and 5.9% in another.

Based on that Cannatonic can be claimed to possess practically or nearly percentages of THC and CBD, but Resin Seeds will still advertise 20% to 25% THC rather than the practically or nearly equal 6.2% and 5.9% for THC that would then make the claims of practically or nearly equal percentages of THC and CBD accurate.

You can also see why Super Lemon Haze uses the calculated active cannabinoids figure for THC percentages because 23.98% sounds a whole lot more impressive than the relative ratios cannabinoids THC percentage of 9.64%

Between what is not understood by some or not fully understood by some or not understood at all by some, and the leeway in marketing/advertising claims that exists, going all the way back to the altering of the testing procedure for THC percentages, most, if not all, percentages given for marketing and advertising purposes are pretty much highly questionable and at best only slightly reliable.


Sorry for what might seem like a great deal of extraneous but a good sativa gets my mind thinking and it begins a chain thought process where one thing is linked to another and then to another .... I guess in a way like a bunch of drunk and stoned frat guys can start rating girls tits and before the end of the conversation they have worked in cars and motorcycles and the existence or non-existence of a higher being.

As the ramblings pour out they all seem to make sense and all seem connected at the time ... though to someone listening in, or later reading, things might appear to be rather disconnected.

20% of the final crop is produced in the last 2 weeks.

Brick top , will get back to you in a year when i figure all that out!!! , i know where im coming for info when im stuck =D

Thanks brick top professional as always. I don't believe the seed companies claims. That's like believing the car salesman and not the mechanic. That's why I keep records of the effects of each strain I've grown. I'd love to look at your records brick top. I didn't bring CBG or CBC into question because the answer isn't a simple one on the roles they play...meaning there isn't enough research. I read a paper on cannabinoids a couple years back. And it named two different genes that come into play at certain times. To production CBD and THC I'll have to dig it up. I do believe it stated that THC metabolism is affected by CBD. And A high ratio between the two is not desirable. But you've researched it more than me I'm just a toad...I feel for medical users but as long as people think THC is god and CBD is the little bother nothing is going to change. Thanks for answering my question in plain english Good growing

Well if anyone was curious about the actual topic of this thread after posting on THC farmer I got some very good advice.

Because the colas that were closest to the light metabolize faster they were showing nutrient problems before any others would. I do in fact have too much nitrogen as I had continued to add calmag after the problems were gone, the leaves are much too dark green for this stage. My PH should be at 5.8 and this is why the extra foliage up top from the N is also retarded a bit.

I have yet to figure out if the overdose of N during flower will cause the yield to be diminished or just take longer to ripen.

Thcfarmer rocks

Agreed

At very least my thread wasnt hijacked and then ignored.

colebz said:

Thcfarmer rocks

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bloomfields said:

i get this alot from my uk cheese clones , its like the top of the buds shoot new growth , its normal and will have no ill effect , i wouldnt worry , im sure others have seen this , when i first saw it i almost believed my plant was turning herm!! but nahh

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Is this the same thing your talking about? All of my plants look like the healthy normal one except the one that's growing weird.