NOOB HELP ( flowering stage ) all stems are turning purple including the main stem !!

Alpha492 said:

Don't know how much experience you have but BE CAREFUL DURING A FLUSH. If your new the signals your plant will give you after a flush will be confusing.

I would flush right before your lights come on so evaporation is maximized. It's likely your plants will droop in a way that would normally indicate under-watering. However this is just because the small hairs along the plants roots that absorb water get damaged during a flash.

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Um most root hairs are firmly anchored in soil and futher so by the symbiotic relationship of certain funghis plus thats a real hard flush to accomplish in a pot that size not only due to density of soil but also due to getting it into the bath-tub to actually flush. Root hair damage would be more down to poor 'Soil Aggregate' and topsoil layers.

Personally 3x the amount of water is not considered a correct flush but only when the pH of the water in is the same as the water out or very close but at this point your left adding back some of the nutrients you flushed out of the soil so the plant basically dosent start and soil life can kick off again. I like to flush at pH 7 and wait till runoff is similar but there are those that would prefer to flush at between pH 6.3 to 6.8. Flushing 3x the amounts of water purpose is merely to lower or aleviate the built up nutrient problem.

Are you sure you actually need to flush here in this situation and other cultural or environmental factors arent the reason or original reason for the plant problems?

Some growers actually devised a sort of way based on the original water in pH and runoff pH based against the ppm of the runoff as a way of determining soil salt levels and the actual need to flush. If pH was low and ppm readings high in runoff when watered with pH7 plain water then flush away otherwise the problems lie elsewhere.

Id be more confident to actually flush if i had better drainage in that soil like perlite, this makes it a bit easier for the water to flow through it. Peace

aiight guys so im back online .. check it out .. i did the flush and its been a few days since ..the soils drying up nicely , doesnt seem drenched at all and the plant hasnt drooped down any or even acted differently .. but now i have a ph of just about 7 .. how do i lower it or is 7 ok ? and as far a nuit ive got 2 different ones ( 8-14-9 and 10-15-10 ) which should i use. still waiting on the soil to dry fully before using anything or even adding the molasses like prev person suggested.. what do u guys think ?

abnormal said:

aiight guys so im back online .. check it out .. i did the flush and its been a few days since ..the soils drying up nicely , doesnt seem drenched at all and the plant hasnt drooped down any or even acted differently .. but now i have a ph of just about 7 .. how do i lower it or is 7 ok ? and as far a nuit ive got 2 different ones ( 8-14-9 and 10-15-10 ) which should i use. still waiting on the soil to dry fully before using anything or even adding the molasses like prev person suggested.. what do u guys think ?

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get a ph lower kit and bring the water down to a ph of about 6.3 for soil, this is where the plants have maximum nute absorption. 7.0 will not harm them neccessarily, but it will waste alot of time to reach the same amount of growth as you would with ph being around 6.3. with the nutes and molasses definatly go ahead and start giving them, but with nutrients less is more sometimes, dont get to crazy on the first application after the flush. definatly monitor your PPM, it takes out virtually all guesswork

abnormal said:

aiight guys so im back online .. check it out .. i did the flush and its been a few days since ..the soils drying up nicely , doesnt seem drenched at all and the plant hasnt drooped down any or even acted differently .. but now i have a ph of just about 7 .. how do i lower it or is 7 ok ?

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Ph7 will be fine, most likely this will drop a little as the grow progresses, do not, i repeat do not mess with the pH anymore, it is unimportant except as a measure of excess ferts in the soil as is low pH. Forget changing the pH, what you need to do is re-establish the right feeding program with the right nutes, NPK 8-6-4 for veg and 4-8-6 for flower is generally accepted as ok so see how your nutes are more aimed at flowering.

Good luck and let her be now you done a flush, need to concentrate getting nutes back into the soil, the fact that she hasnt got any worse is a good sign. Peace

Kingrow1 said:

Ph7 will be fine, most likely this will drop a little as the grow progresses, do not, i repeat do not mess with the pH anymore, it is unimportant except as a measure of excess ferts in the soil as is low pH. Forget changing the pH, what you need to do is re-establish the right feeding program with the right nutes, NPK 8-6-4 for veg and 4-8-6 for flower is generally accepted as ok so see how your nutes are more aimed at flowering.

Good luck and let her be now you done a flush, need to concentrate getting nutes back into the soil, the fact that she hasnt got any worse is a good sign. Peace

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so in your opinion it wouldnt just be better to start watering them on the correct feeding program but with water that is at the best PH for soil (6.4)? im still relativley new to this but i feel like why throw ph to the wind? its easy and takes no extra steps to stagger it down and will help the plants absorb nutes. are you saying it will stress the plants more than neccessary to lower the ph at this point?

just tryin to understand where your comin from, thanks.

knourgro said:

so in your opinion it wouldnt just be better to start watering them on the correct feeding program but with water that is at the best PH for soil (6.4)? im still relativley new to this but i feel like why throw ph to the wind? its easy and takes no extra steps to stagger it down and will help the plants absorb nutes. are you saying it will stress the plants more than neccessary to lower the ph at this point?

just tryin to understand where your comin from, thanks.

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No problems, pH is a journey you should definatly take, research, question and believe nothing!!

Allow me to start you off with some basic pH questions and topics to peak your intrest -

a) Lime in your soil will actually raise pH very quickly and in my opinion dose the same job as pH up in that it will raise the soil pH to near pH7 and act as your pH soil buffer.

b) Are you growing in soil or water?? When you check your soil runoff you are actually checking what is stored in the soil rather than the actual soils pH, again are you growing in soil or water??

c) A CORRECT flush in my opinion is when the runoff water is the same pH as the water you are adding, only then will you have cleared your soil of what was changing the runoff in the first place and finally be able to check the actual soil pH and not soil pH+lots of salts and ferts.

Surely i cannot tell you what pH is neither to pH your ferts or not, i personally dont want to add the chemical pH up and downs to my soil as they arent the best things but put simply the day the lime charge in your soil runs out is the day you start having pH problems and not before. Deep down in the soil some microbes function through the action of no air and produce acidic compounds whilst some work to produce alkaline compounds.

PH is complicated sometimes but i like the simple theories and subscribe to the fact that the reason i like soil is because it takes a lot of the pH worries out of my grow, why use soil and lime if im gona freak over my ph?? Soil, alkaline lime and acidic ferts = nice plants to me. Read more and forget the myths, some techniques are more for hydro growing not soil.

The amazon rainforest is quite a big grow and yeilds lots, i dont see anyone adding pH up and down to that. Possibly if i used chem ferts id use pH up and down but that is another whole debate. Good luck with whatever you find out about pH and go buy some lime if your worrying about it. Peace

I really dont want to get into the higher realms of pH, some would like to attribute soil pH to covalent double electron bonds but little consideration is given to the formations of non reversible compounds at different pH's their effects on soil and combined net effect on pH and root absorbtion.

We can futher complicate this subject with soil microbes, drainage properties and soil funghi where it is noted that plant roots wouldnt work without these many many species of funghi which colonize the plants roots and eneable nutrient synthesis and uptake/exchange.

It is noted that under dense canopies such as rainforests that plants with next to no light manage to grow into very big strong trees even when in competition with much stronger neighbours and trees. Surely the soil funghi is providind nutrients from other trees to this small sapling under the low light otherwise it wouldnt be able to grow up to the canopy and gain acess to sunlight, species grow well next to their own kind for this reason.

I certainly write a lot for this site and threads, i rarely like to give advice more considerations for others to decide whats best. Should we really get into pH this much in soil grows, hydro growers simply pH their water and ferts in which the plant grows and dont have long discussions on pH. Know your media and adjust depending on pH of water and ferts rather than trying to keep it sweet by adjusting water and ferts! I have soil i know will hold pH for a few months and long enough to harvest in no matter what pH i throw at it, others dont but i think the difference would be the levels of lime in the soil and futher added buy the grower.

Water - Water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen hence the H and O in H2O! Now futher break this down and we get two Hydrogen molocules and one Oxygen molocule, simples.

Each molocule has a charge across its length, a dipole or net charge ,which we would refer to atomic bonding to understand fully, which translates to the fact that the positive Hydrogen molocule is attracted to the negative Oxygen molocule.

The Oxygen molocule forms loose bonds with the Hydrogen molocules proton whilst holding onto the electron enabling many Hydrogen molocules to swap their protons with suitably arranged Oxygen molocules creating a mixture of H30 and 0H which would be a simplified result of the meeting of two H20 molocules or that the proton from one H20 molocule was attracted to the Oxygen molocule of the next H20 meaning one H20 lost a proton and one H20 gained a proton or H20 + H20 = H30 + OH

Simply put the H30 we call Hydronium and the Oh we call Hydroxide (ions) and at any given time water contains a certain percentage of these which contribute to pH whereby the more Hydrogen the more acidic and the less H30 the more alkaline, balance them out and we get neutral. Because of the proton exchange the H30 becomes positive and the OH negative.

So we could say that an acidic substance is one that donates Hydrogen molocules and an alkaline one would be one that absorbs Hydrogen molocules by recombining them with OH to form H2O or water.

Water itself can react with itself to form H30 and OH but the reaction is quickly over and has a knock on effect so to say and is irrelevant to our field of study (ionization of water). Incedentally this is how ionized water is made.

Pure water has a concentration of 1 molocule per billion and can be writte as 1x10-7. Peace

This is in dedication of what happens if you get too hung up on pH.

Salt fertilizers Contrary to popular belief we actually feed our plants salts, salts of various compounds that contain the word Nitrogen or Potassium or Calcium. Now fertilizers have a pH and just the same as water it is dependant on the prescence of good old Hydrogen molocules as in previous posts. We add more and generally the pH of our water/fertilizer solution goes down etc etc.

Now not to screw with the norm but this really dosent correlate to the type of, for example, Nitrogen that might be held in the fertilizer of which there are three main varieties used-

Ammoniacal Nitrogen, written as NH4-N
Nitrate Nitrogen, written as NO3-N
Urea which we would consider a form of Amonical Nitrogen or NH4 and again split into NO3 and 2H+

So plant nutrient absorbtion is another three degrees at Oxford or Harvard and involves the ionic transfers within cells and metobolic utilization rates blah blah blah but basically put the plant roots spit out compounds to counter balance the compounds they want to or have to uptake (the plant didnt want to uptake all that nitrogen on purpose)

In the case of ammoniacal nitrogen it spits out positively (lets forget the positive and negative charge bit for ease of understanding) Hydrogen ions which as we saw with pH increase the acidity! Nitrate nitrogen uptake causes the plant to spit out OH and HCO3 bases which actually increase the soils alkalinity.

Simply put the type of nitrogen far out weighs the pH of the fertilizer solution but ontop of this due to the nitrogen cycle some types of bacteria actually cause the Amonical nitrogen to change to Nitrate nitrogen through nitrification and also involves Hydrogen ions being released into the soil. The result of the Amonical nitrogen being converted to Nitrate nitrogen through nitrification can release a lot more Hydrogen ions into the soil mixture than a solution of pH5 fertilizer. Peace

Now the Amonical nitrogen charge has to be worked out since it has no correlation with pH but more with the amount of Hydrogen ions it will release. Most if not all fertilizers are a combination of the two different types of nitrogen. Take if you will some common fertilizer salts -

Potassium Nitrate
Calcium Nirate
Ammonium Sulphate

We notice that we are acumulating some different nitrogen forms and percentages. Over time these will release Hydrogen ions into the soil or visa versa as said before in the last post. So we could try and cancel the Hydrogen ions out with the bases in our water making H2O from H and OH but we would have to calculate the nitrogen charge first in our Ammoniacal nitrogen.

Another way would be to use lime or Calcium Carbonate written as CaCO3. The Hydrogen (acidity) reacts with the CO3 or the carbonate part of the calcium carbonate to form CO2 and H2O.

Peace

I feel i have said enough on this already very complicated subject, hopefully enough to dispell a few myths but unfortunatly nowhere even enough to fully crack this subject, there are also other nutrient considerations, percentage of fertilizer vs NPK values, cation exchange capacities and base saturation rates etc etc etc etc Could basically go on for ever on the subject but i believe we should try to keep it simple.

If you have a reason to actually pH your water and ferts then by all means but i cannot find one unless you really want to get technical and do some fertilizer acidity equations and other such boring lab stuff that dosent equate to me growing some sh!t hot bud using simplified procedures and screw the technical dribble. Peace

I have same problems right now with my some plants thats are in flowering for 4 weeks ....
I c the small leafs are curling down
SHould I use flush?
Abnormalo u use flush?~
I now how to use flush and .... but in this age of my plants(5 weeks into flowering ) is that ok ?
I only have 12-12-36 nut what should i do?

Kingrow1 said:

No problems, pH is a journey you should definatly take, research, question and believe nothing!!

Allow me to start you off with some basic pH questions and topics to peak your intrest -

a) Lime in your soil will actually raise pH very quickly and in my opinion dose the same job as pH up in that it will raise the soil pH to near pH7 and act as your pH soil buffer.

b) Are you growing in soil or water?? When you check your soil runoff you are actually checking what is stored in the soil rather than the actual soils pH, again are you growing in soil or water??

c) A CORRECT flush in my opinion is when the runoff water is the same pH as the water you are adding, only then will you have cleared your soil of what was changing the runoff in the first place and finally be able to check the actual soil pH and not soil pH+lots of salts and ferts.

Surely i cannot tell you what pH is neither to pH your ferts or not, i personally dont want to add the chemical pH up and downs to my soil as they arent the best things but put simply the day the lime charge in your soil runs out is the day you start having pH problems and not before. Deep down in the soil some microbes function through the action of no air and produce acidic compounds whilst some work to produce alkaline compounds.

PH is complicated sometimes but i like the simple theories and subscribe to the fact that the reason i like soil is because it takes a lot of the pH worries out of my grow, why use soil and lime if im gona freak over my ph?? Soil, alkaline lime and acidic ferts = nice plants to me. Read more and forget the myths, some techniques are more for hydro growing not soil.

The amazon rainforest is quite a big grow and yeilds lots, i dont see anyone adding pH up and down to that. Possibly if i used chem ferts id use pH up and down but that is another whole debate. Good luck with whatever you find out about pH and go buy some lime if your worrying about it. Peace

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cool, i grow in soil and i do use basic chemical based ph up and down. i do like the sound of the lime instead though, i have to check and reestablish my ph every time i water with my curent method so i wouldnt mind a natural element that controls the work for me. thanks for all the info man, really helpful

NEVED , this is all new to me too but i ended up doing the flush anyway . i took into consideration what the other posters said and went from there. my plant was just about into the same weeks of flowering as yours but you have to understand my conditions may be different than yours. see my plant has been plenty hardy from the start , i ended up using a 11-35-15 fert not knowing the difference in what to use in what stage of growth but after reading what others said i am now using something more closer to what i need , 8-14-9 . read some of the older posts and i think you will better understand what i mean. now as far as my plant goes , its more of a waiting game for me . the flush hasnt effected her any and so far no other fan leaves have wilted or yellowed. im assuming the flush has stunt the growth sum and she is recovering .. now alls i have to to is establish a propper feeding schedule and things should get better. oh and before i forget (NEVED) i wouldnt flush just yet until you are sure that is the right thing for u because i read that leaves tend to yellow some and fall off durring the flowering stage so u might not really have a prob . im no expert but i would read into it more or ask around. mostlikely people would need more info about ur plant in order to help u out ..example : height , temp ,humidity ,feeding schedule , what areas is effecting your plant , and so on . hope all works out for you .. if you have anymore questions feel free to ask. oh and im not sure with the rules to this forum but you might have to start your own thread, im not sure if your suppose to just hop into one and beggin asking questions like this but dont quote me on anything cuz im new to this too ..

knourgro said:

cool, i grow in soil and i do use basic chemical based ph up and down. i do like the sound of the lime instead though, i have to check and reestablish my ph every time i water with my curent method so i wouldnt mind a natural element that controls the work for me. thanks for all the info man, really helpful

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My way is my way, trust nothing and believe no one instead try it all yourself and get your own way going, you asked and i wrote now go forth and make your plants multiply!

Water contains a lot of cal/mag for plants, know its levels and adjust for marijuana.
It took me a few grows to get lime and pH perfect but once there you never loose it.
Drainage is just as important, overwatered soil that stays damp promotes acidic conditions.

Good luck dude.

abnormal said:

NEVED , this is all new to me too but i ended up doing the flush anyway . i took into consideration what the other posters said and went from there. my plant was just about into the same weeks of flowering as yours but you have to understand my conditions may be different than yours. see my plant has been plenty hardy from the start , i ended up using a 11-35-15 fert not knowing the difference in what to use in what stage of growth but after reading what others said i am now using something more closer to what i need , 8-14-9 . read some of the older posts and i think you will better understand what i mean. now as far as my plant goes , its more of a waiting game for me . the flush hasnt effected her any and so far no other fan leaves have wilted or yellowed. im assuming the flush has stunt the growth sum and she is recovering .. now alls i have to to is establish a propper feeding schedule and things should get better. oh and before i forget (NEVED) i wouldnt flush just yet until you are sure that is the right thing for u because i read that leaves tend to yellow some and fall off durring the flowering stage so u might not really have a prob . im no expert but i would read into it more or ask around. mostlikely people would need more info about ur plant in order to help u out ..example : height , temp ,humidity ,feeding schedule , what areas is effecting your plant , and so on . hope all works out for you .. if you have anymore questions feel free to ask. oh and im not sure with the rules to this forum but you might have to start your own thread, im not sure if your suppose to just hop into one and beggin asking questions like this but dont quote me on anything cuz im new to this too ..

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Sounds good, a flush is hard to achieve, plants eat fertilizer salts so flush em all out and plants starve plus too much of one particular nute and you need to reduce only that but a flush is non selective, the ultimate goal is to never have to flush, give plants what they want when they want. Runoff ppm goes down over time cause the plants eat the salts, like a resovoir it needs refilling but if the plant needs more P/K than nitrogen and you feed more nitrogen then the end result is a build up, the wrong ferts can imbalance this very quickly.

Sometimes i would flush to reduce nute levels or sometimes i would flush to completely clean the soil and start again, imo 3x the pot size will simply reduce the nute levels and not clean the soil so is technically just getting good runoff not flushing. Incedentally getting good runoff from every watering and fertilizing is just as good as a flush every month and a lot less harsh on the plants and less time consuming, this is also my way. Peace

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neved , couple questions .. what kind of lighting are you using an what light cycle are your lights on ? and from what i can tell it seems like your plants are very tall from what i can see in the photos ,prob even taller than mine . how high did u set your lights originally ? the only reason i ask is because they seem farely far away , you think they are all getting enough light ? i know you can keep the lights like a foot from the tops. just a thought , but beautiful plants homie ... you still having the same prob with those leaves ? drooping down or curling ? , i believe is what u said ?

So I am growing outdoors and have a huge tree going . Strain is alien og grown in fox farm ocean soil I just started to notice some purple on smaller stems and some fan leaves stem starting from the top not real bad but u can see spots of purple wanting to show . Should I up the cal mag?

Zepiguru said:

So I am growing outdoors and have a huge tree going . Strain is alien og grown in fox farm ocean soil I just started to notice some purple on smaller stems and some fan leaves stem starting from the top not real bad but u can see spots of purple wanting to show . Should I up the cal mag?

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Wtf dude, zombie thread or what, try making one not resurrecting the dead!