Noob questions regarding cob/blurples

rkymtnman said:

what is your opinion on strips/qb vs cobs for canopy penetration??

i've got 6 80w cobs and i can still grow fairly tall plants without training them and get decent buds most of the way down the plant.

can strips/qbs do that? or are they better suited for sog/scrogs?

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People who've seen me post this before are probably sick of hearing it, but COBs don't provide better penetration than strips/boards. Most people have the impression that penetration is an effect of intensity, but it's diffusion that penetrates. Diffuse light can be achieved with strips, boards, or COBs - it just depends on fixture design. But - theoretically - in order for COBs to match the penetration of strips or boards, you would need many low-wattage COBs spread out over the canopy. Take a look at this article for reference.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4559655/

Rocket Soul said:

Tbh, im not sure 10 strips in a 4x2 at say around 300w would beat out 500w of blurples, when you basicly got the whole cannopy covered by light. Id think it would be fairly even. If you dont mind those 200 extra watts.
Butt you could probably run both your tents on 600watts of samsung leds. We used 4000 samsung lm561c over more or less 4x7, using maximum 750w and the amount of light blew us away. +1000ppfd and even coverage, with around +600 2feet down.
But a heavy red grow with a lot more wattage might be a better way to maximize your square foot.

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But why spend the money powering 500 watts of blurple, only to get a yield equal to 300 watts of strips? OP can return the blurples for a refund and come out ahead on all counts!

Humple said:

But why spend the money powering 500 watts of blurple, only to get a yield equal to 300 watts of strips? OP can return the blurples for a refund and come out ahead on all counts!

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Of course aswell. I dont know if op cares for the 200w. Basicly if OP cares for running some of these blurple spectrums in similar intensities as strips it costs him 200w.

White is great but sometimes even too good, we have to heat our spaces due to low total wattage. He got his temps on point.

Humple said:

People who've seen me post this before are probably sick of hearing it, but COBs don't provide better penetration than strips/boards. Most people have the impression that penetration is an effect of intensity, but it's diffusion that penetrates. Diffuse light can be achieved with strips, boards, or COBs - it just depends on fixture design. But - theoretically - in order for COBs to match the penetration of strips or boards, you would need many low-wattage COBs spread out over the canopy. Take a look at this article for reference.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4559655/

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took a quick glance at that article. very interesting. picture 1 of the tomatos in the greenhouse really shows the difference.

the bad part is i've still got pretty low mileage on my diy cobs so probably not gonna switch over anytime soon but i know what direction to take .

i guess i'm still stuck on the hps penetration chart that shows a 1K can do soemthing like 36" where a 600 can only do 24" (whatever the numbers are, they might be off). guess i have to change my thought process.
thanks!!

rkymtnman said:

what is your opinion on strips/qb vs cobs for canopy penetration??

i've got 6 80w cobs and i can still grow fairly tall plants without training them and get decent buds most of the way down the plant.

can strips/qbs do that? or are they better suited for sog/scrogs?

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Well I dont have any larf buds at all. I'd say strips can get nice penatration. I run a packed tent. And still have solid bud clear on the bottom.

very nice @whytewidow !

don't know if you've read that article that @Humple posted but it really explains the differene b/t diffuse and direct light.

so what do you have as far as lighting? and in what sized tent?

rkymtnman said:

very nice @whytewidow !

don't know if you've read that article that @Humple posted but it really explains the differene b/t diffuse and direct light.

so what do you have as far as lighting? and in what sized tent?

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No i havent read it yet. Going to when I get a little bit of extra time. I didn't know how long it was.

I have two flower tents. 2x4x5 and a 32"x32"x5' the 2x4 I have (10) fb562b strips in 3k on a HLG-320H-24B, (5) Samsung sunboards in 2700k 96 lm561c s6 bin diodes per strip run on a HLG-240H-24A driver. And 4 strips that I had custom made that have 120 diodes on each strip on copper pcb. Dual row. Alternated between 660NM HE PHOTO RED and FAR RED. To blend evenly. And the second tent I'm running (4) 4k fb562b's on a hlg-150h-24b and (3) 3k fb562b's on a hlg-120h-24a and two older 4k Cree cxa3050s run on a constant current 1800mA driver in parallel so each get 900mA @35.05vdc. Gonna replace them with other strips. And I just ordered 20 bridgelux Eb gen 2s to make one for veg tent.


Edit: appreciate the kind words

Edit again: I made my heatsinks. I used 2x2 thick walled square tubing. I cut them on 3 sides
Leaving one side uncut. Mounted the strips to the uncut side. And then I took either 45mmx45mm or 50mmx50mm pc fans i can't remember exact size they were. But they fit right inside the square tubing. Put them all on one end. And it blows through the tubing. Keeps them super cool. And the 4 red strips i had made, are running a meanwell LPV-60-12 driver.

Hey guys, OP here, I'm thinking maybe I'll go a little higher than 300watts LED, perhaps 400, a higher driver and then I can build my own custom LED strips down the line to add to it as well.

Question just to get me started before I do my more intense research: will 4k's be good for veg AND flowering? Or should I get a mix of 3ks and 4ks?

Btw, whytewidow, I like your homemade heatsinks, I may have to borrow that idea from you

RocketSoul, thank you for being the voice of reason when it comes to blurps. Some people get so riled up at the idea and you could have the choice between 10,000 watts of true blurp or 100 watts of COB or LED strips with free power and people would say you're a moron for even thinking about using your blurpies. I think I am going to make the switch while within the return window, plus the idea of making my own stripes from mixing and matching LEDs to solder up my own lights sounds fun Especially since I'm worried these light stripes may not have as many of the spectrums that the blurps have, ie UV/IR, unless I'm mistaken on that point?

whytewidow said:

I have two flower tents......

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Ye gods, man, you're kicking ass and taking names something downright heinous. Heinous, I tells ya. Way to freakin' go. Great greenthumbing and great posts. Your methods and results inspired me to make my first post on a 420 board in a long, long time. I used to spend a lot of time on Overgrow many years ago and ducked out of the scene when it went kaput. Now I'm looking to update and will be posting a thread shortly. So, yeah - It was your excellent work that dragged my first post here outta me. I look forward to crossing paths with you again.

sunsp0ts said:

Hey guys, OP here, I'm thinking maybe I'll go a little higher than 300watts LED, perhaps 400, a higher driver and then I can build my own custom LED strips down the line to add to it as well.

Question just to get me started before I do my more intense research: will 4k's be good for veg AND flowering? Or should I get a mix of 3ks and 4ks?

Btw, whytewidow, I like your homemade heatsinks, I may have to borrow that idea from you

RocketSoul, thank you for being the voice of reason when it comes to blurps. Some people get so riled up at the idea and you could have the choice between 10,000 watts of true blurp or 100 watts of COB or LED strips with free power and people would say you're a moron for even thinking about using your blurpies. I think I am going to make the switch while within the return window, plus the idea of making my own stripes from mixing and matching LEDs to solder up my own lights sounds fun Especially since I'm worried these light stripes may not have as many of the spectrums that the blurps have, ie UV/IR, unless I'm mistaken on that point?

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Yeah its simple. I used the 560mm strips. So I made my heatsinks lengths 23" bc the strips are only 22" long. So that gave me an inch. 1/2" on each side. To mount the angle. And that's all I used to hold it all together. But I used chop saw. Cut every inch. It was a tad time consuming. But free heatsink other than my time. But I set the depth on the chop saw to only cut to the inside of the bottom face when laying ona table. Then cut it every inch. Mounted the PC fans on end. They all run off of small wall adapter 12v charger. From an old toy of my sons that he doesnt have anymore. Run through a sonoff wireless switch. Controlled by phone. When the heatsinks reach 90°F they kick on. And I have it set to shut off when they hit 80°f you can set whatever temps you want. I want cold as ice. And those fans do it. Plus having the slots let's heat come up out instead having to travel the length of the tube to get out when fans arent on. I stuck the temp sensor from the sonoff inside the center heatsink in the middle of the light. As far as I could reach in with my fingers. And put a piece of thermal tape over the sensor like you would tape a pencil to a table. So it lays directly over the strip right over leds.

I run all the channels off of a sonoff. I have control of the Samsung 3k strips, the reds, the 27ks. All my fans, dehumidifiers, heaters. Anything controlled by 120vac I can turn off or on or use the temp sensors to turn them on or off. As long as my phone has cellphone service or connected to wifi somewhere anywhere i can see what my tent is doing. I can shut it all down with the flick of button no matter where I'm at in the world.

If you look the heatsink u can see the cuts in the side jus a small 1/8 cut. Or however thick la chop saw blade is. And I got a 12 pack of PC fans on Amazonfor like 16 bucks.

Dont.mind the messy wiring. I still gotta do some tucking and tying. And zip tying.

And the other light is super simple. 3/4" u channel from hemp depot. And 1/2" angle.

And the cobs have the slits in the sides too for the cobs I used. So I turned two angles on its side and mounted them with the heatsink slide.on each side. Like a track. And I can slide the cobs back forth the width of the light. To change lighting. If I need a little more over bigger plant. I can slide the cob right over the center of it. And then it also has the strips on each and above it.




Edit: the smaller light with cobs. I used a mix.of 3ks and 4ks. But I've flowered with both. If you're a heavy sativa lover I'd go all 4k. They still produce weight. Exceptional frost. But the 4k helps with the sati stretch more than the 3ks.

Those look great! I love those tracks too. How are you holding those samsung lights up to the rails? I can't tell what those are, they look like cabinet handles haha.

Question though regarding your phone setup, does your phone require an internet connection, and juice, to control your devices when they hit certain thresholds. IE if you're out of service and your temps get too high will your fans kick on anyway? Or is it not entirely dependent on your phone working?

So what do you guys think of this:

Per Whytewidows suggestions, I was thinking of getting 16 of these si-b8t261560ww, I can't link them directly. Then an HLG-480h-24a to drive them all. I'm comparing the typical power of 1.12A and 23V which gives me 25.76 watts. Looking at the datasheet it seems that they max out at around 43.56 watts. Will this be enough power to drive them all? Maybe I should get two of the 320's instead for greater headroom in the future. Although I'm looking at 4 of these strips per foot, which will probably be enough.

WhyteWidow, what do you recommend for reds? I see you have some in the pictures. Did you notice a big difference? Should I leave room for some for the future?

Thanks for all of your help everyone

One other quick question, because of your comments about the differences between 3k/4ks, do these lights have stretching issues then? Because my blurpies have literally kept my 1.5 week old guys in the dirt, which could be normal, this is my first real grow. Their leaves are about 4 inches long, and the stalks are about a half inch. I love it, especially due to the height restrictions of my tent. So just want to double check that I won't be struggling with them chasing these Samsung 4k's at all.

rkymtnman said:

took a quick glance at that article. very interesting. picture 1 of the tomatos in the greenhouse really shows the difference.

the bad part is i've still got pretty low mileage on my diy cobs so probably not gonna switch over anytime soon but i know what direction to take .

i guess i'm still stuck on the hps penetration chart that shows a 1K can do soemthing like 36" where a 600 can only do 24" (whatever the numbers are, they might be off). guess i have to change my thought process.
thanks!!

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The paradigm is shifting!

sunsp0ts said:

One other quick question, because of your comments about the differences between 3k/4ks, do these lights have stretching issues then? Because my blurpies have literally kept my 1.5 week old guys in the dirt, which could be normal, this is my first real grow. Their leaves are about 4 inches long, and the stalks are about a half inch. I love it, especially due to the height restrictions of my tent. So just want to double check that I won't be struggling with them chasing these Samsung 4k's at all.

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The majority of the growers here run under straight 3000k without stretching issues. Give the plants the right amount of light and they won't stretch.

Goddamnit, which is better, 3K, 3.5K, 4K, 5K? From the spectrum analysis charts it looks like 4K gives you the most light, 5 being too blue, 3 being too red, 4 having both. Fuck it I'm going with 4 until I can find some prefabbed PCBs to build my own. If I ever get to that point.

don't want to hijack your thread @sunsp0ts but one more question for @Humple @whytewidow

if i wanted to add strips or qbs with the 660 and far red to my setup, are there any that are pre-made that have them?

i think i saw the sol skin boards and the qb96 that have the reds. are there any strips? or any others that i'm missing?

i just got my lux meter from china yesterday and i'm going to measure what kinda ppfd i have in my bloom room; if it's low, then i might have to ask Santa for some more lights!! lol.

thanks for the help guys!!

rkymtnman said:

don't want to hijack your thread @sunsp0ts but one more question for @Humple @whytewidow

if i wanted to add strips or qbs with the 660 and far red to my setup, are there any that are pre-made that have them?

i think i saw the sol skin boards and the qb96 that have the reds. are there any strips? or any others that i'm missing?

i just got my lux meter from china yesterday and i'm going to measure what kinda ppfd i have in my bloom room; if it's low, then i might have to ask Santa for some more lights!! lol.

thanks for the help guys!!

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Check these out.

https://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/photo-boost-strip-light-engine/

Humple said:

Check these out.

https://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/photo-boost-strip-light-engine/

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yes HUmple! that's exactly what i was looking for. and not too expensive either. thank you.

sunsp0ts said:

Those look great! I love those tracks too. How are you holding those samsung lights up to the rails? I can't tell what those are, they look like cabinet handles haha.

Question though regarding your phone setup, does your phone require an internet connection, and juice, to control your devices when they hit certain thresholds. IE if you're out of service and your temps get too high will your fans kick on anyway? Or is it not entirely dependent on your phone working?

So what do you guys think of this:

Per Whytewidows suggestions, I was thinking of getting 16 of these si-b8t261560ww, I can't link them directly. Then an HLG-480h-24a to drive them all. I'm comparing the typical power of 1.12A and 23V which gives me 25.76 watts. Looking at the datasheet it seems that they max out at around 43.56 watts. Will this be enough power to drive them all? Maybe I should get two of the 320's instead for greater headroom in the future. Although I'm looking at 4 of these strips per foot, which will probably be enough.

WhyteWidow, what do you recommend for reds? I see you have some in the pictures. Did you notice a big difference? Should I leave room for some for the future?

Thanks for all of your help everyone

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I'll post these again as most have seen them already.

Left is 9 f-series strips @ 3k powered by a hlg-240h-24b with 70 watts of supplemental diodes ran pulling 270 watts from the wall.
Right is 9 f-series strips in a mix of 3k,3.5k and 4k on another 240h driver pulling 268 watts from the wall.
The left pulled 18 oz in a 3x4 area with 6 plants, I don't remember what the exact numbers for the right side but it was around 12 oz but only had 4 plants in a 3x3 area.
As far as penetration, here is the lowers on the plants on the right.