Nutrient burn? Heat Stress? Deficiency? Overwatering? Underwatering? A little help.

I've been Googling around but I'm not really sure what is the true problem. There are too many factors to consider. One problem explains it but one symptom is missing from the list...



24 hours ago, I have transplanted this plant out of Garden Grade Soil (lots of rocks, rags e.t.c) into Horticultural Grade Soil (DAT FEEL)

Strain: Northern Lights
Planted: 30th March 2013
Sprouted: 4th April 2013
Light schedule: 12/12 (Realized I made a mistake so I switched it to 16/8 on the 27th of April 2013)
(Garden Grade Soil) N.P.K: 8-8-8 but it is a slow release fertilizer, I poured too much in I think, like 20 over pellets. I'm a retard.
Has compost in it (when I threw it away, I noticed there was half a beetle in there, it looks...preserved, like a plastic toy. I assume it was a free gift that broke..)
Garden Grade Soil hardened after 3 weeks.
Temperature: 23-27 degrees Celsius (Wall mounted air condition unit)
Watering every 2 days.
Lights: HPS 400w High bay. No reflector. Open bulb, kind of like a vertical grow. Light is right beside the plant. Not too far away though, but when the air conditioner was turned on, the plant literally stuck its face 3 cm away towards the light and didn't get heat stress. It was like "....Shiny.....".

Water PH: tap water.

After copying and pasting this damn chart I just realized that the ph is at 7-9. I have left a few cups of water sitting around my grow area, that is what I'm supposed to do with situations like this, right...? If not, I should use bottled water? That would suck...for my pocket.

But I know my Grandma has a machine ($300) that adjusts or alters the pH value or something...but I am not stealing from an old lady neither will I still from anyone. I believe that that water is helping her health or something, she hardly gets sick anyway. I am not going to take it away from her.



Summary for current set-up (8th May 2013)

Horticulture Grade Soil (Natural product of humus. Made on maturation by intense bacteria action of a mixture of organic matter, peat moss, medium loam and supplemented with inorganic super phosphate, muriate of potash, limestone, essential trace elements and fungicide)
New Fertilizer -
Foliar: 21/21/21
Thrive: 13/27/27
Haven't used any of the new ferts yet, not till I figure out this problem.
Turned off the air conditioner.
Opened windows (live on the 10th Floor)
Still have a fan running.


Climate: Tropical, equatorial 12/12 constant (Sun rise 7am - 7pm Sun down), bloody hot

Notice how it is small despite being this old? I have 4 more seedlings going. Straight to soil. I tried water cup and paper germination method with 5 big bud seeds, they all died days later when planted into the soil.

I've been using Notepad to make a journal (with pics) and will upload it all in one go.

Thanks in advance.

Use either nitric or phosphoric acid based pH down (sulfuric acid will do in a pinch) to get your feeding water to about 6 until the runoff water starts to come out around 6.5-7.

8-8-8 is a good mix and the soil itself seems good.

Ask grandma to hook you up with a few gallon jugs full of ph'd water. Say its for some type of aquatic pet or something. Or try some distilled water im pretty sure that's 7 ph,( a few drops of lemon juice help lower it). Good luck man, hope they make it.

So the problem is the water? That's odd. I never had trouble with my previous auto blueberry. It grew well but remained too short (3 months 3 inches using only 2700k as an experiment, good shit but the yield was 0.5g)

Any more diagnoses?

im not even going to read all that...your feeding a seedling?!?!?! no food until its about 6-8 inches and stay away from the delay release crap you never know how much you released...the more you water the more it leaches out and then noobs (not saying you) go oh no i have a nutrient toxicity im going to flush..and they just leach more nutes to the plant lol. anyway my vote goes to hot soil/feeding to early. transplant it into some new organic soil without any additives for a few more inches of growth bet it takes off

when growing in bought soil its ph balanced, your nute line will be ph balanced, your water cannot kick the ph through an entire grow so basically what im saying is no delay release and store bought soil = never having to worry about ph or check it again..causes people more confusion and problems since it never IS the problem..also leave your tap water out for a day or two before using incase you didnt know that

kermit2692 said:

im not even going to read all that...your feeding a seedling?!?!?! no food until its about 6-8 inches and stay away from the delay release crap you never know how much you released...the more you water the more it leaches out and then noobs (not saying you) go oh no i have a nutrient toxicity im going to flush..and they just leach more nutes to the plant lol. anyway my vote goes to hot soil/feeding to early. transplant it into some new organic soil without any additives for a few more inches of growth bet it takes off

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Well, since it was a time release fertilizer I thought I ought to put it in the soil first so by the time the seedling is ready to absorb nutrients from the soil, it will be available.

Hot soil? Alright I'll figure something out. Thanks.

I have already transplanted it 24 hours ago. So all I have to do is wait?

kermit2692 said:

when growing in bought soil its ph balanced, your nute line will be ph balanced, your water cannot kick the ph through an entire grow so basically what im saying is no delay release and store bought soil = never having to worry about ph or check it again..causes people more confusion and problems since it never IS the problem..also leave your tap water out for a day or two before using incase you didnt know that

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Thanks very much. I have placed the plant a little further away from the light (30 cm is fine?)

The problem might not be pH, but it's definitely not nute burned either. Having some nutrients isn't going to kill a plant, or all seeds that fell into dirt in nature would die from nute burn. You'd likely see it start to turn a glossy dark green with clawing if you were feeding too much. Your plant looks deficient in something, not nute burned.

I just suspected the pH could be causing nute lockout problems since you said you have hard tap water.

oh lol i missed that part haha ya you have done everything wrong at once..can be fixed though..you dont need the hid until flower time for now its best to use a few 100 watt compact flouros in a couple clamp lights..those can be kept 2/4 inches from the top of the plant...the hid on the other hand needs to be at least 1.5 feet from the top and shouldnt really be used on seedlings anyway imo...so if you have repotted it already into soil with no additives, then yes just make sure it has a normal water schedule going and it should be in its final pot with the light the proper height depending on if you get flouros which i advise doing. and thats it everytime you grow for the seedling stage..just dirt, water, a party cup with holes in the bottom, and a repot at about 6 inches into the final 3 5 or 7 gallon pot...then after a couple more inches, 8-10 ish total height, you will need to start feeding with a good organic nute line no delay release! lookup ge go box has everything you need and fool proof directions..also when repotting plant the plant a little deeper than it was before to get rid of any stretch and gain some more room to grow.

churchhaze said:

The problem might not be pH, but it's definitely not nute burned either. Having some nutrients isn't going to kill a plant, or all seeds that fell into dirt in nature would die from nute burn. You'd likely see it start to turn a glossy dark green with clawing if you were feeding too much. Your plant looks deficient in something, not nute burned.

I just suspected the pH could be causing nute lockout problems since you said you have hard tap water.

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So I'll just let the water sit out awhile and see how things go? My autoberry (though small) did well with the water. It was a fun experiment. 3 inch tall autoberry with a flower on it. Kinda like a mini umbrella. Shit was adorable.


Do I turn the air conditioner back on? It seems really, really hot in my room.... Like... really hot, despite windows being open and all. The fan is doing alright but I am still worried.

kermit2692 said:

oh lol i missed that part haha ya you have done everything wrong at once..can be fixed though..you dont need the hid until flower time for now its best to use a few 100 watt compact flouros in a couple clamp lights..those can be kept 2/4 inches from the top of the plant...the hid on the other hand needs to be at least 1.5 feet from the top and shouldnt really be used on seedlings anyway imo...so if you have repotted it already into soil with no additives, then yes just make sure it has a normal water schedule going and it should be in its final pot with the light the proper height depending on if you get flouros which i advise doing. and thats it everytime you grow for the seedling stage..just dirt, water, a party cup with holes in the bottom, and a repot at about 6 inches into the final 3 5 or 7 gallon pot...then after a couple more inches, 8-10 ish total height, you will need to start feeding with a good organic nute line no delay release! lookup ge go box has everything you need and fool proof directions..also when repotting plant the plant a little deeper than it was before to get rid of any stretch and gain some more room to grow.

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I'm using HPS start to finish. The bulb is exposed. No reflectors or whatsoever, just like a vertical grow with 5 plants surround it but with a gap opened for the fan to blow air through.

Do I turn the air conditioner back on? It seems really hot in there.

EDIT: Or should I turn the air conditioner back on only at night? Doesn't seem like a hassle to me (25 Degrees Celsius)

churchhaze said:

The problem might not be pH, but it's definitely not nute burned either. Having some nutrients isn't going to kill a plant, or all seeds that fell into dirt in nature would die from nute burn. You'd likely see it start to turn a glossy dark green with clawing if you were feeding too much. Your plant looks deficient in something, not nute burned.

I just suspected the pH could be causing nute lockout problems since you said you have hard tap water.

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lol..ya thats why i say its fine with no nutes for a while their is already shit in the dirt adding nutes is too much for a seedling and yes it will cause nute burn and stunt or stop growth of a seedling ..that said his problem is mainly that he had an hps cms off the plant compunded with continually watering delay release nutes into a seedling. the problem isnt ph, the problem is never ph, nute lockout can only happen from a ph imbalance and that only happens in hydro so new growers trip out about ph when your growing in soil from horror stories that dont apply to you. trust me i know this because my first grow any problem i had i went oh could be ph and i tested the shit out of it, each test came back a little different, i was never sure, and it was just confusing my problem wound up being deficiency...trust me not ph, never ph...99.9% of the time....do all i said make sure to leave your water out before using, follow the steps i laid out and you cannot fail...keep your temps under 80 humidity around 55 ..get a 20 dollar guage at radioshack

kermit2692 said:

lol..ya thats why i say its fine with no nutes for a while their is already shit in the dirt adding nutes is too much for a seedling and yes it will cause nute burn and stunt or stop growth of a seedling ..that said his problem is mainly that he had an hps cms off the plant compunded with continually watering delay release nutes into a seedling. the problem isnt ph, the problem is never ph, nute lockout can only happen from a ph imbalance and that only happens in hydro so new growers trip out about ph when your growing in soil from horror stories that dont apply to you. trust me i know this because my first grow any problem i had i went oh could be ph and i tested the shit out of it, each test came back a little different, i was never sure, and it was just confusing my problem wound up being deficiency...trust me not ph, never ph...99.9% of the time....do all i said make sure to leave your water out before using, follow the steps i laid out and you cannot fail...keep your temps under 80 humidity around 55 ..get a 20 dollar guage at radioshack

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Wow. Thanks buddy, you've been a great help! Radioshack doesn't exist in my country. I'll check around though.

I am seeing tiny stubs ( a little sharp looking) poking out from nodes or internodes, not sure what node but I assume that's a good thing..

Do I turn on the air conditioner when the lights go out?

if you didnt have pics to back up the fact that you are screwing up i would think you are just trolling...and i kind of still do..as i said you keep the room under 80 76 is best so set the damn ac to 76 and call it a day or handle it however you want to but thats what it needs to be...whatever you see is nothing those are three inches tall i really think your trolling being stupid..r

kermit2692 said:

if you didnt have pics to back up the fact that you are screwing up i would think you are just trolling...and i kind of still do..as i said you keep the room under 80 76 is best so set the damn ac to 76 and call it a day or handle it however you want to but thats what it needs to be...whatever you see is nothing those are three inches tall i really think your trolling being stupid..r

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Alright. I'll turn the A/C on to 80 when the lights are on and 76 when the lights are off.

My apologies. I assure you I am not trolling. I am just a very paranoid about this and er, well, trying to add some humor, however cold it may be, to this thread (Well, I tried my best).

Aww, come on, it's not that bad, and replacing the soil seems a bit drastic. I mean straight up, it looks like adding more of the 8-8-8 nutrients will provide some more potassium and fix the obvious potassium deficiency going on down there. The lower leaves are turning yellow and falling off. Why would you think that's from over nuting? The younger leaves are eating the older leaves because they don't have enough food.

hmm im convinced you are both the same person..if not..no try to keep it around 76 day and night but what i meant was never over 80...now im out this is too fishy and the site is full of loser weirdo trolls

churchhaze said:

Aww, come on, it's not that bad, and replacing the soil seems a bit drastic. I mean straight up, it looks like adding more of the 8-8-8 nutrients will provide some more potassium and fix the obvious potassium deficiency going on down there. The lower leafs are turning yellow and falling off. Why would you think that's from over nuting?

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Okay my mind is going sideways. I used slow release fertilizers on the previous soil. Like.. 20 or more pellets of them. Why? I'm fucking retarded. That's why. I did a soil change and I will start feeding on this Sunday and see how it goes from there (21-21-21). Nothing can save those yellowing and brown crispy leaves now so I assume that the plant is absorbing what it can and dropping it completely.

kermit2692 said:

hmm im convinced you are both the same person..if not..no try to keep it around 76 day and night but what i meant was never over 80...now im out this is too fishy and the site is full of loser weirdo trolls

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Is this a reverse troll? We are not the same person. Our join date is 4 years apart. If we were the same person and wanted to troll, I would have started trolling years ago but no, I don't troll, especially on the site.

Alright. I will, thanks and in the meantime I will continue letting the tap water sit for 48 hours.