Nutrients needed at all for vegging 25 days?

curto · Jul 27, 2011

So, just wondering would nutrients be needed at all for vegging only 25 days? I'm using potting soil that says Formulation includes sphagnum peat, perlite, and humus

MrStickyScissors · Jul 27, 2011

yeah I would hit them a couple times in 25 day period

sonar · Jul 27, 2011

Are you sure there aren't any time released nutes in the soil? Does they bag say anything like "feeds for up to 3 months?" If so, I wouldn't feed them right away.

If the soil is pretty much inert, like promix or sunshine mix, then a light feeding a few weeks in might be a good idea. When I start seedlings in promix, I usually feed them 1/4 strength (or even a little less) with Botanicare Grow at around 2 weeks.

I've noticed most people, noobs and vets alike, say not to feed for at least 3 weeks even in something inert like promix. I disagree. In my experience, a light feeding around 14 days really helps the plants take off. At least in the case of promix + botanicare.

MrStickyScissors · Jul 27, 2011

sonar said:
Are you sure there aren't any time released nutes in the soil? Does they bag say anything like "feeds for up to 3 months?" If so, I wouldn't feed them right away.

If the soil is pretty much inert, like promix or sunshine mix, then a light feeding a few weeks in might be a good idea. When I start seedlings in promix, I usually feed them 1/4 strength (or even a little less) with Botanicare Grow at around 2 weeks.

I've noticed most people, noobs and vets alike, say not to feed for at least 3 weeks even in something inert like promix. I disagree. In my experience, a light feeding around 14 days really helps the plants take off. At least in the case of promix + botanicare.

if your usuing sumthing like miricle grow then I wouldnt feed for a while. that shit is garbage indoor though. drains like shit. I never feed when I first transplant. but after the second water I will hit them half strenghth

DinafemHashPlant · Jul 27, 2011

After 3rd-4th set of leaves 10-14 days do 1/4 strength, but u can use flowering nutes all the way thru 2 not sure if thats what u where asking tho....JMO

curto · Jul 27, 2011

DinafemHashPlant said:
After 3rd-4th set of leaves 10-14 days do 1/4 strength, but u can use flowering nutes all the way thru 2 not sure if thats what u where asking tho....JMO

Cool answers my question... Didn't want to give it too much love too soon

Paperhouse · Jul 27, 2011

I agree with HashPlant. Go very light on nutes during the entire first month, 1/4th dosage at the most. I went 1/3rd dosage on week4 and still nuteburned the hell out of one of my girls.

It also depends a lot on what strain you're growing as some are more sensitive than others, but still start low to be safe.

tibberous · Jul 27, 2011

MrStickyScissors said:
if your usuing sumthing like miricle grow then I wouldnt feed for a while

That's what I thought until they started dieing from nit def. You can get a pint of dynagro for $10 and it will last you a while - I'd feed at least after the second week.

MrStickyScissors · Jul 27, 2011

tibberous said:
That's what I thought until they started dieing from nit def. You can get a pint of dynagro for $10 and it will last you a while - I'd feed at least after the second week.

yeah you have to feed them eventually. any soil.

sonar · Jul 27, 2011

MrStickyScissors said:
if your usuing sumthing like miricle grow then I wouldnt feed for a while. that shit is garbage indoor though. drains like shit. I never feed when I first transplant. but after the second water I will hit them half strenghth

Good point about not feeding right after a transplant.

curto · Jul 28, 2011

couple more days ill start with nutrients, my question was really should I use VEGing Nutrients, but the answer I saw was yes.

There only 10 days old!

collective gardener · Jul 28, 2011

Feed lightly, feed often. Try to use either totally inert soiless mix and feed from the get go, or a high quality soil that contains all nutrients (like Roots Organic) and just water for first several weeks. The problem with most soils is that they contain too much NPK and not enough secondary and micros. The plants can show a nute def (secondary or micro), but when you feed you burn them because the soil is loaded with NPK. There's no winning with cheap soils. I've always preffered totally inert because we can then control what they get, rather than guessing what's in the mix. For noobs, Sunshine #4 fed with GH 3 part is a no brainer very effective combo. Add 20% perlite to it and you can water everyday. It's a good idea to flush heavily once per week.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

MrStickyScissors · Jul 28, 2011

collective gardener said:
Feed lightly, feed often. Try to use either totally inert soiless mix and feed from the get go, or a high quality soil that contains all nutrients (like Roots Organic) and just water for first several weeks. The problem with most soils is that they contain too much NPK and not enough secondary and micros. The plants can show a nute def (secondary or micro), but when you feed you burn them because the soil is loaded with NPK. There's no winning with cheap soils. I've always preffered totally inert because we can then control what they get, rather than guessing what's in the mix. For noobs, Sunshine #4 fed with GH 3 part is a no brainer very effective combo. Add 20% perlite to it and you can water everyday. It's a good idea to flush heavily once per week.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html[/QUOT

iv allways wanted to try that sunshine soiless mix. right now im using the roots organic with house and garden line up. great results. Dont want to fix sumthingthats not broke.but do you think there is potential to yield more with the soiless mix?

collective gardener · Jul 29, 2011

MrStickyScissors said:
collective gardener said:

Feed lightly, feed often. Try to use either totally inert soiless mix and feed from the get go, or a high quality soil that contains all nutrients (like Roots Organic) and just water for first several weeks. The problem with most soils is that they contain too much NPK and not enough secondary and micros. The plants can show a nute def (secondary or micro), but when you feed you burn them because the soil is loaded with NPK. There's no winning with cheap soils. I've always preffered totally inert because we can then control what they get, rather than guessing what's in the mix. For noobs, Sunshine #4 fed with GH 3 part is a no brainer very effective combo. Add 20% perlite to it and you can water everyday. It's a good idea to flush heavily once per week.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html[/QUOT

iv allways wanted to try that sunshine soiless mix. right now im using the roots organic with house and garden line up. great results. Dont want to fix sumthingthats not broke.but do you think there is potential to yield more with the soiless mix?

Click to expand...

I've always gotten better yields from soiless over soil and hydro over soiless. But, as I'm sure you know, yield isn't everything. With a grow our size dependability is extremely important. I've lost whole crops from a small problem in a hydro system. For us, the perfect balance between good yield and dependability is to grow in rockwool and hand water once per day.

As to your question, I doubt Sunshine #4 would give you much better yield than your Roots Organic. I've grown in both. I think the Roots Organic is the best soil right out of the bag for organic growing. Sunshine is one of the easiest and idiot proof soiless mixes for beginners. If you want to kick it up a notch, you may want to try a coco/perlite mix. We've had good results from coco with 40% perlite in large containers. However, when we switched from that mix to rockwool croutons in 2 gallon containers, the results were fantastic. We are now testing croutons in pots vs. 4" blocks placed on top of 6" Hugo blocks. So far, the croutons look a little better than the blocks, but the blocks are SO much less labor intensive. If you do try rockwool, make sure the plants are very well rooted in the 4" block prior to placing in container or on block. Otherwise, the roots will just stay in the block and the plant will remain stunted.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

MrStickyScissors · Jul 29, 2011

collective gardener said:
MrStickyScissors said:

I've always gotten better yields from soiless over soil and hydro over soiless. But, as I'm sure you know, yield isn't everything. With a grow our size dependability is extremely important. I've lost whole crops from a small problem in a hydro system. For us, the perfect balance between good yield and dependability is to grow in rockwool and hand water once per day.

As to your question, I doubt Sunshine #4 would give you much better yield than your Roots Organic. I've grown in both. I think the Roots Organic is the best soil right out of the bag for organic growing. Sunshine is one of the easiest and idiot proof soiless mixes for beginners. If you want to kick it up a notch, you may want to try a coco/perlite mix. We've had good results from coco with 40% perlite in large containers. However, when we switched from that mix to rockwool croutons in 2 gallon containers, the results were fantastic. We are now testing croutons in pots vs. 4" blocks placed on top of 6" Hugo blocks. So far, the croutons look a little better than the blocks, but the blocks are SO much less labor intensive. If you do try rockwool, make sure the plants are very well rooted in the 4" block prior to placing in container or on block. Otherwise, the roots will just stay in the block and the plant will remain stunted.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

Click to expand...

so would a 3 gallon pot with rock wool crutons be allright for a 10 week flowering period? and would I need to water everyday? how would you judge when you need to water? would you still water when the pot feels light? Im going to try it on one light this go around.

MrStickyScissors · Jul 30, 2011

collective gardener said:
MrStickyScissors said:

I've always gotten better yields from soiless over soil and hydro over soiless. But, as I'm sure you know, yield isn't everything. With a grow our size dependability is extremely important. I've lost whole crops from a small problem in a hydro system. For us, the perfect balance between good yield and dependability is to grow in rockwool and hand water once per day.

As to your question, I doubt Sunshine #4 would give you much better yield than your Roots Organic. I've grown in both. I think the Roots Organic is the best soil right out of the bag for organic growing. Sunshine is one of the easiest and idiot proof soiless mixes for beginners. If you want to kick it up a notch, you may want to try a coco/perlite mix. We've had good results from coco with 40% perlite in large containers. However, when we switched from that mix to rockwool croutons in 2 gallon containers, the results were fantastic. We are now testing croutons in pots vs. 4" blocks placed on top of 6" Hugo blocks. So far, the croutons look a little better than the blocks, but the blocks are SO much less labor intensive. If you do try rockwool, make sure the plants are very well rooted in the 4" block prior to placing in container or on block. Otherwise, the roots will just stay in the block and the plant will remain stunted.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

Click to expand...

I really want to try out those rock wool crutons. only problem im having with it is how could I veg them in a one gallon pot and then transplant them into a 3 or 5 gallon? I flower 7 1,000 watt hps at my house and only have a closet to veg in so i keep all my plants under 2 t5s. is there any way I could still do this and do it with the crutons and mayby a 4 inch rock wool cube?

collective gardener · Jul 30, 2011

A 2 gallon pot would be big enough for croutons with daily watering. Yes on the 4" blocks. We put rooted clones directly into 4" blocks. Plants are topped, then grown to about 10-12 inches tall. We then put them on a 6" block or into a 2 gallon pot with rockwool croutons for another 5 days in veg. You can, however, just keep them in the 4 inch block and transplant when you move into your bloom room. At 12" tall in a 4" block they will be very light 24hrs after watering. If they get too big for the block, the plant will wilt before 24hrs have passed. This is under a 1000 watt MH...under your T-5's they can probably be grown plenty big in veg without drying out. May I suggest you just try a few to get your system down prior to committing a large number to the new routine. We've made that mistake before and ended up with 50 poor performing plants. You also need to keep your PH at 5.5 with rockwool. It has a slightly high PH. Once you get the rockwool perfected you'll find it to be the best performing method short of aeroponics or RDWC.

MrStickyScissors · Jul 30, 2011

collective gardener said:
A 2 gallon pot would be big enough for croutons with daily watering. Yes on the 4" blocks. We put rooted clones directly into 4" blocks. Plants are topped, then grown to about 10-12 inches tall. We then put them on a 6" block or into a 2 gallon pot with rockwool croutons for another 5 days in veg. You can, however, just keep them in the 4 inch block and transplant when you move into your bloom room. At 12" tall in a 4" block they will be very light 24hrs after watering. If they get too big for the block, the plant will wilt before 24hrs have passed. This is under a 1000 watt MH...under your T-5's they can probably be grown plenty big in veg without drying out. May I suggest you just try a few to get your system down prior to committing a large number to the new routine. We've made that mistake before and ended up with 50 poor performing plants. You also need to keep your PH at 5.5 with rockwool. It has a slightly high PH. Once you get the rockwool perfected you'll find it to be the best performing method short of aeroponics or RDWC.

Alright thanks that sounds like it will be a little more work but if the yield is there then thats the way I will go. do you start out 1/2 streghth on the nutrient?

collective gardener · Jul 30, 2011

MrStickyScissors said:
Alright thanks that sounds like it will be a little more work but if the yield is there then thats the way I will go. do you start out 1/2 streghth on the nutrient?

Once you perfect your system for growing with rockwool you will see far better yield than with Roots Organic. That is, of course, if the medium is the weak link in your grow. Remember, the weakest link in your grow op determines the quality and quantity of your final product. For example, if a person is trying to light an 8' x 8' table with 1 - 600 watt light, changing medium or adding CO2 will have no effect...the light is the weak link.

As far as nutrient strength, I use only RO water to mix my solution with. When the rooted clones are first placed into the 4" rockwool blocks, we feed with 500 ppm. Once I see some new growth start (5 days or so), I up the ppm to 1000 for the rest of the veg cycle. Once they go into bloom, we feed at 1,300 ppm for 6 weeks. The last 2 weeks we feed straight RO water to get a really good flush and keep the quality up.

MrStickyScissors · Jul 31, 2011

collective gardener said:
Once you perfect your system for growing with rockwool you will see far better yield than with Roots Organic. That is, of course, if the medium is the weak link in your grow. Remember, the weakest link in your grow op determines the quality and quantity of your final product. For example, if a person is trying to light an 8' x 8' table with 1 - 600 watt light, changing medium or adding CO2 will have no effect...the light is the weak link.

As far as nutrient strength, I use only RO water to mix my solution with. When the rooted clones are first placed into the 4" rockwool blocks, we feed with 500 ppm. Once I see some new growth start (5 days or so), I up the ppm to 1000 for the rest of the veg cycle. Once they go into bloom, we feed at 1,300 ppm for 6 weeks. The last 2 weeks we feed straight RO water to get a really good flush and keep the quality up.

for lighting I have 7 1,000 watt hps with the xxl hoods and hortilux bulbs. each light has 7 to 10 plants under it on a ebb n flow table ontop of a regular 4x4 wood table to drain. RO water with cal mag and silica. house and garden nutrients. 3 gallon pots roots organic. im not doing bad at all this way im pulling a pound a light or sumtimes a ounce or 2 under on sum lights. but im trying to hit over a pound a light. im going to try one light and see if it shits on the other lights. that would be clean.

Nutrients needed at all for vegging 25 days?

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