Oaksterdam t-5 veg 600w hps flower

haha right on brother. i trimmed mine up today ill get pics soon. i can see little buds allready

ok, in order to keep the canopy even, i fimmed my four tallest plants. they were all 6". in know this is gonna shock the four ladies differently, but i can't care. if i kept it, eventually in 12/12 they would shoot up with a main huge stalk, leaving a bush under neath. at least now i can give em a chance to divide the top/ divide the top canopy. if i have to shim the pots during flower to keep the tops even i will, lets take this ride together, won't you?

looks good man, mine are showin buds

Drella said:

ok, in order to keep the canopy even, i fimmed my four tallest plants. they were all 6". in know this is gonna shock the four ladies differently, but i can't care. if i kept it, eventually in 12/12 they would shoot up with a main huge stalk, leaving a bush under neath. at least now i can give em a chance to divide the top/ divide the top canopy. if i have to shim the pots during flower to keep the tops even i will, lets take this ride together, won't you?

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I wouldn't be too worried about the shock. My Pineapple Express resumed full speed growth just 5 days after. Not a huge set back at all considering how bushy it makes a plant. I did only fim the growth tip though, minimal plant matter removed.

Scribed..... , Hi A late welcome to the site

theloadeddragon said:

Scribed..... , Hi A late welcome to the site

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and you are defn welcome ldraggon! let's see if my hard labor in this 600w hps bloom room can yield me at least 1/2lb my first time around. got about 1000 invested, a month wasted on eight male clones, and a lot of great riu friends to see this through!

Give the topped ones at least a week and a half before putting them in flower..... they should be 14-16 inches.... and 20" away for freshly transplanted clones is perfectly fine, but as they produce more foliage, the plant mass will require more light/water/steady nutrition to sustain itself, let alone grow, meaning that about 24-36 hrs after the topping (when the plant has recovered enough to repair and grow) it would be a good idea to lower the lights slightly (by about 8 inches) to about a foot away (Yes I understand full well you are using T5's and a good amount of them), you will then see even more explosive growth, as the plant will photosynthesize more with the more light, and water, and nutrients, and Most importantly that you realize the roots are growing as well and the plant mass itself is growing constantly (especially with a recent transplant occurring) drawing again more light..... moving the light to 12" away..... giving the plants room to grow another 4-7 inches (super dense wonderful growth) before you need to move the light up agian......

Leave your lights that far away, and you will notice some stretching occur here in the next week or so, as compared to if you don't.....

And..... Have you ever grown under MH before?

theloadeddragon said:

Give the topped ones at least a week and a half before putting them in flower..... they should be 14-16 inches.... and 20" away for freshly transplanted clones is perfectly fine, but as they produce more foliage, the plant mass will require more light/water/steady nutrition to sustain itself, let alone grow, meaning that about 24-36 hrs after the topping (when the plant has recovered enough to repair and grow) it would be a good idea to lower the lights slightly (by about 8 inches) to about a foot away (Yes I understand full well you are using T5's and a good amount of them), you will then see even more explosive growth, as the plant will photosynthesize more with the more light, and water, and nutrients, and Most importantly that you realize the roots are growing as well and the plant mass itself is growing constantly (especially with a recent transplant occurring) drawing again more light..... moving the light to 12" away..... giving the plants room to grow another 4-7 inches (super dense wonderful growth) before you need to move the light up agian......

Leave your lights that far away, and you will notice some stretching occur here in the next week or so, as compared to if you don't.....

And..... Have you ever grown under MH before?

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i feel like im being walked down the green path by the einstein of weed! i feel very priveleged brother! advice is spot on, and very clear. makes sense to move light closer after the top shock. i will follow ur advice, and feel better everyday about this grow!

and about mh. havent seen the reason for it in my grow yet. my low tech veg room setup, (bc no cooling for light and inexpensive lighting costs), but defn know MH is veg lighting master. what do you see as the advantages?

glad to see u decided to FIM. i did LST which i like for not shockin the plant but it isnt as symetrical and easy to even out the canopy as a FIM is. i think itd prob be worth the shot. TLD always has good advice hes all over the damn place lol. but ive used the MH with good results. the spectrum is diff then the t5. i like t5 for my clones and veg til i can throw em under a 1000MH with lower intensity lighting and boost faster growth but ive never compared the diff between MH and T5 lamps for same veg time. itd be a good experiment to do tho. im sure TLD will have sum imput

yeah tld's blowing my mind right now. never used mh, super wet over t5 right now. if mh gives you same density, but quicker growth, id still go with t5. because of my perpetual motives, 6-8 weeks flower. once i cut clones, before i throw in flower, it'll take em 2-3 weeks to root, 2-4 weeks in veg, then ready to start all over! we'll see though, mh might be in my future!

Well I know you're using the 4 foot t5s. How many tubes 2, 4 or 8? According to my catalog the 2 tube is 10,000 lumens, 4 is 20k and the 8 is 40k. A 400w MH is 39,000 lumens. So a 8 tube can easily rival the power of a smaller MH. The only difference I can see would be the shape or reflector qualities, and the T5 has a huge advantage in the heat department.

Flowering though HID pulls ahead. A 400w HPS bulb is 55,000 lumens.

Someguy15 said:

Well I know you're using the 4 foot t5s. How many tubes 2, 4 or 8? According to my catalog the 2 tube is 10,000 lumens, 4 is 20k and the 8 is 40k. A 400w MH is 39,000 lumens. So a 8 tube can easily rival the power of a smaller MH. The only difference I can see would be the shape or reflector qualities, and the T5 has a huge advantage in the heat department.

Flowering though HID pulls ahead. A 400w HPS bulb is 55,000 lumens.

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thanks for the research sg! i got 4- 4't5's. so i guess 8 would be the next step up if i need it. got a 600w air cooled hps, so im set for bloom!

I got 3 400W MH's running, no heat issues..... 8 X 40 = 320W being used by the T5's (4 ft) and it covers 7/10 an area in the same approximation on PAR lumens to a 400 W MH light wave density wise one ft away, but not any further, meaning that its PAR lumens is reduced at a greater rate than that of a MH and the Spectral difference all depends on the actual bulbs and manufacturer of the ballast..... I use T5's and CFL's on my seedlings and clones, but larger more vigorously productive plants will choose the denser light , and make better use of it as well as your nutes and water etc. Not saying you won't see healthy and productive results, but from experience I can tell you that MH is Better and how much better depends on ballast, reflector, and bulb ....... For example, my Ushio MH is tearing the Eye Hortilux MH to shreads, the plants react way better to the ushio, basically same model reflector and ballast.....

theloadeddragon said:

I got 3 400W MH's running, no heat issues..... 8 X 40 = 320W being used by the T5's (4 ft) and it covers 7/10 an area in the same approximation on PAR lumens to a 400 W MH light wave density wise one ft away, but not any further, meaning that its PAR lumens is reduced at a greater rate than that of a MH and the Spectral difference all depends on the actual bulbs and manufacturer of the ballast..... I use T5's and CFL's on my seedlings and clones, but larger more vigorously productive plants will choose the denser light , and make better use of it as well as your nutes and water etc. Not saying you won't see healthy and productive results, but from experience I can tell you that MH is Better and how much better depends on ballast, reflector, and bulb ....... For example, my Ushio MH is tearing the Eye Hortilux MH to shreads, the plants react way better to the ushio, basically same model reflector and ballast.....

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just the MH facts i was looking for. that's crazy 8-t5's use almost as much wattage as 400w MH! my next step would be to do 400w MH air cooled with 4" inline-exhausted through my attic, bc of my closet veg this would be the setup! great facts LD!

circulating fan with passive exhaust should be all you need to maintain temperature

theloadeddragon said:

circulating fan with passive exhaust should be all you need to maintain temperature

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right on! and if its a little humid during veg that's good, makes sense. this will probably be the next big purchase!

Hey Drella, just stopping by to check out your grow.

Consider this...I have (2) two foot 8-bulb T5 units that I can run one at a time or both at once. Side by side, this allows me to have 'levels' inside my veg tent with taller plants/strains on one side and shorter ones on the other. This is very handy.

But my main point is this - let's round up and say that I'm using both T5 units at the same time. Each bulb uses 24 watts, each 8-bulb fixture uses 192 watts, and the two together use 384 watts. So we'll say the T5's pull about 390w all together since their ballasts are tiny and don't run high current (meaning, they pull what they're rated at). All you need to supplement this is one little extraction fan since heat is no issue with T5's. This is my setup which keeps the electric bill down. I don't have heat issues, and the plants grow like crazy under them. I have a MH bulb that I never use now because the T5's work well enough alone.

Now say you did start using a 400w MH for veg. A 400w MH actually pulls between 430 and 470 watts depending on the ballast design, bulb used, and manufacturer. Then you also need beefier fans for ventilation, and a solid plan for heat extraction. You can never run at half-speed so to say, and you can't really have levels either. You create more of a heat signature as well.

So to use round figures if your inline extraction fan is 100 watts and you can get away with only one fan using a 400w MH, then you're looking at 530 - 570 watts consumption on the Metal Halide. That number is static.

If you go with the T5's then you're looking at 390 + 100 = 490 watts if you're running both at full capacity. if you cut one off and just use one of the T5 units you'll be at 295 watts and theoretically you could pull out a few individual bulbs and run at even less if you wanted.

Add to that the fact that all the parts cost a lot less for the T5's and I think you have a good case for maybe choosing the T5's over another HID. Also, unless you plan on growing perpetually you don't always want your clones growing as fast as possible for 2 months before you put them into flower. I find them getting too big sometimes just under the T5's!

Here's a pic of my setup (best one I could find that shows the T5's):

Sorry buddy, your just plain wrong..... I have 3 400W MH running in a 10x10 room pretty much side by side (as well as a 3 1/2 x 4 T5 CFL panel). Im not exhausting AT ALL, no heat problems at all, nope .... Indeed, the T5's are throwing off more heat than the 400W MH simply because less airflow is allowed around the bulb. The room is well insulated, double insulated actually....

I tested my 400W MH's... they each pull respectively 389-413 watts, steady 3.7 amps......

I am running T5's and CFL's side by side with the MH's using different T5 horticultural Brand bulbs (each to their own section) as well as different MH brands (different bulb, ballast, hood, respectively)...... once a plant passes 2 weeks or so in veg, it responds Twice as well to MH as the T5's and other fluorescent bulbs..... Even different strains at different distances from the bulbs, they ALL respond better to the MH, and the root systems too.....

Im not going to argue about any of these points....... the evidence is easily placed in pictures all over this site and the rest of the net, the info is out there easy enough to find, to each their own is fine.... I would be the last to bag on anyone for vegging under fluoros...... but the first to strait up bluntly tell a person they are wrong, having empirical data and other evidence to back up my claims

A 10x10 room is a whole diff ball game then a 2'x4' closet. Even with the doors wide open, I was at 85+ deg. It took venting the heat out of the space to drop it to 76-80 which is where I'm at now.

All I'm saying is, if your cramming something into a tight space, you shouldn't just ignore heat output, it does matter.

no your absolutely right, carelessness costs , but good air circulation and passive exhaust is all you need to vent a 400W MH..... I started in closets almost ten years ago.....

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/guide3.shtml