OFFICIAL CMH THREAD! (Post Your Ceramic Metal Halide Grows, ?'s & Experiences Here!)

SativaMe@420

Well-Known Member
although brick top is a complete dick at times, he has you guys dead to rights on the actual issues in re:CMH.

the light that we see is not what the plant sees or even uses. photosynthesis occurs best at certain spectrums, etc.

there are ways to inject doubt into his arguments, thus rendering them topsy turvy, but i will not tell any of you how to go about doing so. rather, i will sit back and be amused at watching that crusty old bugger leave you guys flailing.

for the record, i fucking hate brick top and it kills me to defend him here. but right is right.
Regardless of who's right or wrong if your causing more problems than you are helping then what's the point???? If you feel you have pertinent information then post it and be done with it, don't start trolling to get a rise out of someone and then keep it going back and forth like an annoying revolving door of shit. People have to read through post after post of arguing and bickering to get to the stuff they want or need and it just gets old don't you think?
 

Quitekeen

Active Member
"You can get technical if you like, but you can't argue with facts." Well, that is what I am asking for, the technical part, the facts about what use all the extra light spectrum is since much of it is hardly, if at all, used by plants.

I am simply asking what benefit the broader spectrum that is talked up or bragged about actually is?

Nice try at a sales pitch though with the; "100% of the people that use these bulbs ABSOLUTELY LOVE THEM, they flat out work" .. but what about my question? I can't be the only grower in the world who would like to know what I asked?

Your answer might make me a believer, so give me the straight facts, go all technical on me, OK?
here's a fact brick top, you have posts numbering in the 1000's, and yet I see no journals. seems like a pro such as yourself would have some thing on the board to prove you arent just a forum troll with no life... hmmmm
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Regardless of who's right or wrong if your causing more problems than you are helping then what's the point???? If you feel you have pertinent information then post it and be done with it, don't start trolling to get a rise out of someone and then keep it going back and forth like an annoying revolving door of shit. People have to read through post after post of arguing and bickering to get to the stuff they want or need and it just gets old don't you think?
it only gets old when no one can reasonably counter the argument put forth yet continue to argue.
 

SativaMe@420

Well-Known Member
I started this thread with the intention to compile info regarding CMH but so far it only serves to remind me of the saying: "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans".
 

Brick Top

New Member
here's a fact brick top, you have posts numbering in the 1000's, and yet I see no journals.
That is correct. And it is something I have explained MANY, MANY times, but still someone always goes back to it as if it is irrefutable evidence of something.

Over the years on various boards I posted pictures, had grow threads, did things just like a lot of you do. Then in less than one year there were three busts, two from a site I was modding at the time, and the other a local bust. All three were the direct result of the people posting pictures of plants.

The first one was pictures of a basement setup and plants. The guy took really great high resolution pictures and his setup and plants had everyone raving over them. That's right, he made himself look cool in front of all the puppies and Beavis and Buttheads.

But what he missed before posting the pictures is in one picture he caught the corner of his furnace. You could see a small tag or something on the furnace and if you enlarged the pictures you found that it was a sticker with the name, address and telephone number of the local heat - A/C business that installed and serviced his furnace. Someone of the pork variety spotted it, the heat - A/C business was visited, the various employees were asked if any of them recognized the furnace and basement. Between customer records and what the employees said, the guy was busted. Why? He made an extremely easy mistake to make and then posted pictures on a grow site.

The second was a backyard grow bust. The person had a number of different plots or gardens with different strains all over his backyard. He took pictures of each of them and some in groups. If he had stopped there he likely would have been OK. But he took one picture from up high. Maybe taken from a second story window or deck or from the roof of the house, or maybe from the roof of a garage, I don't know, but it caught his entire back yard PLUS what was behind it, which was what most people would consider to be nothing to worry about. You could see the Atlantic shoreline (you knew it was the Atlantic because in his thread he mentioned living in Georgia) and you could see a single two lane road and a set of high voltage power lines running along the road by the coast.

Evidently someone thought .. hummmm .. Georgia ... if I trace two lane roads along the coast that also have high voltage towers and power lines I might be able to figure out where this person lives.

It was figured out and he was busted. All because of one picture he posted that has just enough identifying landmarks for someone determined to use to track him down.

The third involved a local guy and a local cop who by chance scanned a grow site. The person had a plant they were very proud of and wanted a really good picture of, one with it alone and not in a cluttered grow room or closet or store room or attic or garage or whatever, so he brought it into his living room, or maybe it was a den/family room, I really never heard what room it was called.

On the wall behind the plant were pictures. The cop recognized a little girl, a little girl that was a friend of his daughters and who played at his house. That instantly told him whose plant it was. The guy was busted. To make it even worse, he had gone through a bitter divorce and fought like made for custody of his daughter, and won. After his bust the custody of his daughter was turned over to his ex-wife, pouring salt in an open wound.

That is when I stopped posting pictures.

As egotistical as I might seem to some I have no need to try to impress anyone with what I grow. I do not need, or even want, people going WOW, NICE, SWEET, THOSE LOOK FANTASTIC over my plants.

I have grown since 1972. This is not new to me. I have not considered it to be cool and impressive and something that makes me unique or something of a rebel or anything like that for decades so I feel no need or desire to try to impress a bunch of Beavis and Buttheads around the world, people I do not know and who I will never know.

I am getting within hours of turning 57 years old. I have never been busted and I damn sure am not going to risk making a simple easy to make, but major, error and risk getting myself busted just so I can prove to everyone that I not only grow, but that I am rather skilled and extremely experienced at it.

If someone does not want to believe me, I don't give a rat's ass. Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, and if it is negative and that I do not grow it always stems from them disliking me and desperately searching for some way to discredit me, their incorrect opinion or inaccurate belief or totally bogus accusation or claim will not in any way hurt my plants, reduce the quality of my plants, lower my yields or diminish my enjoyment of what I grow and toke.

Hell, I will not even say if I have something under lights at any particular time. You can call me paranoid, though to me I consider it caution, but just in case someone has an eye on me I am not going to tell them that I am just about to harvest something so they then know that now is the best time to kick in my door in the middle of the night.

I will tell about something that happened during a grow several crops back or last year or several years back. That might be the truth. And it might be something that just happened, something that is currently happening, but I will not say that. I would rather have someone who might be curious about me think that if they came they would find the cookie jar empty rather than full.

But I have said I might possibly in the future, if certain things change, once again post pictures. If my State goes med use or if I move to a med State, like I have been considering, then I might go back to posting pictures. I realize that I would still only be three-quarters legal, as in Kool and the Gang with local police, County Sheriff's Deputies and State Police, but still illegal on the Federal level, which means there would still be degree of risk.

But since I have never grown for profit, since I have never sold so much as a single joint or bud, and never will, and since I would fully comply with the laws of whatever med State I would be in I would feel comfortable that if any Fed caught wind of me I would be seen as such small potatoes that I would not make a viable target, that what I could be busted for would not justify the time and expense of busting me when there are large commercial grows and people trafficking large quantities of cannabis from State to State and across international borders.

So, for about the fiftieth time now on this site, that is why I do not and will not post pictures of what I grow.

I wish that could be made a sticky so people would finally stop asking me the same question and stop making the same incorrect accusations and could instead just read why and be done with it.

Some who read the above will say to themselves, oh yeah, I did read that before. Some will say, nope, I never read that before, but it does make sense and if that is what he needs to do to feel safe and secure, that's totally up to him and not for me or anyone else to question it. Others will scream BULLSHIT! I CALL BULLSHIT! IT'S A MAKE BELIEVE STORY TO TRY TO COVER UP THAT HE DOES NOT AND HAS NEVER GROWN!

Regardless of which reaction anyone here has, what I said is 100% factual, the God's honest truth and it is something I will adhere to, that is with the possibility of going back to posting if and when in a med State and a legal med user under that States laws.

One small but highly ironic bit that rather fits with why I will not post pictures involves someone here who was recently busted, fdd. Within the last few months he posted a message saying that people who are not in med States and not legal in those med States are taking a risk by posting evidence. It is highly ironic since he posted pictures like mad and even made videos that are on YouTube and bragged about getting $2,800.00 per pound of his product, and he ended up getting busted. I am not claiming that his pictures and videos are what first drew attention to him. They may have in no way factored into his bust. But there was a guy who posted pictures and videos like mad, but even he warned those who are not in med States or in med States but not legal that by posting pictures they were taking a risk, that they were increasing their risk factor.

There you go, there is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If anyone does not want to believe me, I could not care less even if I tried my very hardest.

But then if someone wants verification of what I have said, and if they are a member of Riddlem3, if I remember correctly it was in a thread started about be after I left the site, where most members saw it as a tragic loss, one or two people said what I am responding to now, that I don't post pictures so that is proof that I do not grow, that I have never grown and that I am full of shit. If I remember right it was Illumination who posted a message stating that he can remember seeing pictures of plants of mine a number of times in the past and that they were impressive.

So, there isn't a single one of you little puppies out there who have ever seem my handiwork, but there are some old dogs out there who have and who still clearly remember what they saw.
 

Bonzi Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
Actually my question is... Tell me your thoughts on CMH.

I use them with very good results as compared to HPS, I run both in different tents and I see no appreciable difference, other than heat output.

I don't know why either one works, but they work the same.

My cliffs so for on your book:

OP started a post
victory jumps in and says they are the holy grail
you say prove it and go on to lay it out, much more of everything so therefore less of the really needed.

or does a raising tide float all boats?

FWIW I'm Running gear from some sketchy guy named Scott Blakey
 

Phaeton

Active Member
"go tech on my ass" he said. I did explain how chlorophyll uses PAR light and the plant uses more. 850 nm for tip cell division, 305 nm for terpenes, etc, out of PAR spectrum used extensively by plants for non sugar processes. Why this blindness to everything the plant consists of that isn't sugar puzzles me?
Did I simplify it too much? Not enough? I am not an educator.

Kinda makes me feel I am being ignored by a highly intelligent well spoken troll with a general education.

Having a good all around education is very nice. The big picture makes more sense with an education. But some systems consist of many parts interacting in continuously varying conditions. Some of these conditions are counter intuitive to what we observe on large scale during normal activities. Molecular reactions to specific wavelengths over distances measured in angstoms is not covered in general biology 101.
Quantum entanglement is absolutely counterintuitive, but the latest work shows antenna molecules have extremely high entanglement. This entanglement is being investigated as the key to making carbohydrate by hand, something that has eluded science completely up to this point. Hydrogen bonded to carbon, how tough can it be? Too tough for humans so far.

So again, that simple answer that you insist on is not real and the continual trolling for a nonexistant answer while ignoring the facts is not making you look as unbiased as you picture yourself.

A course in physics and organic chemistry is not going to happen in the space of a forum post. Try a couple years of specific schooling, a degree in kayaking is not going to cover it either.
 

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Sure, I will quit .... but only after having a great deal of fun giving the other person enough rope to hang themselves with and have allowed them to prove to everyone else that they are the Beavis or Butthead I said they are.

Then I quit, my work is done and I see no reason to spike the ball.

The little clown shoe who has been dancing around the CMH issue is a perfect example of the type I am writing about. I do not know if he owns or manages or just works at a hydro store, but he says he sells CMH bulbs and that he doesn't earn much profit on them, which would lead most anyone to the assumption that he is a store owner/operator.

His well showcased ignorance is the perfect example of why so often we see threads where someone says how some hydro store person steered them wrong or the person mentions the advice they were given by a hydro store person, and it is absolutely terrible incorrect advice.

I asked him a question that should have been simple for anyone to answer if they know the product they are selling. He didn't have a clue. One reason I kept asking and pushing was to see if he would find out, if he would research or ask the manufacturer or consult a botanist or something so he could both learn what he should have already known and no longer look like a dumb-ass. He didn't do it. Instead he went after me on a personal level.

I posted graphs of the wavelength/spectrum absorption rate during different stages of growth for Chlorophyll A, Chlorophyll B and the various pigments. He didn't mention that at all. I would be willing to bet almost anything that the only thing he's ever heard of is Chlorophyll, but never Chlorophyll A, Chlorophyll B and the various pigments, let alone knowing what their absorption rate of different wavelength/spectrum at different stages of growth.

He clearly falls into the category of those who own or work at hydro stores, or even dispensaries, who the instant they become involved in the line of work deem themselves to be all-knowing experts on plants and growing, when in fact they don't know dick.

I am sure that the bubble-gummer customers and the Beavis and Butthead customers that he slick talks into purchasing his gimmick CMH bulbs gobble up his, they're great, 100% of people who use them love them, bullshit. But when you are dealing with someone who has grown since 1972 he would have to be able to do a whole Hell of a lot better than just saying, they work. He would have to be capable of thoroughly explaining to me how and why they allegedly are better, which would of course mean he would need not only total knowledge about CMH bulbs but equal knowledge about every manufacturers MH and HPS bulbs.

Combine that with the fact that when it came to selling Lincoln - Mercury's and Crest pontoon boats I was the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be, and I did not employ anyone who was not extremely talented when it comes to sales and extremely knowledgeable about not only our products but also those we were selling against. After seeing how little knowledge he believes is important to have about the products he sells, I wouldn't have hired him to wash cars or clean boats for me, though possibly I would have hired him as a marine petroleum distribution engineer. In other words, I might have allowed him to pump gas at the gas dock. Maybe.
Lol the real jokes on you "Butthead". Forumz R for srs bsns onlee gaiz.
 
I removed all my posts as my wife pointed out I was arguing with someone who obviously has some social issues and if I continued to fight over a light bulb, It may lead to him either committing suicide or coming to my store after he realizes how pathetic his life really is.So I don't want to be responsible in any way if he decides to take himself or me out.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Actually my question is... Tell me your thoughts on CMH.
That's the thing, I really cannot say that I have any real thoughts or opinions other than what I have said, that it appears to be a gimmick, because no one I asked has explained to me how wavelength/spectrum that is hardly or not used, but is put out by CMH bulbs, is more beneficial to plants than flooding them with more narrow wavelength/spectrum that are mostly what plants need during vegging and later flowering.

I can see where if someone only wants to use one type of bulb from start to finish that a CMH seems to be the best way to go. But that's not what I have asked.

One person did supply some technical information, but it doesn't jive with information I have found online or what I have been told by my family members with degrees in botany and horticulture.

I might seem overly pigheaded for not accepting the person's info, but with four family members with degrees from N.C. State I have to believe what they tell me over what some total stranger tells me.

The reason I thought what's his face would be the best person here to ask is because he sells them. I wrongly assumed that he would be well versed in every aspect of CMH.

So in the end I am still without a firm opinion or belief since the person I believed most likely to know, didn't know, and someone I don't know told me information that conflicts with what I can find online and what family members with degrees in botany and horticulture tell me.

Sorry that I cannot give you a better answer, but there it is.



I'm Running gear from some sketchy guy named Scott Blakey
Ya' just gotta love Scott. A super nice with a great sense of humor and a really humble guy with an amazing amount of talent. While a member of Mr. Nice Seeds Forum I was lucky enough to exchange a number of PMs with him, and also with Nevil, and it was always a treat. Both are guys I would love to know in real life.

If you do not mind my asking, what strain or strains did you pick from his line?
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
It is so nice that Billy Madison has joined the exchange. Have you graduated the second grade yet, Billy, or are you still working your way through the first grade?

Actually, when you talk light, Chlorophyll goes hand in hand with it because that is what is responsible for photosynthesis and that of course relies on light.

O'Doyle Rules!!!!!!!!!!
 

Bonzi Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
I'm Running the Black Widow now, 7 weeks into flower, don't know if it will make the 10 weeks or not, have 2 males that I'm going to chuck some pollen around from, also have some Medicine Man in my stock.
 

BlueB

Active Member
SEE!!!! This is the kinda thing I "DIDN'T" want to happen, I am very sorry for all the bullshit in this thread guys as Ive tried to tame the trouble maker/s to no avail. UNLESS YOU INTEND TO HELP OTHERS OR GET HELP YOUR SELF REGARDING CMH STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THIS THREAD, PLEASE!!!!!Hey BlueB: I'm truly sorry if you feel you've been ignored, this is not how I intended for this thread to go, you know the saying "there's always one who ruins it for everyone", well that's unfortunately the case here, EGOS to big to swallow, lol. I looked back through the thread and I can't seem to find the question you want an answer to, point me to the question or ask again and I'll do my best to answer it.
No problem, it wasn't a question. I was merely adding useful info to finalize this debate of whether or not CMH have their place in the gardening industry. I was just simply stating that CMH bulbs emit a balanced Red Green and Blue spectrum(therefore white) and although work well in their own regards for some people/strains, would benefit greatly with some additional red light. I don't think it's a question of whether or not CMH bulbs work, it's more-so how you intend to use them. Cannabis plants need a red ratio of 6:1 to flower "properly" and CMH bulbs do not emit that wavelength ratio.
RGB analysis of a CMH bulb,
 

Brick Top

New Member
I removed all my posts as my wife pointed out I was arguing with someone who obviously has some social issues and if I continued to fight over a light bulb, It may lead to him either committing suicide or coming to my store after he realizes how pathetic his life really is.So I don't want to be responsible in any way if he decides to take himself or me out.

Thank you for that one, and I really mean it. I haven't laughed so hard in a while. I will admit that it was a fairly good last parting shot by someone that's been beaten like a redheaded stepchild and who is in fast retreat, but it was still really hilarious.

I am the last person on earth who would ever kill himself. Now I do hunt, but that is because I enjoy the hunt itself and I love the meat, but other than that I am as far from being aggressive or violent with anyone or anything as a human can be. If a mouse gets in my house I scramble to catch it alive and release it outside before my cat can get it, and I will not use any type of trap that could harm it. I normally corner them and grab them. I once had a snake in my house, not one someone would want roaming free in their house. I had several chances to safely kill it. Instead I caught it and released it.

I am from the peace, love and dope generation. (I am sure someone will take advantage of the dope part to make a cutting remark). Even if I lived next door to you I would not show up at your door and even so much as argue loudly with you, let alone; "take" either or both of us "out."

Right now my cheeks literally hurt from smiling so big and for so long from the portrayal of my life and myself you conjured up. I live the life of Riley. I am retired, I wake up each morning with a smile on my face and enjoy the heck out of my life. The beauty of living on a lake and the security that I have created for myself makes me feel that each day is a true gift.

I am so, so, so very misunderstood here.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I'm Running the Black Widow now, 7 weeks into flower, don't know if it will make the 10 weeks or not, have 2 males that I'm going to chuck some pollen around from, also have some Medicine Man in my stock.
While I am more of a Mango Haze and Neville's Haze type person, you picked two darn good strains. And, as I am sure you already know, the Black Widow male is better to use in a cross than the female. It tends to pass on more of the better traits of the strain. I have never had any interest in breeding because I always said unless I could do it right, as I would see right being, and do it on a large scale, as in working with many plants over a long period of time to try to find the very best that could be found, I wouldn't do it. But if I did I would purchase several or so packs of Black Widow and search for a really special male to then use.

While it might turn out to be a terrible cross, for a while I have thought that I would like it if someone with true breeding skill, and who would do things right from 'A' to 'Z' would cross a male Mr. Nice Seeds Black Widow with a Sagarmatha's female Western Winds. For some reason I just tend to think that something fairly special might be found if that were to be done.
 

Phaeton

Active Member
Folks with an horticultural background telling you the 400-700 nm PAR spectrum is all a plant can use? I realize you are saying it seriously but you know it is not true. I realize you are playing stupid because it is annoying to your personal nemesis, but geez guy, this is not secret information.
Even LED makers put 740 nm emitter in their units, out of PAR waste per your horticultual friends.

The studies on bioflavinoid's that are produced by 285 nm to 310 nm UVB only, not produced by other wavelength (actinic blue and UVA interchange) indicate strong non PAR action in a variety of plants, not just marijuana.

You continue to play stupid, you have proved you are not actually in fact stupid. Disingenuous? Is that a good thing? or are you showing disrespect?

This is easily obtained information.

You don't know me, hey I don't care about you either, same age, retired, post between chores, amused inappropriately at times. I have done what you are doing in my shameful past, I like to think I'm better than that now.
Yeah, right, we are what we are and that's all that we are. I think Popeye is way underquoted.
 
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