Oh no, it happened again...

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
[h=1]​Yeah, yeah I know, it's from Fox, get over it, doesn't mean it's not true. First Puerto Rico and now Estonia.

The Austerity Myth[/h]By John Stossel
Published June 8, 2012 | FoxNews.com

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As you probably know, Greece is broke because of generous social programs and overpaid government workers. The Greeks accumulated so much debt that they needed to beg for multiple bailouts. Now we're told that Greece has been forced to drastically cut government through "austerity measures."
Liberals say those "austerity" measures have hurt the Greek economy and increased unemployment. This austerity argument seems bizarre, since Greece's "austerity" is a myth.
But one European country has enacted real austerity.
During the crash of 2008, Estonia's economic output fell by 18 percent. Instead of calling for more government, Estonians called for less. Estonians lived under communism for decades. They know that central planning is a fatal conceit.
Estonia cut government, lowered government worker salaries, raised the pension age, lowered taxes and simplified the tax code.
What happened? While most western economies struggled last year, Estonia's economy grew almost 8 percent. It's the only country in the Euro-zone with a budget surplus. Its national debt is just 6 percent of GDP, compared to 165 percent in Greece.
With smaller government, less debt, and low taxes, Estonia attracts businesses. Hundreds of tech companies are now based there. Skype, the internet phone company, was started in Estonia.
Politicians, even Mitt Romney, say that spending cuts will throw the economy back into recession. They ignore examples like Estonia.
The political class wants to make life better by contenting to spend more. I say, No They Can't!

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Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/06/08/austerity-myth/print#ixzz1xFQI5tLV
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
And Krugman still discounts it. Liberals just never want to admit to how wrong they are. Their philosophy: "continue to pump cheap money into the system, nothing will happen. Hey and while we're at it, lets continue to spend money we don't have!". Sounds like a 18 year old girl going on a shopping spree with her 20% interest baring credit card. Thus proving how delusional lib's have become. What a joke..

"The Estonian government responded to the financial crisis by slashing civil servants' salaries and raising the pension age, and since then the economy has recovered like a rocket. Last year Estonia clocked the third-fastest GDP growth in the European Union"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303665904577452022368273502.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
And Krugman still discounts it. Liberals just never want to admit to how wrong they are. Their philosophy: "continue to pump cheap money into the system, nothing will happen. Hey and while we're at it, lets continue to spend money we don't have!". Sounds like a 18 year old girl going on a shopping spree with her 20% interest baring credit card. Thus proving how delusional lib's have become. What a joke..

"The Estonian government responded to the financial crisis by slashing civil servants' salaries and raising the pension age, and since then the economy has recovered like a rocket. Last year Estonia clocked the third-fastest GDP growth in the European Union"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303665904577452022368273502.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Here it is on Yahoo, too.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/estonian-president-harangues-paul-krugman-twitter-214327635.html
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
if austerity works so well, reconcile that with greece. and italy. and spain. and portugal. and others.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
(Reuters) - Greece's cabinet approved late on Saturday 325 million euros ($428 million) of extra austerity measures needed to complete a 3.3 billion euro package of cuts -- the price demanded from Athens for a new EU/IMF bailout.
Below are the main measures, some of which may need new legislation. The information comes from statements by Prime Minister Lucas Papademos, the text of hundreds of pages of legislation posted in Greek and English on the parliament's web site, and government sources. (For web links see bottom of story)
FISCAL ADJUSTMENT
- Before any funds are disbursed under the bailout in March, the government must pass a supplementary budget including spending cuts worth 1.5 percent of gross domestic product this year, or 3.3 billion euros ($4.37 billion).
- A first breakdown of the cuts, issued this month, stated that 1.1 billion euros would come from health spending, mainly by lowering pharmaceuticals prices; 400 million euros from public investment; 300 million euros from the defense budget; 300 million from pension cuts and 300 million from the central government. Some 325 million euros of cuts were put aside to be detailed later, with the remainder to come from a series of smaller measures to reduce ministry operating expenses.
- While the final package of measures worth 325 million euros still needs to be officially specified, two government sources told Reuters on Feb 16 that 100 million euros would come from further defense cuts. An extra 90 million will be collected by bringing forward public sector wage reductions and another 135 million from the health, labor and interior ministries, the sources said. Prime Minister Lucas Papademos said on February 18 more cuts to pensions were unavoidable but said only the portion above a monthly threshold of 1,300 euros would be affected.
- In June, the government then in charge following possible elections penciled for April will have to specify additional austerity measures worth 10 billion euros for 2013-2015.
BANK RECAPITALISATIONS
- All banks will be required to achieve a core tier-1 capital ratio of 9 percent by the third quarter of 2012 and of 10 percent in the second quarter of 2013, by raising capital themselves and/or receiving bailout funds.
- Depending on the degree of state help they will need, banks will receive state funds in exchange for common voting shares, shares with restricted voting rights or convertible bonds.
PRIVATISATIONS
- Cumulative privatization receipts since June 2011 should be at least 4.5 billion euros by end-2012, 7.5 billion by end-2013, 12.2 billion by end-2014 and 15 billion by end-2015. An initial privatization target of 50 billion euros should be achieved "over the medium term."
- There will be increased powers for Greece's privatization agency to sell an asset in pieces, or liquidate it if it cannot be sold in its current form.
- The list of companies whose full or partial privatization will be launched in 2012 includes gas company DEPA, gas grid operator DESFA and refiner Hellenic Petroleum.
LABOUR REFORM
- Before any bailout funds are disbursed, Greece must pass legislation to reduce the monthly minimum wage, currently at about 750 euros gross, by 22 percent. For people below the age of 25, it will be cut by 32 percent; automatic wage increases based on seniority will be scrapped; collective wage agreements will be allowed to adapt "to changing economic conditions on a frequent and regular basis"; social security contributions are to be reduced by 5 percent.
- About 15,000 state workers will be placed in a "labor reserve" in 2012, meaning they will receive 60 percent of their basic wage and dismissed after a year; one civil servant will be hired for every five retiring, with the aim of cutting the state sector workforce by about 150,000 people by 2015.
STRUCTURAL REFORMS
- Before receiving any funds, Greece must revise legislation to make sure that a variety of professions are opened up to competition, including primary health care, stevedores, accountants, tourist guides and real-estate brokers.
FISCAL, ECONOMIC TARGETS
- For 2012, the annual general government primary deficit should not exceed 2.06 billion euros. For 2013 and 2014 the primary surplus should be at least 3.6 billion euros and 9.5 billion euros respectively. The figures above are subject to change.
- In 2012-2014, the general government budget deficit must be reduced by 7 percentage points from a 2011 level which Athens forecasts at between 9.1 and 9.4 percent of GDP. The fiscal targets may be stretched by one year into 2015 if economic growth is weaker than expected.
- The economy is seen shrinking overall by 4-5 percent in 2012 and 2013. Recovery is expected to begin in 2013, with the economy growing at a pace of 2.5-3 percent in each of 2014 and 2015.
DEBT-SWAP DEAL
The bill lays out the legal groundwork for the EU's EFSF rescue fund and the European Central Bank to facilitate a planned debt swap deal.
- A 35-billion euro "ECB Credit Enhancement Facility Agreement" will enable Greece to finance a repurchase agreement whereby the ECB, acting on Greece's behalf, would offer to buy back some Greek government bonds held by euro zone central banks.
- The European Financial Stability Facility will make 30 billion euros available as a sweetener for the debt swap.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/19/us-greece-austerity-idUSTRE81I05T20120219
 

billybob420

Well-Known Member
They also raised taxes. Not saying I agree with higher taxes (not saying I don't, I'm not an economist), but I'm just saying they also raised taxes.
 

Illegal Smile

Well-Known Member
If Greece would have applied a little austerity years ago, they could have avoided the drastic measures they have to take now. Even now we hear Obama saying the weakness in the economy is due to cuts at the state and local levels. In other words, too much austerity right when, if we are to learn anything from Greece, we need more austerity especially at the federal level. There is a time and a place for limited government stimulus to the economy, even when it is with deficit spending. But the idea of government continuing to spend and spend out of fear that not spending will cause a contraction, is absurd.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
No government austerity in those countries.
really?

that's not what the wall street journal seems to think (yes, that liberal mouth piece rag :lol:)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304023504577321200213474194.html

what's that about no austerity in spain? ask the germans.

http://news.yahoo.com/germans-ease-austerity-pace-spain-markets-turmoil-160137523--sector.html

the people of portugal are dumb. protesting austerity that doesn't exist.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-portugal-strike-idUSBRE82L0BJ20120322

i love the smell of nodrama derp dee der in the morning.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Estonia, Puerto Rico and let us not forget Iceland.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/08/us-iceland-gdp-idUSBRE8570UA20120608?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=56943

Here are three examples of how to prosper as a country or state. It is also a perfect example of how dishonest the neo-liberals are. They will argue that the best road to recovery is more government spending and more debt.
It is not easy to sit by and watch your core beliefs being proved wrong. Don't be mad or sad, we all make mistakes, it's the only way we learn.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
It is not easy to sit by and watch your core beliefs being proved wrong. Don't be mad or sad, we all make mistakes, it's the only way we learn.
that must be why you are ignoring the longer list of countries that are being fucked in the ass by austerity :lol:
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
But then, I know that SOME will never change. SOME people are so starved for attention, they will continue to make themselves look ridiculous in a vain attempt to validate their existence.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I think people who abandoned America and moved to Mexico or Canada should lose their citizenship, so we can let people in who want to be here. Time to make room.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
But then, I know that SOME will never change. SOME people are so starved for attention, they will continue to make themselves look ridiculous in a vain attempt to validate their existence.
keep ignoring all the countries that austerity is failing and accusing everyone else of ignoring stuff.

 

rollinbud

Active Member
But then, I know that SOME will never change. SOME people are so starved for attention, they will continue to make themselves look ridiculous in a vain attempt to validate their existence.

Awesome isn't it? Just typical Liberals brain fart, the solution to everything is more spending/borrowing when you are already drowning in a sea of debt.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
if austerity works so well, reconcile that with greece. and italy. and spain. and portugal. and others.
The best way to cure a hangover is to not get drunk in the first place. If you spend the prior generation spending money you don't have on unproductive pursuits, you wake up some dreary morning with a financial problem that requires a LOT of pain, and having to face reality. The Keynesians say the cure is more spending, you know, the alcoholic's, "hair of the dog that bit you" cure. The problem with that treatment is that the longer you stay drunk, the worse the hangover becomes, unless you just die, of course.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
I think people who abandoned America and moved to Mexico or Canada should lose their citizenship, so we can let people in who want to be here. Time to make room.
How very elitist of you. It's a good thing that NAZIS like you don't make those decisions.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
really?

that's not what the wall street journal seems to think (yes, that liberal mouth piece rag :lol:)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304023504577321200213474194.html

what's that about no austerity in spain? ask the germans.

http://news.yahoo.com/germans-ease-austerity-pace-spain-markets-turmoil-160137523--sector.html

the people of portugal are dumb. protesting austerity that doesn't exist.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-portugal-strike-idUSBRE82L0BJ20120322

i love the smell of nodrama derp dee der in the morning.
The GOVERNMENT is not suffering Austerity. i.e. government offices have not been shut down, government employees have not been laid off en mass. The ones suffering are the people. Pretty much what your posts tell me, so thanks for the support, too bad you can't read in the morning.
 
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