blazin256
Well-Known Member
if they would be stupid enough the give money to the enemy, the money deserves to be taken.
One More Reason To Hate Ron Paul
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
The Mastermind
Member
Open my eyes and look around? I have, and for the most part I can tell we still obtain a very free country outside of some things such as drug policy. But for the most part, I cant see many violations of individuals that have occurred over the last decade. I mean how exactly has the Patriot Act actually limited your liberty. Can you provide any kind of circumstance? Unless youre a direct threat to the nation, I dont see how your life has considerably changed at all. Note: Im not a fan of the Patriot Act, but you exaggerate the affect it has had on you and others, if any.
As for the nazi website existing, I think that is an example that freedom of speech and association have not been halted in anyway. This is an example taken from the current argument.
So if Ron Paul takes money from the neo-party, how exactly will he be able to use it against them? He wont. And usually when a donor receives money from a certain interest group, going against them isnt the best means of appeasing those constituents. I understand that Ron Paul is about the constitution and the rights for its citizens. Socially I am a libertarian, and I agree with many of the things he says. But taking funds from such an ill group bent on hatred and oppression of other individuals goes against what he stands for.
The point I made about Ron Paul was political, and I associated it with how the Nazi supporters find a common ground with Paul on this issue.
Our current conditions actually are free market, and it has been corporatist policy for quite some time now. Do you mean to tell me you cant have a corporatist society while engaging in the free market? Because that is absolutely absurd. And there are many examples of the free-market in action in our country. The fact were home to some of worlds largest corporations that act on the interest of public shareholders and the like actually ties in with the ideology of the free-market. And if youre argument relies around the fact that our free-market is capped in some aspects, you have to be kidding yourself in believing the free-market can yield the best results is no different than a purse socialist saying the government can do the same. I actually go to an Ivy League school, so dont give me any shit on that or my understanding of economics. When a free-market exist, prices do stay low. But then economic policy comes in and so forth. For example, the outsourcing of jobs to different countries has created an outcry by those severely affected, and politicians have taken steps to tax and punish those. The economy and out political system work hand in hand. I also agree that higher wages should be paid to better workers, and I do not believe in seniority rule because IMO it is an enabler for individuals to not make an attempt to stay up to date with technological and advances with in their field, but rather rely on their unions or a clause in their contract stating so. And if the cost of turnover is worth it and the job is very low skilled, like many in our country, than a business wont give a shit.
You mean to tell me that the discriminatory policies outweigh the rest of the Civil Rights Act, really? And I understand that government regulations got in the way of the housing, but the businesses were also to blame with their handling of taking on more than they had to. This wasnt a case of we had to do it because the government said so, but rather it was an attempt to meet bottom lines and beat older bench marks year after year without regard for long-term growth because CEOs and large shareholders cared more about the price of the stock than the stability of their business. And your black and white thinking puts us in a carriage where you can only be anti or pro free-market? Grow up. A total free-market is incapable of attending to the needs of the citizens. And as for the Feds working with monetary policy, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. A monetary policy and central bank is needed for banks to function properly. Plenty of academic economists agree with that when it comes to combating recessions and periods of uncertainty. As for economics, you seem to only think that the free-market is best. Only shows you havent done enough thinking or reading.
It amazes me the ignorance of some people. I give an example of lost rights and you ignore it. Why are you commenting when you're head is obviously in the sand. Have you not heard the stories of police trying to use the "wiretap" law to stop you from filming them?
Because of ONE instance that means freedom of speech has not been halted????
You do not follow Ron Paul or understand his politics enough to comment on them when you say something silly like "he wont use it against them". Anyone who follows Ron Pauls policies understands he is against what the Neo Nazis represent. It doesn't surprise you don't see that because like I stated you do not understand Ron Pauls policies and the reasons behind them.
You line of reasoning is idiotic. Please find me the ONE hate group that is in complete disagreement on the issues with any politician. You cannot. You CAN however look at the reasons behind the policies that is the difference. You refuse to see even that although those reasons are as plain as the nose on your face.
lmao where did I allude to that. Like I said you don't get it.
You don't get it. The free market decides what is best. This has proven to be true time and time again through history. Not bought and paid for agenda filled politicians.
get your money back you didn't learn much
You don't fully get it. You even say prices stay low then economic policies come in and so forth. The point of the free market is to NOT have government interference. With government interference comes instability. History has shown us this time and time again. The housing crisis is just the latest of government manipulation gone bad. The bust is a lot worse than what is gained from the boom.
Why do you think companies move overseas? I don't blame them. The federal government steals their money. Foreign countries are smart. They get the American companies over there and do not tax them as long as the product is shipped out of the country.
I noticed you ignored the FACT that government has been responsible for discriminatory practices. I will never ignore that fact.
The free market tells us in the long run the discriminatory businesses will suffer through lost revenue because they have a smaller client base. You have no respect for property rights. A major part of our foundation.
they knew they would get bailed out. To be sure their is plenty of blame to go around. Maybe you don't understand human behavior, but people are unscrupulous and do take advantage of things. That is why we are a nation of laws and not of men.
why because you say so. You want us to ignore the facts that our history has shown otherwise.
LMAO Oh sure the Fed is a good thing. You have absolutely no clue. The more the fed gets involved the worse it gets. It is through their manipulation that we have this depression. Same thing for the depression in the 30's. The reason there are periods of uncertainty is BECAUSE of the Fed. Which way will they go to manipulate the money supply this time?? WE DONT KNOW BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRANSPARENCY. People want certainty through the free market. They don't want the booms and busts the Fed causes.
btw a central bank is used to finance wars, something else you don't know
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Parker it always amazes me how you pretend to understand everything, and that other people cannot possibly have better conclusions than yourself.
There is not much point trying to show you how little you know or understand about the fed, like during the depression they did exactly what people like yourself said they should do and allowed the banking panic to happen by doing so little to stop it, nor that we have been in a far more stable economy than we had before the gd.
Nor that your understanding of the free market is sadly misinformed. You should google the edge worth box, or game theory and take some time to read about it. The decisions we make when in a competitive environment is usually not the best outcome because of the fact people tend to look out for themselves, which leads to not working together and less benefits than they could have gotten.
But whats the point right, chances are your reply will go something like this (if I even get one right):
-you're ignorant, how can people believe this crap. Here is what I believe with virtually all anecdotal evidence.
There is not much point trying to show you how little you know or understand about the fed, like during the depression they did exactly what people like yourself said they should do and allowed the banking panic to happen by doing so little to stop it, nor that we have been in a far more stable economy than we had before the gd.
Nor that your understanding of the free market is sadly misinformed. You should google the edge worth box, or game theory and take some time to read about it. The decisions we make when in a competitive environment is usually not the best outcome because of the fact people tend to look out for themselves, which leads to not working together and less benefits than they could have gotten.
But whats the point right, chances are your reply will go something like this (if I even get one right):
-you're ignorant, how can people believe this crap. Here is what I believe with virtually all anecdotal evidence.
your false interpretation is not my fault it is yours. The issue is never about me no matter how hard you try to make it. The general conclusions are not mine. The general conclusions are of the people who have been proven to be correct.
People can paint a wonderful picture but that doesn't make it the truth.
you missed the point. The depression happened BECAUSE of the Feds actions. "Free money" causes people to act drunk. Prices do not follow the usual supply and demand of the real free market. We saw that with the housing industry and we still see it in the area of funding for colleges here. The actions of FDR is what caused the depression to last NOT the FED. Anytime you manipulate the market you cause a boom and bust cycle. The bust is always worse than the good the boom did. This has been proven time and time again. How can people ignore history?? How often do we have to return to the poisonous well before we get it?
You try to make YOUR failed understanding of what did happen and try to make it about me. It is rather easy for me to find the answers when it comes to economics. The answer is too let you and me decide what is best and NOT have an entity decide what is good for us. Like YOU said, people look out for themselves, which they should imo, So why should I be okay with the ones on Capital Hill who overstep their authority under the guise of helping. They don't have a very good track record now do they? I have yet to find anyone who looks out better for me than me.
I'll repeat myself. If manipulation of the market causes booms and busts, which we know to be bad, why allow it to continue.
You fail to take into account human nature. "If only people acted responsible bad things wouldn't happen." We have the answers but refuse to follow them. The immoral government itself works against your best interests. Rules that may have good intentions, end up prohibiting us from reaping the fruits of our labor.
Life is easy. But because of human nature the application is hard. I mentioned this to you in a previous thread when u wanted to create jobs for the current low income people to move up so as to make it worth our while for the US to allow the low income illegals into our system and make them legal. Your intentions were very noble. You yourself came across as not trying to make money off the idea unless I missed something. But what you mentioned doesn't work.
as an example the Fed is currently manipulating the market. They are still doing quantitative easing even though it was supposed to stop in March or April. The Fed has continued to monetize Wall Street’s debts every options expiration week since QE 1 officially ended. The Fed has always made its largest capital contributions during options expiration weeks. They pumped in 31 billion on April 15th. The week before 420 million. Two week after, withdrew 16 billion.
Why would stocks go up in this climate? Prices are going up because of inflation, meaning obviously our purchasing power is going down. People are not getting hired, so why? We want certainty. The Bush tax issue is still undecided. Why would businesses want to expand now?
"don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining"
Some people obviously believe that the education in economics they are receiving in University is an actual science. Unfortunately every Economist that has an official government title or are attached to some institute of higher learning can only parrot what they have learned, just look at the record of bad forecasting they do. Not a single one can ever tell you what is going to happen next because they do not have the necessary tools to make an accurate prediction, ever. They were taught to support the central bank in everything it does, even if the Central Bank is the cause of all economic destruction. They cannot see beyond the theories they were taught, they do not understand that the economics that is taught in todays schools is a complete fabrication. All the people who accurately predict what is going to happen next are NEVER Harvard/Yale/Stanford graduates, because those schools do not teach actual material that has a grasp on reality. They will all parrot the Fed and the Government and tell you that the US moved out of recession last year and that we are well on the road to recovery. None of them will tell you that massive inflation is headed your way and will be ruinous to a huge number of people, because they cannot see the forest because of all the trees. The Stock markets are kept aloft by the Fed and the Plunge Protection Scheme. All economic statistics are massaged and false, Unemployment numbers are continually revised every week, always for the worse. Predictions are always wrong because the data being used is wrong. The Fed has failed in every sense of the word. Does anyone even know what the mission of the fed is?
Lets see, by the first measure they are a total 100% failure, the dollar has lost 96% of its value, causing prices to skyrocket, hardly sable at all. Official unemployment is around 10%, unofficially its at 22%, hardly Maximum employment. Zero Interest Rate policy, hardly moderate at all and it will blow another bubble that none of you Keyensian taught folks will ever see.
Supervise and Regulate banks? LOL you mean enable massive fraud?
The last stop on the bailout train is the Fed, isn't it wonderful to know that your tax money will go to keep other FOREIGN institutions running?
- conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
- supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
- maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
- providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system
Lets see, by the first measure they are a total 100% failure, the dollar has lost 96% of its value, causing prices to skyrocket, hardly sable at all. Official unemployment is around 10%, unofficially its at 22%, hardly Maximum employment. Zero Interest Rate policy, hardly moderate at all and it will blow another bubble that none of you Keyensian taught folks will ever see.
Supervise and Regulate banks? LOL you mean enable massive fraud?
The last stop on the bailout train is the Fed, isn't it wonderful to know that your tax money will go to keep other FOREIGN institutions running?
no civil liberties lost here, nothing to see, move along
http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/pa.-homeland-security-head-resigns-amid-controversy-over-tracking-of-activi
The Pennsylvania Homeland Security director who hired an anti-terrorism contractor to monitor threats to state infrastructure resigned today, just weeks after confidential intelligence bulletins produced by the contractor showed surveillance of gas drilling opponents and an array of activist groups and protestors.
"Jim is a good man who made a very significant mistake in judgment," Gov. Ed Rendell said as he announced Powers' resignation, in comments reported by The Philadelphia Inquirer. Rendell said the choice to step down was made by Powers.
As we’ve noted, Powers, apologized at a hearing this week to the groups and individuals who felt their constitutional rights were violated. At the same time, Powers stood by his decision to authorize the contract with the Institute of Terrorism Research and Response, saying, “I still feel what we were doing was right for the people.”
Top officials of the Pennsylvania State Police had sharply criticized the intelligence bulletins, calling the documents “unsubstantiated gossip” and the work of “amateurs.” One lawmaker at this week’s hearing called for Powers to be fired.
Gov. Rendell had refused to fire Powers, but last month Rendell also said that upon learning of the matter, he was “deeply embarrassed” and “appalled” by the contract and the type of free-speech activities his state was monitoring.
http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/pa.-homeland-security-head-resigns-amid-controversy-over-tracking-of-activi
The Pennsylvania Homeland Security director who hired an anti-terrorism contractor to monitor threats to state infrastructure resigned today, just weeks after confidential intelligence bulletins produced by the contractor showed surveillance of gas drilling opponents and an array of activist groups and protestors.
"Jim is a good man who made a very significant mistake in judgment," Gov. Ed Rendell said as he announced Powers' resignation, in comments reported by The Philadelphia Inquirer. Rendell said the choice to step down was made by Powers.
As we’ve noted, Powers, apologized at a hearing this week to the groups and individuals who felt their constitutional rights were violated. At the same time, Powers stood by his decision to authorize the contract with the Institute of Terrorism Research and Response, saying, “I still feel what we were doing was right for the people.”
Top officials of the Pennsylvania State Police had sharply criticized the intelligence bulletins, calling the documents “unsubstantiated gossip” and the work of “amateurs.” One lawmaker at this week’s hearing called for Powers to be fired.
Gov. Rendell had refused to fire Powers, but last month Rendell also said that upon learning of the matter, he was “deeply embarrassed” and “appalled” by the contract and the type of free-speech activities his state was monitoring.
The Mastermind
Member
You gave me an example? You told me to look around.
Whether it be from local communities here or on campus, I can't recall a time when speech has been completely halted. I provided an example, pertaining to this thread. The anti-Mosque demonstrations, the planned Quran burning (later called off), and a bunch of others have occurred. What are you going on about???
I started getting into the libertarian ideology when I was sometime in high school. From Bob Barr to Ron Paul, I looked them up and came to the conclusion that socially I can't argue with them, but economically it is not sound. Their reliance on the free-market to fix everything just does not work. Our country largely started as very free-market and transformed into what we have today. Please don't sit there and think I don't do my homework or critical thinking before engaging in anything.
I have no conceivable idea of what you're trying to say.
Through inference by reading your posts.
You really need to open up an economics text book. Not as many things can be proven in economics as you think. The economy is not something that can be put into a lab, with the right sample size, and you can produce objective results. Not a science experiment. And if you so surely have proof that the "when the market decides" is best, can you show it to me? Believing that the market cannot fail is like a hardcore socialist believing government control can't fail. Both are idiots and so bias to their own beliefs that it teeters on the same edge that is religious extremism.
Why do you care about what I did with my money? Were you able at any point to get into a school such as that? Did you even graduate high school? By the way, I'll probably fare a lot better economically than your crazy free-market loving ass. Statistics got my back.
Yes, competition is fine at times and prices do stay low. Look at Netflix and blockbuster, or cars, or phone companies, etc. But there are instances when that does not occur, where oligopolies and monopolies form and have the power to dictate prices. And the government doesn't steal their money. They voluntarily set up shop here understanding the tax code and do business accordingly. And the housing crisis was a combination of both government and business neglect.
Which discriminatory practices are you referring to exactly? And your theory on free-market and discrimination applies only when the discriminated is a minority group.
Conspiracy theory.
What fucking history book have you been reading, really? You make it sound like our current modern economy can be in anyway tied to that of the 1600s-early 1900s. Are you serious?
Conspiracy. Conspiracy. Consiracy. Booms and busts, worst than those we've come across, occurred well before the Fed's creation.
Conspiracy theorist = confirmed.
The Mastermind
Member
I'm guessing the people who were protesting were against fracking, and the individual who resigned thought they were a terrorist threat. And he engaged in illegal surveillance and got caught. So what are you trying to at? An isolated incident is now supposed to be foundation for a perceived threat to all of our freedom?
The Mastermind
Member
Actually anybody that holds a PhD in economics has most likely dabbled from many economic schools of thoughts. And there were plenty of economists that actually saw a recession occur (because shit, it is cyclical!). There have always been those that have poked their head out and for years continue to say something awful will happen, and through chance and coincidence it does occur. Then they start to raise their hands and call for attention because they got it right. The same thing happened in this case.
I don't at all believe the fed is a failure. They do need to be audited though.
And what kind of index are you comparing the dollar to? And what prices have skyrocketed? And it is actually pretty damn stable and gotten stronger over time. And I haven't heard the 22% number at all. I've seen it hover around 14-15%.
And you're a conspiracy theorists. So what is the point of arguing?
budsmoker87
New Member
all basic commodities are skyrocketing against the dollar...it's falling like a stone. we've had a 6% average annual hike in food prices before the recession/depression began. i just read an article about how WALMART'S food prices just went up 2% in the last month alone.
all of which leads me to believe that the only way to retain the purchasing power of my money is to invest my dollars into REAL things of value- commodities like metals, agriculture, land, etc.
budsmoker87
New Member
the fed is a complete and utter failure...everyone should question the function of these "financial insitutions"...realize WHO gains from currency devaluation through inflation, and how real wealth is consolidated through the scheme...
these banks are the wealthiest businesses in the country/world...and what services/goods/resources do they provide? ..."credit"? LOL
these banks are the wealthiest businesses in the country/world...and what services/goods/resources do they provide? ..."credit"? LOL
You didn't say one thing of substance in this paragraph. Because YOU said the free market does not work does not make it true. Proof. Put up or shut up time.
again you're just a talking head. You spout out things that have no basis or reason for it. Why don't you look at Honk Kong for a free market example. Where are their resources? Anyone who thinks the free market can't work is arrogant. They think THEY have the answers. Never mind what millions of people themselves value a product at a certain price. We need people like YOU to sit in an office and decide for us. The gall of arrogant people never ceases to amaze me.
oh sure I believe you. What's not to believe from some hack on the internet. The statement itself is idiotic and just shows you the comments of arrogant people who seem to know what is good for others as well as the economic and educational status of someone from the internet. YOU know best. lmao This doesn't surprise me as your posts show you do not scratch the surface. Why someone born with a silver spoon in their mouth knows best. Like I said pure arrogance. I wish I could buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth.
who are you to decide what prices are low enough for EVERYONE else? Who are you to decide what is the best market price for a company? Like I said pure arrogance.
sigh..... It was not business neglect. It was business greed fueled by the no fail policies Congress set up. They KNEW they would be bailed out. They KNEW their losses would be covered.
You know who else knew? Ron Paul and the rest of the ones who follow Mises. This is a bill Ron Paul sponsored in 2002
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h108-3071
summary
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h108-3071&tab=summary.
Dear lord you say you are informed yet you have to ask that question. Who do you think came out with Jim Crow laws? answer government Do you actually think the bus companies who relied on minorities for business wanted to insult their customers??
"In the 1960s and before, many southern states had laws which required owners of restaurants, trolley cars, and other service companies to segregate black patrons from white. Many of these business owners disliked the laws, as they made it more expensive to do business and lowered profits from blacks who often chose to patronize all-black businesses instead. As soon as the mandatory segregation laws were repealed, most of these businesses integrated on their own without any need for legal action by the federal government."
another falsehood by you with no substance discrimination and it's effects on the economy are not limited to minorities
lmao getting desperate now aren't we
Again, that is your false interpretation. You have such a weak argument,
You fail to understand how the free market works. When unencumbered the free market works. To be sure, if someone can make it less expensively and make money they will.
YOU are the one mentioning conspiracy, not me. You put words in my mouth, like you make up facts in your head. The crashes occur because of government manipulation. So even though the Fed caused the crash they are still needed because....... nice theory hack
LMAO A hack who has to make things up because his point is weak, confirmed
This has to be one of the most idiotic baseless comments I've seen. That's the first time I've heard ANYONE mention that a believer in the Fed causing crashes is a conspiracy theorist
not only should you get your money back, you should sue the school
btw I don't believe you are from an Ivy league school
agreed. The "inflation tax" is hitting us hard now.
Like I said you refuse to get it. You are so uninformed about what our liberties are, that you don't have a clue. I mentioned the Patriot Act and because YOU incorrectly feel it doesn't affect YOU, you don't see a problem. Liberty is for all not for YOUR ideals. Read the Constitution.
I've given a few example of liberties lost. Because you are so blinded and have an agenda of "wanting to be right" you cannot see the truth. Is your cell phone being tracked? no Well then that's okay because even though others are being tracked YOUR liberties are not lost. And it's all about YOU isn't it? WAKE UP!!!!!!!
Well looks like you have no idea what you are talking about, you must have been edumacated in the woods right? The dollar is stable ? Look here is the USDX, you may want to look up what the dollar index is, because it is painfully obvious you do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about. The dollar has been losing value for 97 years, NEVER during this time was it stable. Do you know what inflation is? Care to define it without giving me some text book answer?
You see that graph? your dollar is losing all of its value. You are SOOOOOOOOOO WRONG about the stability of prices I wonder if you have even the most rudimentary idea of what a dollar even is. It has gotten MUCH WEAKER over time, not stable at all. Like I said you don't have a clue and because you don't have a clue it is very easy to dismiss your arguments as those of someone who knows nothing about this subject, its OBVIOUS!!Prices skyrocketing? well lets see now shall we :
*Agricultural Raw Materials: 24%
*Industrial Inputs Index: 25%
*Metals Price Index: 26%
*Coffee: 45%
*Barley: 32%
*Oranges: 35%
*Beef: 23%
*Pork: 68%
*Salmon: 30%
*Sugar: 24%
*Wool: 20%
*Cotton: 40%
*Palm Oil: 26%
*Hides: 25%
*Rubber: 62%
*Iron Ore: 103%
Thats just the last year.*Industrial Inputs Index: 25%
*Metals Price Index: 26%
*Coffee: 45%
*Barley: 32%
*Oranges: 35%
*Beef: 23%
*Pork: 68%
*Salmon: 30%
*Sugar: 24%
*Wool: 20%
*Cotton: 40%
*Palm Oil: 26%
*Hides: 25%
*Rubber: 62%
*Iron Ore: 103%
Care to take a guess what bubble the fed is blowing right now? Im sure you don't have a clue, just as you have no idea about the dollar or the inflationary crisis we are headed into.
You sure as hell didn't go to an ivy league school, unless you thought that to qualify all you need is some ivy growing on the wall. Most likely you just went to a community college or one time read a small pamphlet on economics and now you think you know something.
The conspiracy theorist crack doesn't mean anything, it doesn't take away from the fact that you are so very wrong when it come to these arguments. You bring no proof or even a shred of complimentary evidence to back up your false claims, all you bring are easy to disprove statements of no substance.
The worst economic crisis the US has been in was the Great Depression, the Fed had already been created 20 years prior. Where did you learn your history?
dummy=confirmed
Dmitri Medvedev
Member
You really are lost. I'm not making fun of you. Most of the American people & the world for that matter have NO idea,
how everything really works. Ron Paul is a PATRIOT if there ever was one. Do yourself a favor & research instead of listening to "Group Thinking"
Find out what the Federal Reserve is & who congressman Louis T. Mcfadden was & how he died,and most interestingly what he was trying to do before he died.
Free your mind. Don't be an ass.
how everything really works. Ron Paul is a PATRIOT if there ever was one. Do yourself a favor & research instead of listening to "Group Thinking"
Find out what the Federal Reserve is & who congressman Louis T. Mcfadden was & how he died,and most interestingly what he was trying to do before he died.
Free your mind. Don't be an ass.
Tyrannabudz
Well-Known Member
Rest assured there is not a single politician in the universe who isn't crooked. Those in any position of real power (which is none) are selected not elected. Who exactly does control everything. The new world order AKA the UN. Our supposed gov't matters not, it is a farce. As all others are as well.