Opinions on my soil recycling amendments

I wouldn't use happy frog or fox farm as your base, they are not quality soils and they are not organic.

Yodaweed said:

I wouldn't use happy frog or fox farm as your base, they are not quality soils and they are not organic.

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I know, I said it right from the start. It's what I already have so I'm using it. I figure it'll be close enough after a few runs. Isn't that what we do, turn shitty soil into a good soil?

WeedFreak78 said:

I know, I said it right from the start. It's what I already have so I'm using it. I figure it'll be close enough after a few runs. Isn't that what we do, turn shitty soil into a good soil?

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You can get a large amount of quality base for less than 15$, it's just not worth starting with inorganic crap and trying to make it better, just go get a bale of peat moss for 13.99 at home depot or lowes.

Yodaweed said:

You can get a large amount of quality base for less than 15$, it's just not worth starting with inorganic crap and trying to make it better, just go get a bale of peat moss for 13.99 at home depot or lowes.

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I've thought about it, but this is just one batch, there's more and I'm on a budget. If I planned better, I woulda started that way, but I didn't. I just did an estimate, $40 for the amount of peat i need, another 40 for EWC, another 20 for rice hulls, about 40 or so in amendments.. that just gets me to where I'm already at with the used FF. It doesn't make sense to me to throw out soil when it can be fixed, if it needs it.

I know its not certified, but I haven't read anything that makes me think it's not a good soil. I've read a forum post, with a supposed soil test, that says they maybe spray it with ammonium nitrate. I've also read a, transcribed, email from FF saying they don't and they just didn't want to pay for the certs., so IDK. If its sprayed, it'll break down and/or be leached out. In, what is it, 7 years? I can call it organic.

WeedFreak78 said:

I've thought about it, but this is just one batch, there's more and I'm on a budget. If I planned better, I woulda started that way, but I didn't. I just did an estimate, $40 for the amount of peat i need, another 40 for EWC, another 20 for rice hulls, about 40 or so in amendments.. that just gets me to where I'm already at with the used FF. It doesn't make sense to me to throw out soil when it can be fixed, if it needs it.

I know its not certified, but I haven't read anything that makes me think it's not a good soil. I've read a forum post, with a supposed soil test, that says they maybe spray it with ammonium nitrate. I've also read a, transcribed, email from FF saying they don't and they just didn't want to pay for the certs., so IDK. If its sprayed, it'll break down and/or be leached out. In, what is it, 7 years? I can call it organic.

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That's a lie, they can afford cert , smaller companies get OMRI listing they don't cause their soil has ammonium nitrate and synthetic urea in it so it's actually not organic and wouldn't meet minimum requirements. Also you can get a bale of peat that expands for 13$.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SunShine-3-cu-ft-Peat-Moss-3001-CFC003P/205883917

Anyways as you can see i hate fox farm and all their soils, it's all soil for noobs and lazy people.

Yodaweed said:

You can get a large amount of quality base for less than 15$, it's just not worth starting with inorganic crap and trying to make it better, just go get a bale of peat moss for 13.99 at home depot or lowes.

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I'm not disagreeing with you here, just wanna say, holy shit in the past everytime I pick up straight peat from homedepot for example, fucking bugs always fly out of it.. fuckers keeping it outside is not the best. even promix from them.. pisses me off, because I'd rather get it from these big box stores than hydro shop.. grrrr.. for the price, and anonymity.. grrrrr x2

WeedFreak78 said:

All my measurements were based off the package. I noticed other recipes used much more of those, as well as others, also. I was staying conservative because it will be recycled over, at least, a few times, if not kept going in perpetual use.

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If you are really planning on using this mix several times or perpetual, those rice hulls are just not a good idea for aeration. They tend to break down and decompose in 3 - 6 months and turn your mix into a soggy mess.

I know that perlite isn't 'cool' ATM with all the wild hate floating around (WTF is that all about?), but no, it doesn't all work its way out of the mix and float to the surface. No, it doesn't all break down and sink to the bottom and form a concrete like layer (WTF, does it sink or float? Haters can't decide). No, it doesn't cause cancer (the dust IS an irritant, wear a dust mask).

It IS cheaper and easier to work with than any of the "designer" aeration amendments. Perhaps that is the problem, too old school, cheap and reliable to be cool. IDK

All this is not opinion, but 45+ years of experience using perlite.

Still, use whatever blows your skirt up, just not rice hulls.

Or, use the rice hulls and find out from experience. Your call. I'm just sharing my experience.

Johnei said:

I'm not disagreeing with you here, just wanna say, holy shit in the past everytime I pick up straight peat from homedepot for example, fucking bugs always fly out of it.. fuckers keeping it outside is not the best. even promix from them.. pisses me off, because I'd rather get it from these big box stores than hydro shop.. grrrr.. for the price, and anonymity.. grrrrr x2

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Get it early in the season is my advice cause they keep that shit outdoors here all years so you are totally right.

Little update. This soil cooked for 5 weeks and had mycelium patches all over the surface when I went to use it. Plants have been in for about a week, just went into flower Friday and looking good so far. I watered them in with a very weak fish fert/ sea weed solution, for the enzymes, and some hydroguard. They're only getting RO water from here on out, hoping it carries me through, that was the point off this mix.

This is the most recent recipe, I wish i could edit or delete those other ones. The amount of alfalfa meal is the only thing that changed from the last recipe i posted. I don't remember which amount was the one I calculated , but this is what I mixed:

Base soil - USED 50/50 mix of fox farm ocean forest(1.5cuft) and happy frog(2.0cu ft), with 20% rice hulls. Approximate total amount of USED soil being amended = 4cu ft, 30 gal, 80lbs

Amendments:

Appx. 10lbs EWC (0.75cu ft)
Appx. 10lbs lobster compost (0 .75cu ft)
3 cups blood meal
3 cups bone meal
3 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups kelp meal
1 cup oyster shell
1 cup crab shell
1 cup Espoma garden- tone*
1 cup rock phosphate
0.5 cup azomite
0.5 cup Greensand
0.5 cup dolomite lime
1Tbsp granular humic acid
1 Tbsp mykos
Old plant material from previous grows.
I mixed this in a 54 Gal Rubbermaid tote. I mixed all the dry amendments in a 5 gal bucket. Then, in the tote, I layered: dirt, dry amendment mix, dirt, EWC, dirt, lobster compost, then i just repeated that order and i threw the plant matter in randomly. After half the soil was used, I mixed it up by hand. Then I did layers again till I was out of dirt. Mixed the top half layers together, then mixed it all together. Watered with about 1.5-2 gallons of 1/4 strength fish fert/ sea weed solution.
Cooked for 5 weeks. Turned every week. (I suggest a second tote to transfer it to)
Add 20-25% Rice hulls before using. I mixed the dirt and rice hulls in a separate tote as I needed it.

You'll end up with around 40-45 gals of soil after amending. This is all you can comfortably fit in the 54 Gal tote because it will fluff up a little with mixing. With the rice hulls it looks like there'll be 50+gals of soil.

*Espoma garden- tone
Derived from: Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry
Manure, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates,
Sulfate of Potash, and Sulfate of Potash Magnesia.
*Contains 2.2% Slow Release Nitrogen.
ALSO CONTAINS NON PLANT FOOD INGREDIENTS:
Contains 624 colony forming units (CFU’s) per gram of the
following species:
Bacillus licheniformis . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus megaterium . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’sper gram
Bacillus pumilus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram

So when I go to reamend this soil in 8-10 weeks, do I need to cut back on the amendments or throw them in full strength again?

I'll be going into my 3rd recycle of this soil in a few weeks. I replaced the rice hulls with perlite after the 2nd recycle. @Wetdog was right about them and i could tell they'd start causing problems if I kept adding more. I'm starting to add some base peat and chunk coco also this round to fluff it back up. I'm starting to look for something to swap out the lobster compost with for a couple rounds, just for some diversity.

I started to see some issues this run, looked to me like Mg or K, so I grabbed a cheap soil test kit. Tested the mix that just finished it's cook cycle which I'm about to use, and it says I'm almost completely depleted of potassium, plenty of nitrogen and phosphorous. Any recommendations? Looks like sulfate of potash would be good or langbenite? From what I've been reading, I'm leaning to the sulfate because I'd like the extra sulphur and magnesium. I've seen improvements when I used a magnesium sulfate additive a couple times, so can I kill 2 birds with sulfate of potash? I'll cut back on the rock phosphate with either one probably since that's going to be around for awhile.

This is the mix I tested, 2nd recycle, changes from previous mix marked with*:

Base soil is twice recycled 50/50 mix of fox farm ocean forest(1.5cuft) and happy frog(2.0cu ft), with 20% rice hulls. Approximate total amount of recycled soil being amended = 4cu ft, 30 gal, 80lbs

Amendments:

30lb bag EWC*
1cuft bag ,appx. 30lbs, lobster compost*
3 cups blood meal
3 cups bone meal
3 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups kelp meal
1 cup oyster shell
1 cup crab shell
1 cup Espoma garden-tone
1 cup rock phosphate
0.5 cup azomite
0.5 cup Greensand
0.5 cup dolomite lime
1Tbsp granular humic acid
1 Tbsp mykos
2-3 gallons old plant material from previous grow.

From here on out I'll be adding 5gals of a peat/ chunk coco to the mix for a couple recycles

I've started watering with tap water right out of the faucet and top dressing with langbenite at transplant and everything's looking lush and packing weight. From what I've read, with the langbenite being so soluble, its not great to mix into the soil.

Anyone ever take soil samples going into flower then from the depleted soil after harvest? It'd be interesting to see what and, how much, its being used.

Still going strong ,changed it up a little, red is changes :

Approximate total amount of recycled soil being amended = 4cu ft, 30 gal, 80lbs

Amendments:

30lb bag EWC
1cuft bag ,appx. 30lbs, compost( I use lobster, but any good compost would work)
1.5 cups soybean meal
1.5 cup crab meal
3 cups bone meal
3 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups kelp meal
1 cup oyster shell
1 cup crab shell
1 cup Espoma garden-tone
1 cup rock phosphate
0.5 cup azomite
0.5 cup Greensand
0.5 cup dolomite lime
1Tbsp granular humic acid
2-3 gallons homemade compost ( old plant material from previous grow)

I stopped using blood meal @12-0-0 and replaced it with soybean and crab meal, which combined, gives a 11-4-2. I was still a little N heavy, so I'm hoping that balances it out a little better. I want to replace the bone meal too, just haven't found anything yet.

I also stopped adding 1 Tbsp mykos and only apply it at transplant.

I also mixed in about 5-7 gallons of activated biochar in the last 2 batches, about 100 gals, of soil. That's gonna be a one time addition. I've also been topping the batches with old oats I had which really helps the mycelium when it's cooking.

I'm planning on going no till with this soil in the next few months, it's the next logical step.