optimal watt / square foot or m2

Olive Drab Green · Nov 7, 2016

Bolof said:
Lower intensities are more efficient = the answer to my question. BUT that require lots of space. It is not a "balanced" approach.

Efficient, as in uses less energy. That doesn't mean it produces a lot of bud. Maybe a few ounces, if you're good at what you do.

Bolof · Nov 7, 2016

Olive Drab Green said:
You have been saying "600PPFD is acceptable." I think you should aim higher. Why waste your time on 60% of a plant?

Yes, probably, but given the scenario of limited power and unlimited space I should not.

Bolof · Nov 7, 2016

Olive Drab Green said:
Efficient, as in uses less energy. That doesn't mean it produces a lot of bud. Maybe a few ounces, if you're good at what you do.

Right. It it gives very little bud it is not good of course. I want max product / watt. That is the goal.

Trippyness · Nov 7, 2016

Shugglet said:
For every unit of ppfd you add between 100 and 300 ppfd you get an additional .1% photo rate.

For ever unit of ppfd you add between 300 and 600 you get an additional .1% photo rate.

By your logic, you should stop even earlier then, because for every ppfd you add between 0 and 100 you gain .18% Roughly twice the return on ppfd than even 100-300.

Even if you use a zero baseline for 300ppfd you gain .157% per unit increase vs a .128% increase for ever unit at 600ppfd.

After 600ppfd the chart flattens out so diminishing returns start significantly cutting into efficiency.

After 900 your diminish returns.
I am currently running a test right now on 900 vs 600PPFD for yield in same environment.
Will post my results when finished to finally close the debate.
More photos = more growth.
@Rahz should be able to chime in here.

Trippyness · Nov 7, 2016

Bolof said:
I will rebuild the house, so it is just a plan for now. But after it is rebuilt I cannot expand the space. 20 - 40 m2 basement is possible.

Whats your budget?
If youve got that large of a space I would honestly go DE HPS ( Nanolux or custom either ACDE hoods or King Wing) unless you can afford COB ( Citi COBS are a great choice or Cree if you want lower wattage but are hella expensive).
If going DE I would use movers with HID for increased spread and a small bit less wattage.
If I were to run commercial and had unliited budget id run COB otherwise id Go DE.

Olive Drab Green · Nov 7, 2016

Trippyness said:
After 900 your diminish returns.
I am currently running a test right now on 900 vs 600PPFD for yield in same environment.
Will post my results when finished to finally close the debate.
More photos = more growth.
@Rahz should be able to chime in here.

Right. My closet's got a little 900PPFD for the whole 4x2 feet of it. Got all three of my COBs from Rahz/Tasty. 900-1100 is pretty much the sweet spot.

Rahz · Nov 7, 2016

Trippyness said:
After 900 your diminish returns.
I am currently running a test right now on 900 vs 600PPFD for yield in same environment.
Will post my results when finished to finally close the debate.
More photos = more growth.
@Rahz should be able to chime in here.

If someone has plenty of space and some electrical restrictions then sure, low PPFD would provide the highest return per unit of electricity, but the curve is definitely not flat past 600. If someone has limited space and want's to maximize it I would recommend getting closer to 1000.

Shugglet · Nov 7, 2016

I think you have a fundamental Mis understanding of how optimization works. costs for instance are Paramount in optimization and no I'm not talking dollar costs.

do you understand how to manipulate ppfd of a setup once it is up and running?

Olive Drab Green · Nov 7, 2016

Shugglet said:
I think you have a fundamental Mis understanding of how optimization works. costs for instance are Paramount in optimization and no I'm not talking dollar costs.

do you understand how to manipulate ppfd of a setup once it is up and running?

Are you talking to Rahz? Because he manufactures horticultural COB fixtures and has a proper spectrometer to test PAR and all factors involved. If you think it's Rahz who doesn't understand, I think you're seriously confused.

Shugglet · Nov 7, 2016

Olive Drab Green said:
Are you talking to Rahz? Because he manufactures horticultural COB fixtures and has a proper spectrometer to test PAR and all factors involved. If you think it's Rahz who doesn't understand, I think you're seriously confused.

Lol I'm talking to Mr bolof...

Case in point this whole thread I don't think he's realized that he's been trying to optimize for photosynthetic activity. after he decides that he still needs to optimize ppfd which is a whole different process not to mention how you manipulate ppfd can have a direct impact on how optimal it is...

Olive Drab Green · Nov 7, 2016

Shugglet said:
Lol I'm talking to Mr bolof...

Case in point this whole thread I don't think he's realized that he's been trying to optimize for photosynthetic activity. after he decides that he still needs to optimize ppfd which is a whole different process not to mention how you manipulate ppfd can have a direct impact on how optimal it is...

My bad, bro. Hard to tell sometimes. You're right, though.

Bolof · Nov 10, 2016

Shugglet said:
I think you have a fundamental Mis understanding of how optimization works. costs for instance are Paramount in optimization and no I'm not talking dollar costs.

do you understand how to manipulate ppfd of a setup once it is up and running?

Wow. You idiots never give up. Did you finish high school?

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 10, 2016

dude, you're just a fucking troll, or you're just a really unpleasant, ungrateful person and i refuse to waste any more time with you at all, goodbye.

Bolof · Nov 10, 2016

Shugglet said:
Lol I'm talking to Mr bolof...

Case in point this whole thread I don't think he's realized that he's been trying to optimize for photosynthetic activity. after he decides that he still needs to optimize ppfd which is a whole different process not to mention how you manipulate ppfd can have a direct impact on how optimal it is...

I understand exactly what I am looking for and the answers has been given. But you clearly dont have a clue still.

Bolof · Nov 10, 2016

Roger A. Shrubber said:
dude, you're just a fucking troll, or you're just a really unpleasant, ungrateful person and i refuse to waste any more time with you at all, goodbye.

I told you to fuck off several times. You are a stalker. I am only interested in intelligent answers to my question. So you have nothing to offer.

Olive Drab Green · Nov 10, 2016

Bolof said:
I understand exactly what I am looking for and the answers has been given. But you clearly dont have a clue still.

You understand you need more than 600 PPFD, right? I grew a plant under 420 PPFD before. Yielded an ounce for one plant ans two from the other. Waste of two seeds for 2-3 months' work. The fact is, though, you really can do better than that. And you should be trying to. Aim for 900-1000 PPFD minimum.

Bolof · Nov 10, 2016

Olive Drab Green said:
You understand you need more than 600 PPFD, right? I grew a plant under 420 PPFD before. Yielded an ounce for one plant ans two from the other. Waste of two seeds for 2-3 months' work. The fact is, though, you really can do better than that. And you should be trying to. Aim for 900-1000 PPFD minimum.

I don't realize that since I lack experience with practice. But in theory that is not the case. See the numbers posted before. And the case of unlimited space with limited power. I understand of course that higher PPFD yield more for area x.

Olive Drab Green · Nov 10, 2016

Bolof said:
I don't realize that since I lack experience with practice. But in theory that is not the case. See the numbers posted before. And the case of unlimited space with limited power. I understand of course that higher PPFD yield more for area x.

What I'm telling you is fact, man. I dunno what numbers you've seen, bt you should study a bit more.

Bolof · Nov 10, 2016

Olive Drab Green said:
What I'm telling you is fact, man. I dunno what numbers you've seen, bt you should study a bit more.

You among others have posted the numbers here. The same graph. I Will study more for sure. Tnx.

Olive Drab Green · Nov 10, 2016

For reference, these are the numbers that the levels of PPFD an HID puts out:

Super HPS 400V DE // 1000w

• For use with high frequency variable output 400V ballasts

PAR Value (umol/m2/s)
1000w = 2050

SUPER HPS // 1000w | 600w | 400w | 250w

PAR Value (umol/m2/s)
1000w = 2050
600w = 1160
400w = 700
250w = 410

SUPER METAL HALIDE // 600w | 400w | 250w

PAR Value (umol/m2/s)
600w = 600
400w = 300
250w = 170

optimal watt / square foot or m2

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