Umm #1 HOW is it a PH problem?
#2 I never used a ph meter... am I the %2? Wow, I must be a pro grower then!
Orange Rust Coloured Leaves? :S
- Thread starter frizzlegooch
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#2 I never used a ph meter... am I the %2? Wow, I must be a pro grower then!
TheGoodGrower
Active Member
I like the advice these guys are giving. I'd start by checking the pH. If you add more nutes and your pH is off, the roots wont absorb them so you're wasting your effort. PH pH pH pH pH.... always check pH. If you cant get a good meter and check the nutrients, at least get this cheap one and check the soil: http://www.amazon.com/BestDealUSA-Plant-Flowers-Tester-Moisture/dp/B006KY5OUG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391014069&sr=8-2&keywords=ph+light+moisture+meter
supchaka
Well-Known Member
The very first statement of your link is "Problem: A boron deficiency in cannabis is relatively rare, and is usually accompanied by other types of nutrient or pH problems."
I would lean towards PH and/or grandma's soil being the problem.
frizzlegooch
Well-Known Member
Looked all around town for a ph meter, cant find one .
Guess ill have to order.
Guess ill have to order.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Not to shit on everyone's "You must pH" advice, but it really isn't necessary when you're growing in soil unless your pH is REALLY far out of whack, like 3 or 9. In hydroponics it is very important because the plant only absorbs nutrients at a certain pH, when the way you are giving it nutrients in through a hydroponic system because you are feeding the plant itself. When you grow in soil, you aren't feeding the plant, you are feeding the soil, which in turn feeds the plant, and when the microbes in the soil give nutrients to the plant, it doesn't really matter what the surrounding area's pH is as long as it is within reason. If you are drenching with an extremely strong acid or base, you can still hurt it, but for the most part if your soil is alive, it will normalize to whatever it wants to be. A good analogy I read someone use is that growing in soil is like making a soup, and growing in hydro is like baking a cake. If you are making a soup, you can kinda just throw everything in, adjust for taste, etc. but if you are baking a cake you need everything to be perfect for the chemicals to react correctly, if one thing is off it won't rise or hold. That is why you only ever hear advice about pH in the cannabis community, where there is a LOT of hydro growing happening, whereas in the non-cannabis organic gardening community (A community I have been a part of MUCH longer) you could go a lifetime without hearing anyone mention pH, because your soil should and will be able to handle it no matter what the pH you are watering with. For soil, pH is a broad guideline, in hydro it is an absolute necessity. IMO, unless its extreme (less than 3 or greater than 9) the only problems pH will cause is the depletion of minerals due to the soil using them to buffer it, but that buffering will normalize the pH to whatever the soil wants, and when the soil is happy your plant will be happy.
frizzlegooch
Well-Known Member
Thats a very good analogy with the cake and soup ace,
But i am worried actually about things being to acidic. And like these folks pointed out it looks like a boron deficiency, and your plant absorbs boron optimally at 6.2 .
Ive heard a similar analogy with learning to drive and growing- hydro being a ferrari and soil being a small volkwagon. Way easier to crash and burn with hydro if youve never tried before , like with driving a ferrari the first time you drive but both vehicles get you there if you get the feel for it.
I'm not sure my soil is as happy as can be, its like its not suicidal or antisocial or clinically depressed, just a lil sad
But i am worried actually about things being to acidic. And like these folks pointed out it looks like a boron deficiency, and your plant absorbs boron optimally at 6.2 .
Ive heard a similar analogy with learning to drive and growing- hydro being a ferrari and soil being a small volkwagon. Way easier to crash and burn with hydro if youve never tried before , like with driving a ferrari the first time you drive but both vehicles get you there if you get the feel for it.
I'm not sure my soil is as happy as can be, its like its not suicidal or antisocial or clinically depressed, just a lil sad
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
I would take that analogy one step further and say you can also put in regular gas (un-pH'd water) into a Volkswagen and it will be fine, but you need supreme gas(perfect pH) for the Ferrari. My point was that the "optimal absorption pH" is for the root to directly uptake the given element from it's surroundings, but when your plant is growing in soil it generally has established symbiotic relationships with all kinds of fungi and bacteria in the soil that break down and transmit everything the plant needs directly to it, bypassing the need for the roots to absorb it from the environment in the same way. Think about it this way. Lets say you are lactose intolerant. You on your own, cannot digest lactose, so you get no benefit from it, much like a plant trying to absorb nutrients from a hydro solution that is at an incorrect pH. But lets say you start drinking kefir. Kefir adds beneficial microbes to your intestinal tract, much in the same way that there are beneficial bacteria in the soil. Some of the bacteria in kefir, like lactobacillus, will colonize your gut, where they will begin to digest lactose into lactic acid for you. YOU may be lactose intolerant, but now the new flora in your gut will do the digesting for you, allowing you to digest the lactose anyways. In the same way, the bacteria and fungi in the soil will break down and convert the nutrients in the soil into forms that the plant can readily uptake, so while the plant might not be able to absorb those nutrients at a given pH, the soil itself can and it will in turn allow the plant to.
frizzlegooch
Well-Known Member
Symbiotic relationships are that tight? Thats fuckin really cool , i never knew dat.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Some are, particularly the one formed between the root system and endo/ecto Mycorrhizae. Fungi are in some ways more similar to humans than plants, specifically in the way that they intake oxygen and output co2, while plants intake co2 and output oxygen, and so they often form mutualistic symbiosis with plants as each can supply what the other needs. This is a quote from Wikipedia on mycorrizhae (I know wiki might not be everyone's favorite source of knowledge but they sum up this point very succinctly, and I can assure you the research backs up their description. I have emboldened the most pertinent areas)
"Mycorrhizae form a mutualistic relationship with the roots of most plant species. While only a small proportion of all species has been examined, 95% of those plant families are predominantly mycorrhizal.[SUP][3][/SUP] They are named after their presence in the plant's rhizosphere (root system).
This mutualistic association provides the fungus with relatively constant and direct access to carbohydrates, such as glucose and sucrose.[SUP][4][/SUP] The carbohydrates are translocated from their source (usually leaves) to root tissue and on to the plant's fungal partners. In return, the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients due to the comparatively large surface area of mycelium: root ratio, thus improving the plant's mineral absorption capabilities.[SUP][5][/SUP]Plant roots alone may be incapable of taking up phosphate ions that are demineralized in soils with a basic pH. The mycelium of the mycorrhizal fungus can, however, access these phosphorus sources, and make them available to the plants they colonize.[SUP][6][/SUP] Nature, according to C.Michael Hogan, has adapted to this critical role of phosphate, by allowing many plants to recycle phosphate, without using soil as an intermediary. For example, in some dystrophic forests large amounts of phosphate are taken up by mycorrhizal hyphae acting directly on leaf litter, bypassing the need for soil uptake.[SUP][7][/SUP] Inga alley cropping, proposed as an alternative to slash and burn rainforest destruction,[SUP][8][/SUP] relies upon Mycorrhiza within the Inga Tree root system to prevent the rain from washing phosphorus out of the soil.[SUP][9][/SUP] In some cases, the transport of water, carbon, and nutrients could be done directly from plant to plant through mycorrhizal networks that are underground hyphal networks created by mycorrhizal fungi that connect individual plants together.[SUP][10]"[/SUP]
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
part 2 (wouldn't let me edit original to add this)
"The mechanisms of increased absorption are both physical and chemical. Mycorrhizal mycelia are much smaller in diameter than the smallest root, and thus can explore a greater volume of soil, providing a larger surface area for absorption. Also, the cell membrane chemistry of fungi is different from that of plants (including organic acid excretion which aids in ion displacement[SUP][12][/SUP]). Mycorrhizas are especially beneficial for the plant partner in nutrient-poor soils.[SUP][13]
....[/SUP]Fungi have been found to have a protective role for plants rooted in soils with high metal concentrations, such asacidic and contaminated soils. Pine trees inoculated with Pisolithus tinctorius planted in several contaminated sites displayed high tolerance to the prevailing contaminant, survivorship and growth. One study discovered the existence of Suillus luteus strains with varying tolerance of zinc. Another study discovered that zinc-tolerant strains of Suillus bovinus conferred resistance to plants of Pinus sylvestris. This was probably due to binding of the metal to the extramatricial mycelium of the fungus, without affecting the exchange of beneficial substances.[SUP][21]"[/SUP]
"The mechanisms of increased absorption are both physical and chemical. Mycorrhizal mycelia are much smaller in diameter than the smallest root, and thus can explore a greater volume of soil, providing a larger surface area for absorption. Also, the cell membrane chemistry of fungi is different from that of plants (including organic acid excretion which aids in ion displacement[SUP][12][/SUP]). Mycorrhizas are especially beneficial for the plant partner in nutrient-poor soils.[SUP][13]
....[/SUP]Fungi have been found to have a protective role for plants rooted in soils with high metal concentrations, such asacidic and contaminated soils. Pine trees inoculated with Pisolithus tinctorius planted in several contaminated sites displayed high tolerance to the prevailing contaminant, survivorship and growth. One study discovered the existence of Suillus luteus strains with varying tolerance of zinc. Another study discovered that zinc-tolerant strains of Suillus bovinus conferred resistance to plants of Pinus sylvestris. This was probably due to binding of the metal to the extramatricial mycelium of the fungus, without affecting the exchange of beneficial substances.[SUP][21]"[/SUP]
frizzlegooch
Well-Known Member
Thx for the read,