Organic Growing with worms

People were asking what types of worms were ideal to keep optimum soil tilth.

I thought i would follow up on the information that I have found.

I suggested that epigeic worms were ideal for soil tilth, but looking at the benefits of the Endogeic, and Anecic type worms It would be idea to add those types for soil tilth. So to simply add the other types of worms would be to simply dig outside for them. Especially in the cooler climates, for example Epigeic type worms are absent from colorado soils, because of their surface feeding and the cool climate kills them, and lack of organic material . The species you would be adding from digging for worms is going to be the Aneic/Endogeic type. And those are most commonly found outside.. especially if you live in cooler climates like colorado..

David Whiting, The science of gardening, page 81.

Rrog said:

I'm not into Brewers, ACT, etc but that all sounds great!

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Ive been trying to figure out "my style" of growing while weaving through all the different info regarding organics. Not trying to toot his horn too much, but been taking @greasemonkeymann info seriously and aiming my style towards his. I have now heard a few ppl say they dont do AACT, may I ask why you feel this way? May I also ask what/when you normally use throughout a grow? (Such as topdressing, foliar, etc...)


I ask this because im debating on buying a nice, new pump and putting together a vortex.

Kind Sir said:

Ive been trying to figure out "my style" of growing while weaving through all the different info regarding organics. Not trying to toot his horn too much, but been taking @greasemonkeymann info seriously and aiming my style towards his. I have now heard a few ppl say they dont do AACT, may I ask why you feel this way? May I also ask what/when you normally use throughout a grow? (Such as topdressing, foliar, etc...)


I ask this because im debating on buying a nice, new pump and putting together a vortex.

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Knowing Rrog (limited internet interaction anyways), I think what he means is that an AACT isn't necessary if you have your soilweb already up and "running".
I don't do many aacts either, maybe once a grow, and sometimes not even that, but with a compost and fresh EWC in the soil the microbes are already there, the soil is literally crawling with them, so it's not needed.
The most common "tea" that I make is either a coconut water tea, or a aloe/silica tea.
I haven't made a nutrient tea in forever
I do wish I could make a couple sprouted seed teas a little more often, but it's a pain in my ass...
I like to topdress with comfrey chopped up in vermicastings or compost, whichever.
I don't foliar feed, other than a silica and aloe spray.
I DO like to simply mist water until they are "washed" during vege, and I do this 3-4 times during vege.
During the summer I foliar a bunch of things to keep my mites down. But nothing nutritional.

Once a soil is going, the house is put together just the way the plant wants. The soil is staffed with the right microbes, in the right ratios. Nutrients are stored. Things are good. Everyone has a job. Not too many or too few microbes.

Then this whole beauty is flooded by whatever anyone floods it with. Why?

All the types of microbes that need to be there are already in there. The ratios of microbes that are needed are already in there

I think there's an arguement that microbe teas might screw up the system as much as it might help

This is different than seed teas that supply growth hormones and immune system response. Also different from drenches with compost and other top dressed amendments. Those are all bringing in new nutrients to replace spent

Rrog said:

I think there's an arguement that microbe teas might screw up the system as much as it might help

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I think I know why, but I want to hear whats the reasoning behind it.

GrowerGoneWild said:

I think I know why, but I want to hear whats the reasoning behind it.

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My reasoning (opinion) is that the system gets overwhelmed with microbes in vast numbers that are simply not needed.

The normal plant / microbe relationship might be disrupted / on hold while the flood recedes. Nutrient stores may be raided by the flood of new microbes.

Who knows

Rrog said:

My reasoning (opinion) is that the system gets overwhelmed with microbes in vast numbers that are simply not needed.

The normal plant / microbe relationship might be disrupted / on hold while the flood recedes. Nutrient stores may be raided by the flood of new microbes.

Who knows

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Ive observed amoeba in my teas that are actively eating bacteria. (2000X mag) in a bacterial tea I brew I dont know if an overpopulation condition could exist to be a problem.

I have observed a problem where a tea with too much sugar in it causing fungal growth when it was applied to soil. Its the only time I've seen an upset in the system causing a pathogenic condition.

My only thoughts of using teas especially those with manure will add to the salinity of the soil in a bad way.

Some thoughts about it anyways.

Well, it seems that I have good compost in my soil mix to begin with and the normal amendments (atleast adding neem/gypsum next time) but due to it being its first run (I also want to add it to my other plants,) I was thinking an aact would be good. I have an air pump/stone but its only 44.3 GPH, I only need a gallon even but it didnt seem to foam much and didnt want to cause damage somehow.

The bacterial predation is the other described value in what's going on. The bacteria store nutrients and when they're eaten, they release their payload. Gives the soil a nutrient boost. So does a drench of compost, I figure

Kind Sir said:

Ive been trying to figure out "my style" of growing while weaving through all the different info regarding organics. Not trying to toot his horn too much, but been taking @greasemonkeymann info seriously and aiming my style towards his. I have now heard a few ppl say they dont do AACT, may I ask why you feel this way? May I also ask what/when you normally use throughout a grow? (Such as topdressing, foliar, etc...)


I ask this because im debating on buying a nice, new pump and putting together a vortex.

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Couldn't agree more Kind sir. I have used the information that Grease has passed along many times. His knowledge is unreal!! He is one of a few on here that know exactly what they are doing, and I thank them all!!!

Rrog said:

The bacterial predation is the other described value in what's going on. The bacteria store nutrients and when they're eaten, they release their payload. Gives the soil a nutrient boost. So does a drench of compost, I figure

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Interesting thought.. If anything, we know its annuals like bacterial activity.. I'll have to do some side by sides looking at diluted teas vs stuff straight out of the brewer.. And of course worms in the soil.

If anything I still think worms and their products add to to soil tilth, by fighting compaction, and processing the soil or other organic matter. Either use the castings they produce or put a variety of worms into the soil, They seem to be better suited to those that use the no-till method.

Worms for the win!

greasemonkeymann said:

Knowing Rrog (limited internet interaction anyways), I think what he means is that an AACT isn't necessary if you have your soilweb already up and "running".
I don't do many aacts either, maybe once a grow, and sometimes not even that, but with a compost and fresh EWC in the soil the microbes are already there, the soil is literally crawling with them, so it's not needed.

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Good point, the commerical soils I use are usually incomplete from a soil web standpoint. I give them a inoculation of microbes production. I should do a wet mount slide to see if there is a difference between untreated and treated soil. I've observed a difference in growth but the proof is in the pudding so to speak..

If I'm understanding the posts about the use of teas correctly: If you're like myself and kindsir who are on our first run with our soil mixes, teas are good for helping to get the soil web going. Once we have a couple runs with it and have the soil web doing it's thing, teas are not so necessary but more of a preference for each grower. I just brewed and fed the first tea to my plants and cooking soil. It was a cannabis seed sprout Tea so that's mostly for the enzymes. I was planning to do a popcorn tea for them around the first week of flowering. About how many cycles does it take roughly for the web to become pretty stable?

Joe Blows Trees said:

If I'm understanding the posts about the use of teas correctly: If you're like myself and kindsir who are on our first run with our soil mixes, teas are good for helping to get the soil web going. Once we have a couple runs with it and have the soil web doing it's thing, teas are not so necessary but more of a preference for each grower. I just brewed and fed the first tea to my plants and cooking soil. It was a cannabis seed sprout Tea so that's mostly for the enzymes. I was planning to do a popcorn tea for them around the first week of flowering. About how many cycles does it take roughly for the web to become pretty stable?

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i'd say after inoculation it's rather fast.. given a conducive environment i'd imagine it's quick.
maybe a week or two?
hard to say, there is a certain amount of growth involved..
But I can't imagine it being too long at all, certainly less than a full run
BUT I've never observed soil under a microscope so it's all an educated guess

kkt3 said:

Couldn't agree more Kind sir. I have used the information that Grease has passed along many times. His knowledge is unreal!! He is one of a few on here that know exactly what they are doing, and I thank them all!!!

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Wow, man.. thanks for the compliment that's really nice to hear..
That's literally the primary reason i'm on this site, is to share some of the knowledge I've gained from experience, my successes and failures (I've made a few)
I just wish I could go back in time to apply my knowledge to myself decades ago
Three things I wish I would have learned earlier..
One, the value of a good compost/humus.
and
Two, the value of a friggin ex cloner.
and
Three, LEARN HOW TO MAKE LED PANELS! (still in the process)