Organic Soil Mix - Feedback?

12qt bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest
12qt bag of part Happy Frog Organic
1lb organic worm castings
6qts perlite

Mixed it up with a gallon of distilled water and I'm going to let it cook for a few weeks. Any suggestions on what else the mix might need? Does anyone have a good mix for freshly sprouted seeds? I was thinking a mix of worm castings and perlite after I sprouted the seed in water/papertowel.

thanks!

I would add Dolomite & Azomite.

Bone meal blood meal kelp meal alflafa et. Truthfully go the organic section and read there also look up subcool super soil alot of detailed and excellent info on that part of forum

AimAim said:

I would add Dolomite & Azomite.

Click to expand...

I'm going to see about picking up some dolomite and adding about 1TBSP per gallon.

leels,
Never heard of anyone cooking bagged organic soil...it's already cooked.
Far as adding to it, something to enhance drainage would be good. Perlite works fine...I have had success with adding hydroton.

Worm castings might be too hot for seedlings. I'd go 1/4 castings plus 3/4 mild starter mix...then to that add some perlite.
Good luck,
JD

EWC aren't to hot for seedlings, if anything it would be the FF Ocean forest.

plaguedog said:

EWC aren't to hot for seedlings, if anything it would be the FF Ocean forest.

Click to expand...

Thanks Plaguedog,
It's been awhile since I grew organic. I actually wasn't too sure on the strength of castings...but I recall they aren't a well balanced nutrient and are used most optimally as an organic N supplement. But for sure the FFOF is too hot.
JD

JohnDee said:

leels,
Never heard of anyone cooking bagged organic soil...it's already cooked.

Click to expand...

so you don't let your soil mixtures sit before using it?

teels,
Never have...what's the reason for doing so? Never even heard of it...and I'm an old timer.
JD

JohnDee said:

teels,
Never have...what's the reason for doing so? Never even heard of it...and I'm an old timer.
JD

Click to expand...

Allowing microbial flora to grow is the general idea.

leels said:

12qt bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest
12qt bag of part Happy Frog Organic
1lb organic worm castings
6qts perlite

Mixed it up with a gallon of distilled water and I'm going to let it cook for a few weeks. Any suggestions on what else the mix might need? Does anyone have a good mix for freshly sprouted seeds? I was thinking a mix of worm castings and perlite after I sprouted the seed in water/papertowel.

thanks!

Click to expand...

greensand, rock phosphate, humic acid, horticultural grade charcoal. for the seedlings I like MG Organic Choice no added nutes.

teels,
Like I said in my previous post, it has already been "cooked" or composted by the manufacturer. Since you aren't providing it any controlled environment...I'd say you have just as good a chance of growing a harmful anaerobic organism as you do of actually impoving the soil.

When you do an actual compost heap...you throw in some manure, hay, food scraps and whatever other organic waste that's available that composts well. Stir it up. water it down and cover it up. It will then decompose and create a nice organic humus with most bad bugs cooked out of it. It will get up to perhaps between 140-160 degrees. When I did compost piles over the winter...there would be no snow on the pile. That's where the phrase "cooked" comes from.

What you are doing by getting your soil soupy and sitting for awhile...well that's something different and personally I would not do it.
JD

JohnDee said:

Thanks Plaguedog,
It's been awhile since I grew organic. I actually wasn't too sure on the strength of castings...but I recall they aren't a well balanced nutrient and are used most optimally as an organic N supplement. But for sure the FFOF is too hot.
JD

Click to expand...

You're right, they are a nice N supplement. But they also add so much more. Natural form of humic acid, homemade castings are about the best soil conditioner you will ever find.

JohnDee said:

teels,
Like I said in my previous post, it has already been "cooked" or composted by the manufacturer. Since you aren't providing it any controlled environment...I'd say you have just as good a chance of growing a harmful anaerobic organism as you do of actually impoving the soil.

When you do an actual compost heap...you throw in some manure, hay, food scraps and whatever other organic waste that's available that composts well. Stir it up. water it down and cover it up. It will then decompose and create a nice organic humus with most bad bugs cooked out of it. It will get up to perhaps between 140-160 degrees. When I did compost piles over the winter...there would be no snow on the pile. That's where the phrase "cooked" comes from.

What you are doing by getting your soil soupy and sitting for awhile...well that's something different and personally I would not do it.
JD

Click to expand...

So the prevailing wisdom which espouses the use of "cooking/curing/allowing your ingredients to sit" before planting in the mixture is wrong? Pardon my skepticism if I have a hard time believing an open container that is stirred frequently will become an anaerobic microbial culture. My understanding is that you run a bigger risk of nutrient burn if you don't allow a "cooking/sitting" period. At this point I'd say we are of different schools of thought concerning the benefits of allowing a mixture of soils and amendments to sit before using. Ah well.

leels said:

So the prevailing wisdom which espouses the use of "cooking/curing/allowing your ingredients to sit" before planting in the mixture is wrong? Pardon my skepticism if I have a hard time believing an open container that is stirred frequently will become an anaerobic microbial culture. My understanding is that you run a bigger risk of nutrient burn if you don't allow a "cooking/sitting" period. At this point I'd say we are of different schools of thought concerning the benefits of allowing a mixture of soils and amendments to sit before using. Ah well.

Click to expand...

I think you missed the point. Most of these pre-bagged soils have already been "cooked". The problem I always see is people running fox farm ocean forest which I don't think was ever intended to start seeds in.

plaguedog said:

I think you missed the point. Most of these pre-bagged soils have already been "cooked". The problem I always see is people running fox farm ocean forest which I don't think was ever intended to start seeds in.

Click to expand...

No, I don't think I did. Are you telling me that my mixture FF Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, perlite and worm castings are "prebagged/cooked"? I should skip allowing these mixed ingredients time to settle, skip allowing the microbial flora in the soil time to grow? I may be new to growing bud, but my previous experiences with gardening tell me that when I add soil amendments they need time to "marry/cook/sit" before being used. Common sense also tells me soil which is stirred frequently and has access to plenty of oxygen isn't likely to start breeding anaerobic microbes. I'm not talking about composting, I'm not talking about cooking a prebagged mix of FF Ocean forest, and I'm not running straight FF Ocean Forest for seeds to start in.

Why wouldn't I allow two different soils, perlite and worm castings time to marry and grow positive microbes for the soil? JohnDee is trying to argue that because FF and HF are premixed they are precooked and don't require cooking- fine. I'm referring to letting the aforementioned soils and amendments time to reach some sort of homeostatic balance.

Here is my opinion. I do think it is a good idea to "cook" your soil if you are adding rich amendments like bone meal, blood meal, bat guano, dolomite lime etc. I do not think that perlite and worm castings will require cooking to avoid burning your plants, and I don't think much benefit would be gained by doing so.

If you are going to take the advice of some of the previous posters and add bone meal, blood meal, dolomite etc then yes cook it. If not then don't worry about it.

Cascadian said:

Here is my opinion. I do think it is a good idea to "cook" your soil if you are adding rich amendments like bone meal, blood meal, bat guano, dolomite lime etc. I do not think that perlite and worm castings will require cooking to avoid burning your plants, and I don't think much benefit would be gained by doing so.

If you are going to take the advice of some of the previous posters and add bone meal, blood meal, dolomite etc then yes cook it. If not then don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

Going to add some dolomite and check soil pH, see where things stand.

leels wrote: Are you telling me that my mixture FF Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, perlite and worm castings are "prebagged/cooked"?

Click to expand...

I would confidently say that all those organic products (perlite being inorganic, so not included) are ready-to-use right out of the bag. You know Leels, I honestly don't care what you do. I expressed what I believe to be true. Do what you like.
JD

JohnDee said:

I would confidently say that all those organic products (perlite being inorganic, so not included) are ready-to-use right out of the bag. You know Leels, I honestly don't care what you do. I expressed what I believe to be true. Do what you like.
JD

Click to expand...

Okay, move along then. I can honestly say I took your opinion into consideration, I disagree. You can look at any of a number of forum threads and articles (Subcool, etc.) that tell you to cook a mixture. Using soil with amendments immediately without going through the process of infrequent stirring and letting it marry is a recipe for inconsistent soil. My previous gardening experience tells me you are wrong.

Good to see you finally got my name right.