Organic VS. Non-Organic

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Well these guys should provide a lot haha. Ill try it on my winter grow and see how it works out :)

surprised those two sharks are getting along.
The gourami is a cool fish, I had like 15 of those in my planted tank.
Maybe check out some freshwater plants, those are really cool, especially the anubias, that's a super cool plant.
valisnerias are good fast growers too.
thers another that is all crinkled and procreats via a rhizome, can't remember the name though... that's a cool one too
I had a planted tank for yrs, was really a cool hobby, but i'm a plant freak... I have hundreds of plants, the least being my cannabis
 

CBDFarm

Well-Known Member
ahh it's the java fern!
just remembered. There is like a bunch of subspecies too
That's a super easy plant to grow, and it doesn't have typical roots, just a rhizome
I want to do a reef/coral tank, but that looks really complicated for a noob like me lol
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I want to do a reef/coral tank, but that looks really complicated for a noob like me lol
it IS complicated.... I've done it....
lots and lots of money... and if the shit has a problem? you lose fish, and reef critters that are pricey!
I couldn't where I was at... tried... but I had too many power outages... and that is chatastrophic for a reef tank
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
While I envy and marvel at the organic, soil growers, I can get by so seemingly much more simply with peat and very little chemicals that I am hard-pressed to change. Instead I hope to dial everything else in before moving to soil and organics. Time is of the essence also as my days are packed. Organics has to take more time. Growing is not the only hobby. I do not fret PH either, while I did just buy a pen. It kind of validated that I do not have to "fret PH". :). I am also growing more potent, smoother, and tastier stuff than 90% of the stuff I have smoked over the last 40 years.

Even a caveman...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/about-a-pound-simple-and-cheap.880860/
 

pseudobotanist

Well-Known Member
My biggest issue is the general misconception of some organic growers when they claim that they don't want chemicals in their product. The taste is greatly attributed to the dry and cure.

Wether an organic grower or a synthetic one, both contain chemicals!! There's no way around it since your entire world is made of chemicals. "This chemicals are bad for you" claim shows the misunderstanding of their posters.

With that said I use synthetics. And enjoy figuring out that sweet spot for the given strain I'm growing
 

Nullis

Moderator
My biggest issue is the general misconception of some organic growers when they claim that they don't want chemicals in their product. The taste is greatly attributed to the dry and cure.

Whether an organic grower or a synthetic one, both contain chemicals!! There's no way around it since your entire world is made of chemicals. "This chemicals are bad for you" claim shows the misunderstanding of their posters.

With that said I use synthetics. And enjoy figuring out that sweet spot for the given strain I'm growing
Chemicals also affect reactions and phenomenon such as plant nutrient\mineral uptake. Synthetic fertilizers, especially of the hydroponic variety contain synthetic chelating agents. Most commonly EDTA or DTPA. These types of substances increase the availability of certain plant nutrients. They a high affinity for divalent cations, which can be released and absorbed by plants. EDTA itself is not well absorbed. So then the EDTA molecule goes looking for another cation to scavenge; e.g. calcium, magnesium or even lead and other heavy metals. The concentration of these within plant tissues at harvest very well could affect taste/aroma.

I'll tell you a secret though; I barely cure before smoking. Sure some of it ends up sitting around in jars for a time anyways but to me this really only seems to preserve the smell and quality. I just slow dry it and jar it, opening it until I ensure the moisture content is right. This typically doesn't take longer than 2-3 days. Then I deem it consumable.
 

pseudobotanist

Well-Known Member
A chemical is a chemical regardless if it is naturally sourced or synthetic. A chemical itself isn't dangerous, it is the dosage. Your body Contains formaldehyde, arsenic, Mercury, aluminum etc. although the amounts are at a low enough dosage that it isn't toxic.

My point being that some organic growers I've come across make these claims about chemicals being bad all because they want to appeal to this nature fallacy.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
A chemical is a chemical regardless if it is naturally sourced or synthetic. A chemical itself isn't dangerous, it is the dosage. Your body Contains formaldehyde, arsenic, Mercury, aluminum etc. although the amounts are at a low enough dosage that it isn't toxic.

My point being that some organic growers I've come across make these claims about chemicals being bad all because they want to appeal to this nature fallacy.
feel good bro science :roll:
 

Nullis

Moderator
A chemical is a chemical regardless if it is naturally sourced or synthetic. A chemical itself isn't dangerous, it is the dosage. Your body Contains formaldehyde, arsenic, Mercury, aluminum etc. although the amounts are at a low enough dosage that it isn't toxic.

My point being that some organic growers I've come across make these claims about chemicals being bad all because they want to appeal to this nature fallacy.
Chemicals also affect reactions and phenomenon such as plant nutrient\mineral uptake. Synthetic fertilizers, especially of the hydroponic variety contain synthetic chelating agents. Most commonly EDTA or DTPA. These types of substances increase the availability of certain plant nutrients. They a high affinity for divalent cations, which can be released and absorbed by plants. EDTA itself is not well absorbed. So then the EDTA molecule goes looking for another cation to scavenge; e.g. calcium, magnesium or even lead and other heavy metals. The concentration of these within plant tissues at harvest very well could affect taste/aroma.
EDTA doesn't occur naturally whatsoever. If you knew much about chemistry you'd realize that these synthetic chelates increase the uptake of heavy metals and minerals which can make Cannabis harsh, potentially affecting it's flavor and aroma. Not to mention that heavy metals are toxic to humans, and plants themselves. When an EDTA molecule goes scavenging for mineral cations it doesn't much care where they come from, and thus can rip them right out of a cell membrane/plant tissues. Hence potentially not great for the plant either.

BTW a more strict definition of a "chemical" is a refined or prepared substance. Some organic growers simply can't explain why such chemicals are 'bad', to what/whom and to what extent. EDTA is not a great chemical to have persisting in our environment because it affects [increases] the bioavailability of heavy metals in plants and other organisms. These synthetic chelates are employed to replace the role of natural chelating agents (such as humic, fulvic, amino acids) and the role of symbiotic microorganisms which benefit plants in nature. Then there are synthetic plant growth hormones and the potential or as yet unknown consequences of their consumption by people and plants; as well as their persistence in and affect on other organisms within the biosphere.

Then you have chemical (refined sources) of nitrates which can accumulate in soil and plants. These artificial sources of nitrate replace the roles of nitrogen-fixing and nitrifying bacteria. Nitrate is an anion and as such it is prone to leaching and contaminating ground water. N-fixing and nitrifying bacteria, on the other hand, are virtually incapable of producing "too much" nitrate for plants. However, when we apply chemical (refined) nitrates (as well as phosphates and ammonium) to soil they can accumulate in plants as well as contaminate waterways leading to increased algae growth.
So what happens when plants with accumulated nitrates are consumed by animals? Here's what the Colorado agricultural extension service has to say about it:
Nitrates consumed by ruminants are normally reduced to ammonia, absorbed and excreted. Nitrite, an intermediate product is the culprit in nitrate poisoning. As some of the nitrate is absorbed into the blood it converts the blood hemoglobin to methemoglobin. The conversion of hemoglobin to methemoglobin reduces the oxygen carrying ability of the animal. The oxygen carrying capacity of the blood is severely reduced. Younger ruminants are more susceptible than older animals.
Interesting isn't it? If you honestly want to understand any of this, you have to realize it isn't even about "chemicals being chemicals" and that it matters more than you could know where exactly such chemicals come from. Natures chemists tend to know a thing or two about balance and how to keep it. To realize this you have to have some understanding of not only the fundamentals of chemistry, but biology and ecology as well. Most people aren't quite that interested in actually gaining such an understanding. I would kindly suggest such people quit thinking that they have the slightest clue what they are talking about.
 

pseudobotanist

Well-Known Member
Your paragraph reinforces my statement that a chemical itself isn't dangerous, it is the amount of that chemical that makes it toxic.

While I appreciate your contribution my goal isn't to argue with you and I'll kindly ignore your kind suggestion.

I simply was saying my issue with some organic growers is that they claim superiority because of the "naturalness" of their grow. The naturalness of a chemical doesn't make it safer than a synthetic one.
 

Nullis

Moderator
Your response reinforces that you're an imbecile. See, here in the real world you virtually never have a "chemical itself". The world and plants and soil is made up of all kinds of substances and stuff; all these various reactions are taking place and there's these things called cycles. Nitrogen cycle, carbon cycle, sulfur cycle, humus cycle. Then there are instances in which the technically organic compounds, such as organic nitrogen, are less toxic then inorganic forms of arsenic.

Synthetic pesticides especially are a concern, because with most of these we don't even know exactly how they affect humans or at what dose. And you understand that I'm telling you that ingredients in synthetic fertilizers increase the uptake of the more toxic chemical elements in soil, right? All contingent truisms aside the "naturalness" of our agricultural practices as a planet does sort of matter, and could very well matter as far as taste/smell and smoke for Cannabis goes.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
No need for you to resort to an ad hominem attack.
Thats organic growers for you, think they are saving the planet one bud at a time, still use synthetic chemistry everytime they post here or drive their polluting car to work whilst preaching about the planet.

Were growing weed not chaining ourselves to oilrigs, if organics has some benifit to weed then great but touting that save the planet stuff just makes me want to ask if their computer is organic or the car they use to go to work or their clothes etc etc.

If they truly were organic they wouldnt be here because the internet dosent work on organic principles.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Your response reinforces that you're an imbecile. See, here in the real world you virtually never have a "chemical itself". The world and plants and soil is made up of all kinds of substances and stuff; all these various reactions are taking place and there's these things called cycles. Nitrogen cycle, carbon cycle, sulfur cycle, humus cycle. Then there are instances in which the technically organic compounds, such as organic nitrogen, are less toxic then inorganic forms of arsenic.

Synthetic pesticides especially are a concern, because with most of these we don't even know exactly how they affect humans or at what dose. And you understand that I'm telling you that ingredients in synthetic fertilizers increase the uptake of the more toxic chemical elements in soil, right? All contingent truisms aside the "naturalness" of our agricultural practices as a planet does sort of matter, and could very well matter as far as taste/smell and smoke for Cannabis goes.
The planet matters?

What the one youve already destroyed, three quaters of all wildlife wiped out, destruction of all flora and fauna habitats, acidification of the seas and toxification of the atmosphere

Get bent, like some biobizz is our saviour, real problem is you and overpopulation not the minor debate between organic synthetic.

Get your leg of the bandwagon and stop humping it so hard!
 

Nullis

Moderator
Lol. Biobizz.

Look I don't give a fuck if you assholes don't get it, really. I'm a chem/bio student and I understand that most people are idiots when it comes to that stuff. If you have to resort to saying bullshit like:
If they truly were organic they wouldnt be here because the internet dosent work on organic principles.
God help you. It's way above your ignorant heads and you're not interested in educating yourself so pull out a straw man.

As for pseudobotanist and my ad hominen attack, you obviously weren't interested in any reasonable discourse where actual science/chemistry or facts are concerned in regards to organics considering you couldn't even respond to any of that. If you were only interested in retorting contingent truisms you could have found a mirror, or a wall.
 
Last edited:

Nullis

Moderator
The planet matters?

What the one youve already destroyed, three quaters of all wildlife wiped out, destruction of all flora and fauna habitats, acidification of the seas and toxification of the atmosphere
We better keep it up then, right?
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
you guys are nuts seriously this can all come down to sustainability and feeding the world you think organics is saving the planet one must really think again ?? Its Not although growing organic is falling under the natural cycle of decomposition of all living things on earth life , death decompose and back to life ,, this is a small process that happens on our lovely planet
were not going to save to world by going organic organics does not mean better quality nor does it mean better yields actually the opposite occurs
The world is living and changing we seeing it more as through the internet trending news is all around us all the time
With the earth changing so does climate its been proven in the past global warming an cooling trends and such the migration of humans from Africa to all over the world we got to snap out of this organic is the only way of growing and saving the world sorry it will never happen NEVER with the amount of farmlands being changed into urban dwellings now and over population of people how can anyone think organic farming will save us all
first off organics tend to yield less in farm applications there fore or organic farming to compete we would need to chop more forests down to make adiquite farm land for organics to compete
Here Black in white your going to need double the land organic then it would take to yield conventional thems are facts
 
Top