Organics and PH

pphaze

pphaze

Well-Known Member
hey guys so I've been having ph issues in my plants there is clearly a nutrient lockout leaves are yellowing/spotting. And the plants just don't seem to be growing

I've read a lot on ph not mattering wth Organics but I'm seeing it kind of does.

My environmental specs are optimal im in veg and I have 77 degrees f and 48 percent humidity watering with straight RO water

Currently PH is at 7.2-7.4

And I would like to get down to 6.3 - 6.5

Since my soil is already mixed up I am wondering what I could add to lower it a few levels. I've looked into a couple of things and will probably just add soil acidifer with a little line and let it cook for a few weeks and hope the next batch of teens comes out better. What are your thoughts on soil PH and Organics? Thanks ahead of time
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
pphaze said:
hey guys so I've been having ph issues in my plants there is clearly a nutrient lockout leaves are yellowing/spotting. And the plants just don't seem to be growing

I've read a lot on ph not mattering wth Organics but I'm seeing it kind of does.

My environmental specs are optimal im in veg and I have 77 degrees f and 48 percent humidity watering with straight RO water

Currently PH is at 7.2-7.4

And I would like to get down to 6.3 - 6.5

Since my soil is already mixed up I am wondering what I could add to lower it a few levels. I've looked into a couple of things and will probably just add soil acidifer with a little line and let it cook for a few weeks and hope the next batch of teens comes out better. What are your thoughts on soil PH and Organics? Thanks ahead of time
Click to expand...
I've never pH'd my soil, but AgSil or a comparable potassium silicate acts as a pH down. Not sure at what rate you'd have to apply to get the soil there.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
pphaze said:
hey guys so I've been having ph issues in my plants there is clearly a nutrient lockout leaves are yellowing/spotting. And the plants just don't seem to be growing

I've read a lot on ph not mattering wth Organics but I'm seeing it kind of does.

My environmental specs are optimal im in veg and I have 77 degrees f and 48 percent humidity watering with straight RO water

Currently PH is at 7.2-7.4

And I would like to get down to 6.3 - 6.5

Since my soil is already mixed up I am wondering what I could add to lower it a few levels. I've looked into a couple of things and will probably just add soil acidifer with a little line and let it cook for a few weeks and hope the next batch of teens comes out better. What are your thoughts on soil PH and Organics? Thanks ahead of time
Click to expand...
that's well within the normal range for organics.

also RO water typically needs micro supplements..

SPLFreak808 said:
Whats in the mix? Are you using bottles too?
Click to expand...
I second this question.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
pphaze said:
I've read a lot on ph not mattering wth Organics but I'm seeing it kind of does.
Click to expand...
Well, yes an no...
in a reasonably assembled soil mix the PH doesn't play as much of a role in organics because the presense of organic material, microbial life, root exudates, etc, are what controls the Ph.
BUT that's all predicated on the soil mix being the correct one.
meaning if you don't lime your soil, use a dominant peat mix, feed organically with bottled nutes, etc,
then yea, you may have acidity issues, but almost NEVER an alkaline issue, not unless you are messing with biochar the incorrect way or are using wood ashes..
either way though, 7.2 isn't an issue.
if I were to guess you may have a micro nutrient def, or perhaps the soil isn't draining correctly, insufficient drainage can lead to ph issues... BUT overwatering will make the soil acidic, not alkaline.
soooo...
I would bet you have issues apart from the PH.
but like always, without pics, and not being there to check things personally its all hard to tell for sure.
 
pphaze

pphaze

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
Well, yes an no...
in a reasonably assembled soil mix the PH doesn't play as much of a role in organics because the presense of organic material, microbial life, root exudates, etc, are what controls the Ph.
BUT that's all predicated on the soil mix being the correct one.
meaning if you don't lime your soil, use a dominant peat mix, feed organically with bottled nutes, etc,
then yea, you may have acidity issues, but almost NEVER an alkaline issue, not unless you are messing with biochar the incorrect way or are using wood ashes..
either way though, 7.2 isn't an issue.
if I were to guess you may have a micro nutrient def, or perhaps the soil isn't draining correctly, insufficient drainage can lead to ph issues... BUT overwatering will make the soil acidic, not alkaline.
soooo...
I would bet you have issues apart from the PH.
but like always, without pics, and not being there to check things personally its all hard to tell for sure.
Click to expand...
I am using a local product focusing on microbial life
Mixed with EWC, high P bat guano, fungal dominated compost, kelp meal, oyster shell , blood meal and feather meal.

I know for sure it had all it needs in the soil but somethings not clicking

After reading your post I am thinking it may be a drainage issue I haven't added any additional aeration after mixing this up.

So the consistency is a little muddy.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Air is as important to the roots as water. Sounds like your roots are choking/drowning. Pull up your plant & then add a lot of perlite and possibly coco to lighten it up. In my exp any bottled "products" you add are detrimental to sensitive organic soil food webs. Just give them what they need in the mix and water them as normal; "organic" nutes still force feed. Allow the plant to decide what it wants & it'll do the rest.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
The most important part of that "in organics, pH doesn't matter" is almost ALWAYS missing. That is the qualifier, "well buffered". Just like GMM mentioned, if the soil isn't limed, or not in the proper pH range from the get go, problems will usually follow. I make everything from scratch and lime is the second ingredient added right after the peat moss. With that done, there is very little, if any, thought given to pH for that grow cycle.

BTW, potassium silicate is alkaline and often used as a sorta organic pH UP. It will not lower pH, but just the opposite.

Garden sulfur is used to lower pH and I have zero experience with it, a too high pH is something I've never had to deal with, because just about everything I use tends to the acidic.

Richard Drysift (shark boy:wink:), is way more than correct and probably pinpointed your problem. Poor aeration/drainage is a root cause of SO many problems and usually not even considered, mostly from a lack of experience with how a well aerated/draining mix should perform. Personally, my aeration makes up ~40% of my mix and his suggestion of adding more perlite is spot on. No experience with coco and can't comment on it. Aside from aquatic plants, mostly nothing grows well in mud, even well amended mud.

I second or third the suggestion that you deal with "little muddy" situation first, before any other 'fixes'.

HTH

Wet
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
The most important part of that "in organics, pH doesn't matter" is almost ALWAYS missing. That is the qualifier, "well buffered". Just like GMM mentioned, if the soil isn't limed, or not in the proper pH range from the get go, problems will usually follow. I make everything from scratch and lime is the second ingredient added right after the peat moss. With that done, there is very little, if any, thought given to pH for that grow cycle.

BTW, potassium silicate is alkaline and often used as a sorta organic pH UP. It will not lower pH, but just the opposite.

Garden sulfur is used to lower pH and I have zero experience with it, a too high pH is something I've never had to deal with, because just about everything I use tends to the acidic.

Richard Drysift (shark boy:wink:), is way more than correct and probably pinpointed your problem. Poor aeration/drainage is a root cause of SO many problems and usually not even considered, mostly from a lack of experience with how a well aerated/draining mix should perform. Personally, my aeration makes up ~40% of my mix and his suggestion of adding more perlite is spot on. No experience with coco and can't comment on it. Aside from aquatic plants, mostly nothing grows well in mud, even well amended mud.

I second or third the suggestion that you deal with "little muddy" situation first, before any other 'fixes'.

HTH

Wet
Click to expand...
Apologies, you are correct. If it's the sulfur that acts as a good pH down, use a bit of neem meal.
 
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