Organics ARE chemicals

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
DownOnWax said:
You are quoting someone who has opinion based articles with ZERO references or proof.

Does not really help.
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References & Further Reading

Armstrong, Larry. "Trader Joe's: The Trendy American Cousin." Business Week. McGraw-Hill Companies, 26 Apr. 2004. Web. 4 Nov. 2009. <http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_17/b3880016.htm>
Avery, Dennis T., Avery Alex. "Tainted Spinach Raises Big Questions of Manure on Food Crops." Center for Global Food Issues. Center for Global Food Issues, 27 Sep. 2006. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.cgfi.org/2006/09/27/tainted-spinach-raises-big-questions-of-manure-on-food-crops/>
FDA. "FDA Statement on Foodborne E. coli 0157:H7 Outbreak in Spinach -- 9/20/06 Update." US Food and Drug Administration. US Federal Government, 20 Sep. 2006. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108740.htm>
Guthman, Julie. Agrarian Dreams: The Paradox of Organic Farming. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2004. 1-237.
Halberg, N., Kristensen, I. Sillebak. "Expected Crop Yield Loss When Converting to Organic Dairy Farming in Denmark." Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. 1 Jan. 1997, Volume 14, Number 1: 25-41.
Kava, Ruth. "Is Organic Produce Better?" American Council on Science and Health. American Council on Science and Health, 12 Mar. 2002. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.228/news_detail.asp>
TJ. "Trader Joe's Jobs." Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's, 1 Jan. 2009. Web. 4 Nov. 2009. <http://www.traderjoes.com/jobs>
USDA. "National List of Allowed and Prohibited Substances." United States Department of Agricutlure: Agricultural Marketing Service. US Federal Government, 25 Sep. 2008. Web. 22 Oct. 2009. <http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fetchTemplateData.do?template=TemplateN&page=NOPNationalList>
Zorb, C., Langenkamper, G., Betsche, T., Neihaus, K., Barsch, A. "Metabolite Profiling of Wheat Grains." Journal of Agricutlural and Food Chemistry. 1 Jul. 2006, Volume 54, Number 21: 8301-8306.
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
What about the use of toxic pesticides that leave residues on the fruit we eat? Organic doesn't only refer to fertilizers...
 
Unnk

Unnk

Well-Known Member
yep it isnt salt its a source of magnesium though very good source of calmag
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
References & Further Reading

Armstrong, Larry. "Trader Joe's: The Trendy American Cousin." Business Week. McGraw-Hill Companies, 26 Apr. 2004. Web. 4 Nov. 2009. <http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_17/b3880016.htm>
Avery, Dennis T., Avery Alex. "Tainted Spinach Raises Big Questions of Manure on Food Crops." Center for Global Food Issues. Center for Global Food Issues, 27 Sep. 2006. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.cgfi.org/2006/09/27/tainted-spinach-raises-big-questions-of-manure-on-food-crops/>
FDA. "FDA Statement on Foodborne E. coli 0157:H7 Outbreak in Spinach -- 9/20/06 Update." US Food and Drug Administration. US Federal Government, 20 Sep. 2006. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108740.htm>
Guthman, Julie. Agrarian Dreams: The Paradox of Organic Farming. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2004. 1-237.
Halberg, N., Kristensen, I. Sillebak. "Expected Crop Yield Loss When Converting to Organic Dairy Farming in Denmark." Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. 1 Jan. 1997, Volume 14, Number 1: 25-41.
Kava, Ruth. "Is Organic Produce Better?" American Council on Science and Health. American Council on Science and Health, 12 Mar. 2002. Web. 9 Nov. 2009. <http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.228/news_detail.asp>
TJ. "Trader Joe's Jobs." Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's, 1 Jan. 2009. Web. 4 Nov. 2009. <http://www.traderjoes.com/jobs>
USDA. "National List of Allowed and Prohibited Substances." United States Department of Agricutlure: Agricultural Marketing Service. US Federal Government, 25 Sep. 2008. Web. 22 Oct. 2009. <http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fetchTemplateData.do?template=TemplateN&page=NOPNationalList>
Zorb, C., Langenkamper, G., Betsche, T., Neihaus, K., Barsch, A. "Metabolite Profiling of Wheat Grains." Journal of Agricutlural and Food Chemistry. 1 Jul. 2006, Volume 54, Number 21: 8301-8306.
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You gotta link to that article?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Jerry Garcia said:
What about the use of toxic pesticides that leave residues on the fruit we eat? Organic doesn't only refer to fertilizers...
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The article also looks at this issue:
Some supporters of organic growing claim that the danger of non-organic food lies in the residues of chemical pesticides. Since the organic pesticides and fungicides are less efficient than their modern synthetic counterparts, up to seven times as much of it must be used. Organic pesticides include rotenone, which has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's Disease and is a natural poison used in hunting by some native tribes; pyrethrum, which is carcinogenic; sabadilla, which is highly toxic to honeybees; and fermented urine, which I don't want on my food whether it causes any diseases or not. Supporters of organics claim that the much larger amounts of chemicals they use is OK because those chemicals are all-natural. But just because something is natural doesn't mean that it's safe or healthy &#8212; consider the examples of hemlock, toadstools, box jellyfish neurotoxin, asbestos &#8212; not to mention a nearly infinite number of toxic bacteria and viruses. According to the Center for Global Food Issues, organic foods make up about 1% of all the food sold in the United States, but it accounts for 8% of E. coli cases.
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Obviously none of these things are an issue when growing indoor cannabis, but since they were brought up we might as well get the facts. I didn't intend for this thread to be about the perils of organics; that is none of my concern. I simply want to inform potential patients that they need not fear synthetically grown cannabis, or pay extra for it's organic counterpart. A point which none of you seem interested in. If they want to pay extra for the taste that is thier business, but it shouldn't be done out of fear.

DownOnWax said:
You gotta link to that article?
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http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
trichlone fiend said:



Synthetic is synthetic, organic is organic. Synthetic fertilizers will not give the same taste as organically grown bud....that's my opinion.


Read up :
http://www.suite101.com/blog/bobcajun/organic_vs_synthetic_fertilizers
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=131
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I agree

Ever tasted a tomato grown hydroponically with synthetic ferts and then compared it to an organic tomato grown in soil?

No Comparison! The Organic tomato grown in dirt wins everytime, hands down!
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg-

That article actually gets into some of the points of Big Organic vs. Small Organic vs. Non Organic.

Really interesting actually and if you would like to know more then you should read the book "The Omnivore's Dilema". Awesome book which talks about the small/ large organic companies, a lot about Corn, Monsanto, etc.

Good book, you should check it out.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Unnk said:
yep it isnt salt its a source of magnesium though very good source of calmag
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OMG!!!! There is no Calcium in Epsom Salt! MgSO4 is Magnesium Sulphate. The molecule consists of 1 Magnesium atom, 1 Sulfur and 4 Oxygen atoms. School isn't just for chumps.:bigjoint:

It's a great source of Magnesium and Sulfur, not Calcium.
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Epsom salt= Magnesium Sulfate or MgSO4

Salt= NaCl aka Sodium Chloride

Magnesium and Sulfur

Where exactly does the sodium come in?

Look at your periodic table of elements Epsom Salt is NOT SALT.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Humus Joe said:
To the op.
good shit keeping clean and on topic, how refreshing.
and prividing linked info too.

I can also copy paste s plethora of info too but even easier if ppl go to there local library and check on how the earth regulates/grows.
Without intended insult, I noticed ur info source was from skeptoid, imo hardly credible.

Im also unbiased, I grow/grown hydro, no biggy. I just dont have the motivation to go tit for tat over the net.
I can see that ur a guy that processes info easily so I urge u to look into the soil foodweb, and just how the earth grows, and wot benefut man gains from trying to work in with the natural processes, it works oit cheaper by farrrr too bcos its simply waste matieials that feed the plants.

Im not arguing against hydro mj, I smoke it too.
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I take your points as they were intended, without insult.

Skeptiod is a peer reviewed, critical thinking podcast which has strict rules when judging evidence. The author often states not to take his word for anything, and provides links for you to decide on your own.

I am in fact very interested in the sympony of microlife that benefit a plant. My DWC suddenly developed a slime issue and after spending too much money on sterlizing products and having none of them work, I found that adding bennies was like a magic bullet. They keep my roots white and stimulated, keep the gunky buildup away, displace harmful microbes, and cost pennies to breed. I like the idea of fighting nature with nature.

What I don't like is sick people being taken advantage of as a result of misinformation and fear, and that was my original motivation for this thread.
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
I take your points as they were intended, without insult.

Skeptiod is a peer reviewed, critical thinking podcast which has strict rules when judging evidence. The author often states not to take his word for anything, and provides links for you to decide on your own.

I am in fact very interested in the sympony of microlife that benefit a plant. My DWC suddenly developed a slime issue and after spending too much money on sterlizing products and having none of them work, I found that adding bennies was like a magic bullet. They keep my roots white and stimulated, keep the gunky buildup away, displace harmful microbes, and cost pennies to breed. I like the idea of fighting nature with nature.

What I don't like is sick people being taken advantage of as a result of misinformation and fear, and that was my original motivation for this thread.
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A very knowledgeable organic grower friend in the San Francisco Bay area tells me 'organic' is now the buzzword for CA medical marijuana patients who purchase their medicine from dispensaries. His experienced observation and testing of products sold in those dispensaries was related to me as being no different than than believing a carnival pitch artist. Some is, some isn't and in most cases the buyers depend on marketing as their oracles, with few considerations beyond what they're told. The snake oil sales people are always out in force in unregulated markets.
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Snake Oil sales people is basically the WORST thing you could have said bro!

Organics is Nature.

Using what the earth provides and concentrating it into a readily availabe nutrient for growing.

The "Snake Oil" is the synthetics.
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
And Organics may have become a "Buzz word" as of late simply because people have become soooo distant to what we used to do as far as gardening.

And I am not talking only about marijuana. After the 2nd World War, the United States government had a HUGE surplus of Amonium Nitrate which they used to make bombs and converted it into Fertilizer for America's farmland. I will agree that Nitrogen is Nitrogen but in order to make it plant and water soluable they added high ammounts of salts (Na) in order for plants to be able to metabolize it.

It is true that "Organics" has become a BS term used to promote healthy living and in a sense you could make a "Snake Oil" argument about it but.............

Organics ARE the proper way of doing things because it is COMPLETELY recycleable. Try using the same soil or hydroponic water with synthetic nutes over and over and eventually see what results you get from it!

I can tell you that you will end up having to use More and More of those synthetic fertilizers to get the same results.

Hell, most people use the soil or water once and then discard it (and for that matter think about where you discard it).

Try recycling it and then get back to me and tell us about the results.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
DownOnWax said:
Epsom salt= Magnesium Sulfate or MgSO4

Salt= NaCl aka Sodium Chloride

Magnesium and Sulfur

Where exactly does the sodium come in?

Look at your periodic table of elements Epsom Salt is NOT SALT.
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OMG, enough with damn semantics. Salt can refer to table salt, the common usage. But in science salt has a much broader definition, than just table salt. Really people?

The TRUTH is that organics tastes better, smokes better, is more environmentally sound, and safer for the gardener.

Let's do a test: you pour your synthetic nutes on your skin and i'll pour my vegan organic nutes on my skin, and we will see who gets burnt first.
Then, after the hospital cleans up your arm, we can go big and do the drink test. You drink your chemy nutes and I'll drink my food grade plant based organic nutes, and we'll see who gets sick first.
 
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