OSLON SSL from experience ...

Well ,I guess by now I've gained some experience ,considering growing mj with Osram's famous Oslons...

Pretty good leds ..
And big pain in the @$$ to reflow them ...
( Tiny pads ) ...

Their size allows them to be soldered in really dense 'cluster' ensuring better 'blended'
and more uniform light ....

Durable hard silicone lens and ceramic case ( Aluminium Nitride ).

The 80° emission angle is something I regret ....
Next time I'll definately use the 150° emission angle lens ,for sure ...

( Mark this point of mine : In small scale indoor cultivation sites the main interest is the
maximum surface of foliage canopy illuminated ,not the height of the grown plants .
In more simple words : Indoors ,one should harvest mj as if it was corn or sugar cane ...
The ' top parts ' are of main interest ...( Thus LST / SOG/SCROG work great with leds,especially..)
Outdoors (where the inverse squre law ,has no meaning regarding sunlight power and plant parts illuminated) one can
harvest mj as if it was a tomato bush ....All flowers along main stem/side branches ...
Almost from bottom to tops .... )


So ...Wide angles ....
I leave 'beams' of led light for the Greenhouses and Clubs /Concerts/Flashlights/etc ...

I have used 4 types of them ...

Each left me with a different impression ....

LCW_CQ7P.CC ( JUKQ 5U8X )

( There's also a more powerful version : LCW_CR7P.CC )

2700°K , 95 CRI .



A really warm white led ...

But ...Not efficient at all ..
( Those deep red / green phosphor ,'suck lots of juice ' )
And lots of NIR ....

I've 48 of them in a total of 108 leds ...

Well ...Mixed emotions here ...
While they do add mass to flowers ( really dense buds ,like the ones grown outdoors )..
And aid 'maturing / finishing ' of plants ...

Having them while vegging ?
It sucks big time ....
Spindly stems,pronounced internodal elongation,small surface of leaf (reduced lamina ) ,not dense foliage ...

Still the buds ,are great ...

Nowdays ?
I would use way less pieces of these leds ..
8 to 12 max / ( for the same 108 leds fixture )

Lots of NIR ..


( For one more time ,Guod was right to have warn me ,about it ..)

I leave 'beams' of led light for the Greenhouses and Clubs /Concerts/Flashlights/etc ...

I have used 4 types of them ...

Each left me with a different impression ....

Click to expand...

interesting, could you describe your impressions?

I'm with you on the wider angle now. While initially impressed with reflectors, I removed them recently. Soon as I did that the space got much brighter and evenly lit. The only time I see narrow beams of light being effective is in larger spaces where you can get lots of height above plants. And even then, we all know how fast the light can drop off at distance. For smaller spaces, maybe even large, I think a reflector around light...ala hid hood... would be the most effective way to capture and direct the light.

And the information on NIR is also very important. Lots of talk as of late on high cri warm white. While on paper very impressive it's easy to not notice the amount of NIR included. Between your experience and my newly acquired, it should be avoided in excess.

Should help lots of future DIY builders. While this information has been out in one way or another, it was never so clear.

LCW.CR7P.EC (KTLP 5R8T )

3000 °K, 80-82 CRI




What I can say for that Warm White ?

Powerful ..

With a superb spectra ..
Most powerful Peak at ~ 600nm
~70% rel power at ~640 nm
~50% rel power at ~660 nm

Superb led ...

( Although flowers do take longer to mature / finish ,than the 2700 K , 95 CRI )

Photometrically it is rated at 97-121 lm @350 mA KTLP
& 104.2-130 lm @350 mA for the KULQ bins..


I should 've used this as a " base " illumination ...
I've seen good things happening underneath this type of leds ..
Both while vegging and flowering ....

Great led for " Solo " plant illumination ...
Power & light Quality ,together in a single package ....


( R : Street Light ..Once more from the 'streets' into the 'tent' ...
History repeats itself ....)

LCW.CQ7P.CC ( KQKS 5L7N )

4000 °K ,95 CRI



( Photometrically rated at 76.3-97 lm @350mA KQKS
The 'Street' versions LCW.CR7P.CC 4000 K ( 5L7N) are rated at 89.2-112 lm @350mA KSKU
& 97-121 lm @350mA for the bin KTLP)


My impression is that this led is a 'hidden goldmine' ...
I've used only 12 pieces along with the previous 3000 K warms ,in the same pcbs ...

Vegging under them was wonderful...
A relatively powerful ( for the 95 CRI ) Neutral White led ....

Resembles a " RGB " led ...Three main peaks at ~438 nm (blue ) ~546 nm ( green ) & 630 nm (red ) ....

I've to do some more tests(=>miniature grows) with that one ...

Maybe there are better ( Quantity / quality of light output ) neutrals out there,from that one ...
But ,then again ,maybe they are not so many of them ..

I think there is something with that one ...

(The combo 4000K 95CRI + 3000K 80CRI seems to really rock the boat !!!! )

LH CP7P-2T3T

660 nm Hyper Red

( 315-400 mW output light power at @350mA / 2.1 V ( 0.735 Watts ) !!!
355-450 mW output power for the 3T4T bins !!!
Probably the most powerful red led at 660 nm ....)


Ok...Ok...I know ....
Stop doing that ,now ...
Yeah,yeah ...
Guod was right ...

You need these leds for (massive ) flowering ...

But ...
Take care now ..
They are really powerful ...
They should be used with caution ...
And better at 150° emission angles ...

( They easily oversaturate the photosystems ...
You can notice that easily from the leaf angle ...
Top leaves ,underneath these leds ,after 4-5 hours of illumination ,
start to erect ...( Protect the photosynthetic mechanisms ) ...
Main root length could be an issue ,with these reds ...

Anyway ...

I LOVE THESE REDS !!
They produce bud .

There..
I said it ...

Some more " notes " ( Take it-with as much salt you wish- or leave it,of course ) :

-Leds in SMALL SCALE / SPACE horticulture ops work in numbers ..

Efficiently illuminating a SURFACE of foliage canopy ,does not mean only "Input power , Output Power" ...

At least not only ...

One has to " evenly " 'distribute' the (available ) light power ,all over the surface canopy ,as much as possible ...

With a powerful single point light source ( i.e . COBS ) ,while directly underneath the fixture light can reach big figures (radiometric power ),
at sides light power diminishes greatly ...

For the same power (at plug ) in case of many leds ( thus fixtures/panels ) , output power gets distributed more evenly over the
foliage canopy ...

Secondly ,many leds apart ,are easier to cool ...

Yes,it is way more expensive way ...
But thats the price of (real ) efficiency ...


-Wide emission angles ..
Your tent has nothing to do with the space/volume/height of a greenhouse .
Trust me on that one .
Spread those beams of light everywhere,baby !!
Better to keep leds closer to plants ,instead of using narrow cones of light ..
Light does not "penetrate" leaves ..
There is not such a thing as "fast HPS light "(because of more power ? ) and 'slow led light '...
Light that comes through a leave (if any ) is filtered .It is Green .Mainly .

Using lenses to narrow beam cones ,what you gain in' power ',
you lose in illuminated area ...
Better to focus ,then,directly on buds ....LOL !

The way I see it nowdays ...

2700 K >90CRI WW leds are nice ...
Maybe even necessary ...

They provide all the Amber-Red-Deep Red range of wls ..
And plenty of NIR ....


But if one tries to get his main reds from these leds (like I did ) ,probably he is going to regret it ...
1) Efficiency goes for holidays ,with these leds ...
( Due to Nitride Deep red Phosphor ..And the Green one ... )
2) Way too much NIR ,if those leds are used in numbers ...Bad-Bad idea ...(Specially while vegging )

I trust by now ,that they make a "super-dooper-flower-producing & swelling-engine-combo" with the 660 Hyper Reds ...
But they should be used in small numbers ..

I think of them as "Flowering-Maturing Boosters "



3000 K 80 CRI WW (generally ) ..

Maybe the best option for most ( current) WW of various led brands ...

A balance between Power & Spectral Quality ...

No so much phosphor load used as the previous WW 2700 K type ..
And not of so deep reds ...
( Losses due to conversion "gap" ,let us say for simplicity..
The bigger the wavelength 'gap' between the " excitation pump " and the "phosphor emission peak ",the bigger the
energy losses ..)




4000-5000 K CRI > 90 ....

It may seem weird ..
But that might be a good source of getting
all the three basic wl ' ranges'( Blue-Green-Red ) ,at approx same power levels ...
In one single package ...
With more output light power than warm whites ..(less phosphor load than WW leds )..

Those type of Neutral Whites of High CRI , probably need more in-deep search and experimentation with ..
Something is there ...



4000-5000 K ,70-80 CRI
Got to "Know" them ,from previous projects ....
Think Blue-Green ...
Simple enough ...
Those combined with reds ( 630/ 660 ) ,can grow fine plants..
(Another White-Red combo ,that works just fine !!! )




Those I think is the main types of phosphor conversion white leds that the amateur (and not only ) horticulturists (aka growers ) ,
can 'borrow' from the LED Human-Vision -oriented Industry ...


As for the monochromatics ....

( My view,always ..Do not forget ! )

-Deep /hyper reds around 640-660 nm is a must !
Forget the massive dense buds, without them ..

-Reds 620-640 ,can be used I guess ....Some ..


-Same feeling for Blue leds ....(430-470 nm )
Might aid strongly while vegging ...

Specially when space is an issue ...
Add blue leds ,will make stocky -compact bushes ....
If space ain't so much of a problem ...
One can do without them ,just fine ...
( Most Neutral Whites {70-80CRI} ,will cover the needs for blue wls ...)

Not good for the human vision ...
Might 'burn/fry ' some leaves ,if close enough ...

( No ,I do not like them at all...Not 'naked' ....
I love them ,when dressed their phosphor underwear '..
.....
Weird tastes ,I have ... )


- UVb :
Just leave it alone ...
It hurts ....
All we need is ~ .5 Watts (500mW ) of output power...
And that might cost up to $10.000 .. Or even more !
(No ,I'm not kidding.I'm perfectly serious about the price )

nice. Maybe "no lenses" mainly with a Little "mixed-in e.g.90°" lenses for reaching lower growth could be a good idea? Also i like the idea of cobs, but instead of 1x 100W id prefer 5x 20W cobs spread over a bigger area. I am about to build another DIY Panel with mix of 30W cobs and 3W diodes. Im thinking about having the cobs on the top big heatsink ---- and most of the 3W diodes on the sides with an angle and mixed-in lenes like this /-------\ to let light reach other regions of Growth. but idk if thats a good idea, everybody seems to have just flat heatsinks, i guess for a good reason

stardustsailor said:

4000 °K ,95 CRI
A relatively powerful ( for the 95 CRI ) Neutral White led ....

Resembles a " RGB " led ...Three main peaks at ~438 nm (blue ) ~546 nm ( green ) & 630 nm (red ) ....

Click to expand...

It's the green peak that gives it a higher lumen count but but that does not mean real power.

Have you ever thought about a cool white with the super efficient Oslon 660nm as a red assist? Would it need additional 630nm to balance out the deep red?

lax123 said:

nice. Maybe "no lenses" mainly with a Little "mixed-in e.g.90°" lenses for reaching lower growth could be a good idea?

Click to expand...

Dunno...I'm afraid of led beams ....
Too much light power 'confined' in small area ....
Reminds me of LASERs ...


Lower Growth ?

Wait now...
I'm asking myself ..

-"Do I really care or at least should care about the lower growth ?

"Why ,should I care for the very limitations of an artificial illumination system ( =>lower growth/'Far Deep Canopy' ) ,
when I should focus at it's "pros" ( For example "Constant Power Illumination Towards Time over the top surface of canopy /flower buds " ) ....


Another issue ....

Using lenses you will not aid the different wls ( cones of leds ) to 'mix/blend' well ,over the canopy ...
And those 'light patterns' are 'static' over the canopy ....

To overcome this ( I did that ) you 'll have to solder all the different leds in tight clusters ...

Heat/cooling becomes more serious of an issue,then ....
As also ,you will 'step back " to a more 'pointy' light source...

Dunno ...
Sounds Complicated enough ,to achieve some sort of 'balance',utilising this way ...

thx. I edited my last post. Do you have an opinion about using leds in angles in contrast to just using flat heatsinks (as described in my last post)?

MrFlux said:

It's the green peak that gives it a higher lumen count but but that does not mean real power.

Have you ever thought about a cool white with the super efficient Oslon 660nm as a red assist? Would it need additional 630nm to balance out the deep red?

Click to expand...

We are both right ....

Yes ,what you say stands as truth ,but what I claim is also truth ....

Same die...Yes more "lumens" because of the more emitted photons around the 555 nm peak of Human eye's sensitivity ...
But ....In order For the "White Light " to appear "Neutral" (Thus More bluish than Warm White ) ,there's less yellow phosphor
(mix of green-red in that particular case ) in the "recipe" ...
More Blue wls( as energy/'photons' ) from 'pump die ' are exiting the phosphor layer of a NW led ,than from a WW led ...
Thus it appears more bluish than WW ...
But that means also less conversion losses ( for many reasons )= More output power ...

And ...
That high CRI NW has lots of losses from the red 630 nitride phosphor ...
But still ,it is ( photometrically ) powerfull enough ...
So,yes the green peak 'adds ',then the red 'takes the given goods away " ....
Also blue(which has plenty ) is dim for human vision...
With those in mind ,it's high luminosity ,means also a high radiometric output...
( 1 peak is adding lumens ,two peaks are' stealing ' lumens ..
Approx in same rel power peaks,all three between them ...
Still ...)


As for your question ...
I think there was a( Seemingly Wonderous ) led fixture once approx like that ...
(it used Crees CW +630 ..Or was it CW +660 ? ...)
But ...
Something probably went wrong ,along the way ...

CW should be considered as " Low efficiency/Power blue leds with a tint of lime ! " in horticulture ...
(My point of view ....)

lax123 said:

thx. I edited my last post. Do you have an opinion about using leds in angles in contrast to just using flat heatsinks (as described in my last post)?

Click to expand...

I 'll say what I think about that :


Spread those beams of light everywhere,baby !!

(It's a grow tent/room/cabinet..They can't escape nowhere..
Let them mix,blend,bounce,jump,pass,dance free ....

Light in a cage ...
At least let it spread all over ...


I think you got my point ...

lax123 said:

Also i like the idea of cobs, but instead of 1x 100W id prefer 5x 20W cobs spread over a bigger area. I am about to build another DIY Panel with mix of 30W cobs and 3W diodes. Im thinking about having the cobs on the top big heatsink ---- and most of the 3W diodes on the sides with an angle and mixed-in lenes like this /-------\ to let light reach other regions of Growth. but idk if thats a good idea, everybody seems to have just flat heatsinks, i guess for a good reason

Click to expand...

Look ..

Indeed using 5x20 cobs is way better than 1x100 .
Still in comparison with 100x1 Watt leds ,it is left far behind ...
( Cooling -Efficiency -Coverage-Light power distribution/blending )

But ...

Well 5x20 cobs is a very convenient DIY way for obtaining a led grow light system (that actually works ) ..

FGS ,one does not have to reflow 100 leds ( Like I did ) ..
And that is a huge 'pro' ...

( If there's gonna be a 660nm red one,I'll jump in the 'COB boat' ,also)


Flat heatsinks ...Same issue ...Convenient ..Easy to obtain...
But also very easy ,to tilt ,if needed,over the plants ...

COBs are a great way of utilising led tech for growing plants .
Nobody said opposite and would be stupid to say so ...
It is not the best ( ? ) one,though...
Maybe the easiest ,by far from the rest of other ways ....

Some info :

http://ledlight.osram-os.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/OSRAM-OS_WEBINAR_HighCRI_06-26-12.pdf

http://e-archivo.uc3m.es/bitstream/handle/10016/15383/Emilio%20Giron%20Gonzalez_Final%20Project%202012_Aalto%20University_LE.pdf;jsessionid=4BCD07B9CAF7B2ABD5A508A5976510D9?sequence=2

(Mr.Flux ,check page 47 on this one ^^^ ........"4.3.1.3 Red (670 nm) and Cool White LEDs "
....And further on ....
The best mixture for plants is blue and red color;

since, this blend generates a rapid growth and provides appropriate properties for the

plant development and photosynthetic aspects. All these plant characteris

tics can be improved when some different colors are mixed with red and blue color.

According to the colors added for plants, their attributes can enhance their quality

for some aspects or other.

All results show notable color rendering index values, since these values are comprised
from 85 to 94, supplying fine light for general lighting.
However, CCT values are very variable because cool white and warm white
are acquired for different combinations.

Warm white or cool white can be indistinctively utilized in many applications,
but depending on planned application will be more interesting to use cool white or warm white.

)

Remember ' pink leds ' ?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2012/0161170.html
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2012091813A1?cl=en&hl=en

BRIEF SUMMARY

[0006] In accordance with one aspect of the present disclosure, a light emitting device for producing radiation optimized for plant growth is provided. The light emitting device comprises at least one LED chip having a peak wavelength disposed on a support, a phosphor material radiationally coupled to the at least one LED chip. The phosphor materials are capable of absorbing at least a portion of the radiation from the at least one LED chip and emitting light of a second wavelength. The light emitting device further includes an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the red and blue radiation to produce pink radiation.


[0007] In accordance with another aspect of the present disclosure, a light emitting device for producing radiation customized for plant growth. The light emitting device comprises at least one of a blue and near UV emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 400nm-490nm disposed on a support, at least one red emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 600 nm- 700 nm disposed on the support, and an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the red and blue radiation to produce pink radiation.


[0008j In accordance with yet another aspect of the present disclosure, a white light emitting device producing radiation customized for plant growth. The white light emitting device includes at least one of a blue and near UV LED chip having a peak wavelength from 400 nm-490 nm disposed on a support, and a phosphor material comprising a blend of one or more of blue, green, yellow, and red phosphors radiationally coupled to one or more of said at least one LED chip. The phosphor materials are capable of absorbing at least a portion of the radiation from the at least one LED chip and emitting light of a second wavelength. The white light emitting device further includes an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The white light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the various radiations.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[0047] The spectral distribution of white LEDs can be modified without changing the color appearance. Figure 8 illustrates three different types of white LED emitting 4100k (white LED for plants, common white LED, and common high CRI white LED) and one pink LED. All four curves have the same radiant power. If the photosynthesis blue range is defined as being from about 410nm to 490nm and the photosynthesis red range as being from 610nm to 700nm, there is only about 40% of the common white LED radiant power used by the photosynthesis of the plant. Implementing a high CRI white LED, this ratio increases to about 45%, and optimizing the spectral distribution for plants this ratio can go up to about 60%, as reflected in the spectral curves of Figure 8.




21. The white light emitting device according to claim 16, wherein said at least one LED chip includes near-UV LED chips and said blue phosphor comprises
Sr[SUB]5[/SUB](P0[SUB]4[/SUB])[SUB]3[/SUB]Cl:Eu[SUP]2+[/SUP].







( GE is full of suprises .... )