Outlaw pot growers in California fear legalization

stupidclown said:

i know i'll vote no. keep it underground. keep the risk in it and you keep the profits higher.

Click to expand...

/sarcasm on.

By all means, let's keep all that money flowing to the violent criminal cartels.

And all that enforcement-related public funding diverted to ever-growing law enforcement agencies.

stupidclown said:

this gets to wide spread weed will be the new tabacco big guys will buy all the land in nor-cal and put most of the growers out of work.

Click to expand...

Because everyone knows cannabis can't grow in Kentucky. Or Arkanasas. Or Alabama. Or Nebraska.

stupidclown said:

some will make it but how about the others that don't know any thing but growing and selling weed?

Click to expand...

Poor dullards. They have the cunning and skills to grow cannabis under Prohibition. How will they ever adapt to growing out in the open?

/sarcasm off.

stupidclown said:

alot would move on to sell real drugs or worse have to go to work for the corporate assholes that shut them down

Click to expand...

The corporations won't shut anyone down willing to adapt to a legitimate business model.

How many dealers deal because they are already criminal types anyway? They are drawn to dealing because it's illegitimate.

JO.... always a rip to read ur posts...

Nice dose of reality there.

The only real bad part to the bill that is proposed is the 25 sq. ft. maximum limit for space to grow in, I mean I literally have single plants that cover more space than that. The more and more I hear about it, I think I will be voting no ont the upcoming ballot, I have my medical liscense and as long as you have a little cash anyone can basicly get their liscense, I like it the way it is, especially now with the new supreme court ruling. Sorry to all those that will disagree, but I believe the full legalization would not be an entirely good thing. I mean 25sq ft to grow in outdoors, that is a joke, Im still undecided but leaning towards voting no, which is funny because a few months ago I was all for complete legalization. Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dispensaries will only pay $1000 for a lb of outdoor, are you kidding, must be some poor loooking buds. Ive gotten rid of my last years outdoor ranging from 1600-2700, you can grow just as good if not better outdoors if you know what your doing. On the whole I see your point that most peoples outdoor doesnt look as good as indoor but dont think that you cant grow same quality outdoors under the right circumstances. Peace!!!!

BluffinCali said:

Dispensaries will only pay $1000 for a lb of outdoor, are you kidding, must be some poor loooking buds. Ive gotten rid of my last years outdoor ranging from 1600-2700, you can grow just as good if not better outdoors if you know what your doing. On the whole I see your point that most peoples outdoor doesnt look as good as indoor but dont think that you cant grow same quality outdoors under the right circumstances. Peace!!!!

Click to expand...

I think the price drop is simply due to volume and competition....not quality.

The dispenseries can pick and choose now from a wide variety of growers.

BluffinCali said:

The only real bad part to the bill that is proposed is the 25 sq. ft. maximum limit for space to grow in, I mean I literally have single plants that cover more space than that. The more and more I hear about it, I think I will be voting no ont the upcoming ballot, I have my medical liscense and as long as you have a little cash anyone can basicly get their liscense, I like it the way it is, especially now with the new supreme court ruling. Sorry to all those that will disagree, but I believe the full legalization would not be an entirely good thing. I mean 25sq ft to grow in outdoors, that is a joke, Im still undecided but leaning towards voting no, which is funny because a few months ago I was all for complete legalization. Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

dude if you have plants that are 5x5 how many friggin plants do you need? The idea of the 25sq ft is for personal grows. that must be a 2-3lb plant if it is that size and unless you smoke more than and 8th a day your gonna be fine! If you are trying to pay your mortgage then yeah... you need a bigger garden!

Jed

stupidclown said:

for sure. the big walmart types won't get in the biz until its legal nation wide. but its only a matter of time. california made medical mj legal then other states followed. so if it doesn't pass here it won't spread. keep in mind when you buy "micro brews" they are mostly owned by big beer companys. so even if you have the best weed the big guys have the money to shut you down and buy your product name and most people would never know they where buying walmart weed.

Click to expand...

my point exactly.

i feel like if you vote to legalize weed then its just going to be the beginning of the end for all the people who have worked so hard to get it where it is today...

big companies (and the states greedy paws) will be all in our pockets (the independent growers if they exist as much as they do now and the people who buy it).

weed is expensive enough...legalizing it wont bring the price down...it will go up because the state will tax and fee the fuck out of it one way or another (either the cost will be passed onto the growers or the buyers).

think of cigs...they say it cost $1.20 or sumthing to make a pack of cigs...they sell the packs for $6-8 mattering where you live in the us...

same will happen with weed.

so your $250-$300 ounce will now cost you $300-350...im not game for lining the pockets of the scumbags who run the state with their 6 figure and up salaries.

screw them.

I can remember buying cigs for .... 55 cents. I can also remember distinctly being peeved when i walked into a bar one night and they raised the price to an astronomical 1.50 years later (up from 1.25, not .55). So they make cig's cheaper than 1.20. The reason why they are 6-8 bucks is Uncle Sammy. Tax tax tax.

I can also remember back when a nice fat Oz of Columbian gold was 30 bucks (it had a GREAT taste...almondy golden), and the cops didn't care much about you having it. There was no $$$$ motivating an arrest.

right now who exactly is putting forward the proposals? i mean the definition of what "legal" means and what controls and conditions are imposed? like the amount of growing space, who came up with 25sq ft? and what was the reasoning? and who was there to question the reasoning if there was any reasoning?

to me the question whether to legalise or not to legalise is clouding and masking that fact that no rational input is sort or desired from ordinary citizens as to the conditions and controls that should or shouldn't be attached. or did i miss the referendum and public consultations?

Under the status quo, medical patients are covered. That's great for them.

Everyone else who chooses to use cannabis is left out in the cold; forced to remain a criminal in the eyes of the law.

With re-legalization everybody benefits except some very bad people.

Even non-cannabis users benefit through legitimate job creation and less negative pressure on the state budget.

Whichever state re-legalizes first corners the market on a lot of legitimate cannabis based business and industry nationwide.

This is even good for non-Californians because we could buy our seeds in the U.S.A. No more U.S. Customs to worry about.

This is a no-brainer for California.

CrackerJax said:

I can remember buying cigs for .... 55 cents. I can also remember distinctly being peeved when i walked into a bar one night and they raised the price to an astronomical 1.50 years later (up from 1.25, not .55). So they make cig's cheaper than 1.20. The reason why they are 6-8 bucks is Uncle Sammy. Tax tax tax.

I can also remember back when a nice fat Oz of Columbian gold was 30 bucks (it had a GREAT taste...almondy golden), and the cops didn't care much about you having it. There was no $$$$ motivating an arrest.

Click to expand...

and this is also one of my strongest points in NOT legalizing it.

if you do the taxes will be higher...

everyone always votes to add taxes on cigs for things totally unrelated (ie. most recently a tax was put on cigs to help pay for children to go to preschool whose parents were unable to afford it).

that truly is a great thing but why tax cigs? i can understand cigs being taxed to help pay for all those taking up room in hospitals over smoking related illnesses but the same will happen to marijuana.

so i'd rather not see taxes on marijuana go to fix the roads or some other BS.

granted (as i said before) there are many benefits to it being completely legal but i believe in the long run everyone that votes to legalize will regret it at some point...

either because it cost so much money to buy (if you're mainly a user medicinally or otherwise) or because you're growing and have to pay tax after tax after fee...it (as i said before) corporate companies dont develop and open multi-million dollar operations that produce more and better than the individual can...

i think it should stay as part of a program (like prop 215) where there are ways to be legal but you still cant go into a store and buy some tree.

sm0keyrich510 said:

and this is also one of my strongest points in NOT legalizing it.

if you do the taxes will be higher...

everyone always votes to add taxes on cigs for things totally unrelated (ie. most recently a tax was put on cigs to help pay for children to go to preschool whose parents were unable to afford it).

that truly is a great thing but why tax cigs? i can understand cigs being taxed to help pay for all those taking up room in hospitals over smoking related illnesses but the same will happen to marijuana.

so i'd rather not see taxes on marijuana go to fix the roads or some other BS.

granted (as i said before) there are many benefits to it being completely legal but i believe in the long run everyone that votes to legalize will regret it at some point...

either because it cost so much money to buy (if you're mainly a user medicinally or otherwise) or because you're growing and have to pay tax after tax after fee...it (as i said before) corporate companies dont develop and open multi-million dollar operations that produce more and better than the individual can...

i think it should stay as part of a program (like prop 215) where there are ways to be legal but you still cant go into a store and buy some tree.

Click to expand...

More and better....

Those BASTARDS!



Prop 215 only applies to medicinal cannabis users. A healthy person who does not wish to commit fraud is out of luck.

Taxes are the fast track to legitimacy.

There is no free ride and cannabis users are foolish to expect one.

Johnnyorganic said:

Under the status quo, medical patients are covered. That's great for them.

Everyone else who chooses to use cannabis is left out in the cold; forced to remain a criminal in the eyes of the law.

With re-legalization everybody benefits except some very bad people.

Even non-cannabis users benefit through legitimate job creation and less negative pressure on the state budget.

Whichever state re-legalizes first corners the market on a lot of legitimate cannabis based business and industry nationwide.

This is even good for non-Californians because we could buy our seeds in the U.S.A. No more U.S. Customs to worry about.

This is a no-brainer for California.

Click to expand...

with legalization the only ones that benefit are those in powerful positions (big business/state/government).

we the people lose.

we will pay more for marijuana to grow it...to purchase it...etc.

big business and government will come in and tax the hell out of it until you have $30-$35 grams and such.

i'd rather pay the low price NOW and give my money to the growers who actually CARE about their plants than the government/big business who will put it in their already fat pockets.

think about this from all sides...not the "i can get high legally" aspect.

think of all the growers who have been supplying quality bud (like many places of CA...humboldt etc.) that will now be competing with multi-million dollar big business or getting screwed out of their earnings in taxes and fees?

i dont think its fair...especially to those who have made a living off of it and are producing top notch quality marijuana.

think people!

Johnnyorganic said:

More and better....

Those BASTARDS!



Prop 215 only applies to medicinal cannabis users. A healthy person who does not wish to commit fraud is out of luck.

Taxes are the fast track to legitimacy.

There is no free ride and cannabis users are foolish to expect one.

Click to expand...

its not fair those the growers who have put in the work. its really not. think of places like humboldt county who make a living out of this...and it stimulates their local economy...

make it legal and they are out of work and the government is back in business. not fair. the market is more open now that its illegal than if it were legal...

once its legal the camel's and newports of weed will take over...all the little people out of work or getting jobs with said companies not making nearly the $ they could have on their own.



prop 215 is a medicinal cannabis program. i agree. however its not very hard to fake insomnia or migraines...or anxiety (whatever it may be).

half of these places just ask you what you're problems are if you have one that mj treats you're in business. lets not be so square and worry about "committing fraud".

their are plenty of frauds in this world and claiming a false or half true illness to legally obtain cannabis is the least of anyones worries. its not hurting anyone...

im not saying everyone should go and lie but lets be honest you can get a card very easily.


taxes is the fast track to legitimacy but the fast track isnt always the best path.

im against anything that makes the growers/buyers give up their money...

sm0keyrich510 said:

with legalization the only ones that benefit are those in powerful positions (big business/state/government).

we the people lose.

we will pay more for marijuana to grow it...to purchase it...etc.

big business and government will come in and tax the hell out of it until you have $30-$35 grams and such.

i'd rather pay the low price NOW and give my money to the growers who actually CARE about their plants than the government/big business who will put it in their already fat pockets.

think about this from all sides...not the "i can get high legally" aspect.

think of all the growers who have been supplying quality bud (like many places of CA...humboldt etc.) that will now be competing with multi-million dollar big business or getting screwed out of their earnings in taxes and fees?

i dont think its fair...especially to those who have made a living off of it and are producing top notch quality marijuana.

think people!

Click to expand...

You need to think.

How will re-legalization be anything but good for a hobby grower who does not intend to sell?

How is purchasing regulated cannabis that is not produced with illegal herbicides, pesticides, or Mexican wee wee a bad thing?

What is so wrong with paying taxes? The only way to convince the norms we are serious is to agree to become integrated into society. Being willing to pay taxes just like they do will go a long way towards convincing them.

You don't want to pay taxes? Fine. Grow your own and don't sell it.

Problem solved.

Ive done decided.If this passes in cali,im looking for a house in a county that will accept it!Fuck indiana redneck laws!Lol.And theyre so damn slow with fixing roads lol.

haha lold at that ^

sm0keyrich510 said:

my point exactly.

i feel like if you vote to legalize weed then its just going to be the beginning of the end for all the people who have worked so hard to get it where it is today...

big companies (and the states greedy paws) will be all in our pockets (the independent growers if they exist as much as they do now and the people who buy it).

weed is expensive enough...legalizing it wont bring the price down...it will go up because the state will tax and fee the fuck out of it one way or another (either the cost will be passed onto the growers or the buyers).

think of cigs...they say it cost $1.20 or sumthing to make a pack of cigs...they sell the packs for $6-8 mattering where you live in the us...

same will happen with weed.

so your $250-$300 ounce will now cost you $300-350...im not game for lining the pockets of the scumbags who run the state with their 6 figure and up salaries.

screw them.

Click to expand...

Growers and dealers have had their chance to cash in. Sorry guys that is going to come to an end if it is legal. Start saving your cash and taking some business management courses. Start talking to your fellow growers about forming a cooperative so that you can compete with big business. Start talking to your neighbors about leasing their land. Start looking at old warehouses that will allow for a reasonable operation, or storefronts that could be the next Barney's Farm. Start preparing yourself for the new world!

Again, if some growers didn't get greedy and try to cash in on gigantic crops things would be different. If you the commercial grower sold your own shit by the zip we wouldn't need to worry about this at all. Shit, from what I have read recently, Cali buds are sometimes selling for $1K per pound in volume? That doesn't sound so good to me. Why not just sell by the zip and grow a quarter of the crop?

Don't tell me that the community owes the big baller growers because we don't owe them shit! The reason there is crime is because people got greedy and started trying to make the big score. If you are a guy who is pulling 100ish pounds a year and selling to gangs and thugs don't skip around the pot comunity and tell us you are doing us any favors! You are screwing us by selling to those guys. I have no love for that kind of bullshit. The reason that prices are high is because it is illegal and the primary focus of the DEA. It is the primary focus of the DEA because pot related gang activity is responsible for the funding of and instigation of big time crime. DEA loves the big score cash bags they find too. We now have thugs and cartels controlling the distribution and it is all fucked up. All thanks to the big baller growers who are crying that they won't be able to survive in the legalized market.

And whats this about taxing like cigarettes? I already pay 350-400 per zip of typically unnamed nugs if I can even get a price break on a zip. $60 an 8th and if I'm lucky I get a quarter for $100. REAL quality gets $125 per quarter. But, do you really think that the government would be stupid enough to tax weed like cigarettes? Unless the people who make the laws want things to fail, they will price fix weed so that not even the cartels can compete. That's business 101 man... eliminate the competition! What would be the deterrent for stopping illegal production and distribution if it was easy to compete with legal weed prices? And why do you think tobacco taxes have gone up every year? Very few people grow it, a huge part of the nation is hopelessly addicted to it and we'll will pay it. The biggest reason though is that the number of smokers has gone down!!! They don't want to give up the income they had from tobacco taxes so each year they project how much will be sold and how much money they want and divide it up. I doubt there would ever be a decline in pot sales once it was regulated... Alcohol would probably be hurtin though! Have alcohol taxes gone up? In the past 55 years beer and wine have gone up once and booze twice. They are looking at raising it again to cover all the expenditure on treatment programs which dwarfs the actual taxes collected. MJ won't ever have that problem because it is about as addictive as your morning coffee. Regardless though, as things stablize and the criminal element is at bay, I'm sure they will raise things little by little to get us back to where we are now.

It won't ever be a high profit business like it is now but the potential for a highly profitable volume business is there. I think it is the small scale commercial growers and maybe even the personal growers that have the best chance. They are looking at this as a huge opportunity to expand their op. The ballers are too busy bitching about it. The growers in the middle probably don't know what to think!

Jed

sm0keyrich510 said:

its not fair those the growers who have put in the work. its really not. think of places like humboldt county who make a living out of this...and it stimulates their local economy...

make it legal and they are out of work and the government is back in business. not fair. the market is more open now that its illegal than if it were legal...

once its legal the camel's and newports of weed will take over...all the little people out of work or getting jobs with said companies not making nearly the $ they could have on their own.



prop 215 is a medicinal cannabis program. i agree. however its not very hard to fake insomnia or migraines...or anxiety (whatever it may be).

half of these places just ask you what you're problems are if you have one that mj treats you're in business. lets not be so square and worry about "committing fraud".

their are plenty of frauds in this world and claiming a false or half true illness to legally obtain cannabis is the least of anyones worries. its not hurting anyone...

im not saying everyone should go and lie but lets be honest you can get a card very easily.


taxes is the fast track to legitimacy but the fast track isnt always the best path.

im against anything that makes the growers/buyers give up their money...

Click to expand...

It's true. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

And you know you've gone through the looking glass when the Southern Baptists vote with the Drug Kingpins.

Consider your allies on this issue:

Coppers who benefit from inflated budgets; and from Civil Forfeiture to buy toys they cannot get Appropriations for otherwise.

The Cartels who make fortunes and take it all out of country. They have a nice little war waging in and around the border region of Northern Mexico.

The anti-freedom types who like the police state.

The moralistic types who feel perfectly fine dictating to you what is acceptable behavior, even if the behavior in question hurts no one.

Prison guards. More taxes funding drug enforcement initiatives means job security.

Probation officers. How can they run your life if what you are doing is not illegal?

Defense attorneys. Yep, attorneys.

And look who is on my side of the issue.

For me, however, it's all about freedom. That's right. Freedom. You are on the opposite side of freedom. You must be so proud.

And you will forgive me if I object to committing fraud just so you can continue your tax evasion unabated.

Have you considered that someone might not want to self-identify as a brokedick?

Probably not. That would be square.

I support the fast track to legitimacy. You support the no track.