overwatering or underwatering?

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you here in that you can over-water in a single watering. Over-watering can lead to root rot if the medium takes too long to dry and your plant isn't completely root-bound. If someone's humidity is above 50% with poor airflow, you run the risk of molds growing in your medium. There is a reason we water our plants different amounts at different stages of its life and that's because over-watering can cause problems. But you're right in that it's important to let the medium dry out to a point before watering again. Knowing how much to water and when to water is part of being a great grower.
And I have to disagree with you and agree with Jaw. You cannot overwater in a single watering. And why would you want your plant completely rootbound? quote "Over-watering can lead to root rot if the medium takes too long to dry and your plant isn't completely root-bound."? And as Jaw added, poor drainage and shitty soil leading to root rot does not constitute overwatering. You just have shitty soil.
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
And I have to disagree with you and agree with Jaw. You cannot overwater in a single watering. And why would you want your plant completely rootbound? quote "Over-watering can lead to root rot if the medium takes too long to dry and your plant isn't completely root-bound."? And as Jaw added, poor drainage and shitty soil leading to root rot does not constitute overwatering. You just have shitty soil.
Lets say you just transplant a plant from a 12 ounce cup into a 1 gallon bucket. Would you water with 1 gallon of water? No, you'd water with 12-16 ounces so the roots can start growing and search for water. In addition to the negatives I mentioned before, chronic over-watering means you're feeding your plants less throughout it's flowering period. Less food means less yield for someone like me who uses a peat-based soil-less medium. You don't have to agree with me as I respect your opinion, but I stick by my statement that we water in different volumes depending on the needs and size of the plant. Over or under-doing that results in a less-than-perfect grow.
 

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
I would water until I got good runoff. Always have, always do. And I go from 16oz cups to 3 gal pots. No matter if it is a feeding or just a watering, the 3 gal pots get at least 1 gal of water. And I too use a peat based soiless mix. Why would you just want to water the roots that are present. Wet the entire medium and make the plant go find the moisture.
 

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
Lets say you just transplant a plant from a 12 ounce cup into a 1 gallon bucket. Would you water with 1 gallon of water? No, you'd water with 12-16 ounces so the roots can start growing and search for water. In addition to the negatives I mentioned before, chronic over-watering means you're feeding your plants less throughout it's flowering period. Less food means less yield for someone like me who uses a peat-based soil-less medium. You don't have to agree with me as I respect your opinion, but I stick by my statement that we water in different volumes depending on the needs and size of the plant. Over or under-doing that results in a less-than-perfect grow.
Okay, I can agree with that, in some situations. As cowboylogic mentioned...it's a matter of your drainage efficiency. With enough perlite added, overwatering isn't an issue, or very rarely. I see so many noobs wondering why their plants aren't getting any bigger, and are lucky to have 8" plants after 4 weeks of veg. That's because they don't water thoroughly, leaving the edges of the pot insufficiently damp, preventing the roots from filling the pot, limiting growth. Basically, there's no sense in transplanting, if you aren't going to water thoroughly, IMO.

I appreciate that you added that bit of info, because I didn't include the exceptions. :) I type for shit, so I'll blame it on laziness. :lol:
 

mygirls

Medical Marijuana (MOD)
so over the past few days the leaves have started yellowing slightly (i know i still need to transplant and separate these two plants into two pots - when is the best time to do that?).

i water usually once in the morning, but the soil in this seems to dry up very quickly maybe due to there being two plants. i only water when the soil is like dust dry, but i have been watering fairly frequently.

ill come home from work 8 hours later after watering once and its dry so leaning more towards underwatering but ive also been told watering more than once a day is not recommended.

View attachment 1043110
looks under watered to me.. soil looks really dry...
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Okay, I can agree with that, in some situations. As cowboylogic mentioned...it's a matter of your drainage efficiency. With enough perlite added, overwatering isn't an issue, or very rarely. I see so many noobs wondering why their plants aren't getting any bigger, and are lucky to have 8" plants after 4 weeks of veg. That's because they don't water thoroughly, leaving the edges of the pot insufficiently damp, preventing the roots from filling the pot, limiting growth. Basically, there's no sense in transplanting, if you aren't going to water thoroughly, IMO.

I appreciate that you added that bit of info, because I didn't include the exceptions. :) I type for shit, so I'll blame it on laziness. :lol:
Cowboy, this question is directed at you as well; what are your soil mixes like? Personally, I go with about a 60/40 mix of sunshine mix #8 and vermiculite. I used to add perlite but stopped because I saw no added benefit. With my soil blend, I water every 3-4 days throughout the lifecycle which based on the 'pick up and feel technique' is how long it takes the plant to consume the water. Some of the more vigorous plants will need watered every 2-3 days.
 

backwoods

Active Member
yeah the humidity is low, around 40% usually, but the heat is usually 80-85f. ac unit coming soon. is it safe to transplant them at that stage? i have kgrow fert with nutes and bigger pots ready to go.
Ok. My plants looked exactly like yours when they were that age. I had exactly the same environmental conditions as well. Here's what I think is going on:

You said it takes eight hours for the soil to dry out after a watering. I believe this is the problem. When your plants get watered, the soil gets completely saturated for a short amount of time until your low humidity and somewhat high temps suck the dirt dry. I also suspect from the straws that there is too much air movement for these skinny stemmed plants to handle. Too much wind can also contribute to the dirt drying too fast.

Another potential problem is that you may not have enough actual dirt in your pot. If you had a bigger pot, the top level of soil would dry, and the lower levels would remain moist for longer.

Here's my solution:

Transplant into it's final pot right now. It should be somewhere around 2 gallons or more. Be very careful not to disturb this stressed plants root system. Try to get it out in one piece.

After you transplant, water so that all of the dirt in the pot gets saturated and runoff occurs.

In 24 hours, water again. This time, only use the amount of water you were using when it was in the small pot, plus just a little bit more. Water only directly below where the plants leaves are, not anywhere close to the edge of the pot.

Do this again in 24 hours, maybe a little more water this time.

After that, wait something like 32 to 36 hours and water with a little more than last time.

Gradually(like maybe over a few days to about a week and 1/2) increase the amount of water and the time between waterings.

At the end of this process you should be watering about every 2 days, maybe every 3. You should be watering the entire surface equally, and it should be flowing out of the drainage holes. (measuring how much water you are using every time is an important step to providing a consistent watering schedule for your plants. I use about 1 gallon for my 2 gallon pot.)

Using this process ensures two things. First it addresses your moisture problem immediately, without causing undue stress on the plant that multiple transplants would create.
Second, this method of gradual increase of water prevents the new "unrooted" soil from rotting(rotting not rooting), which would likely occur if you were to saturate the entire pot at every watering from the time of transplanting.

Oh yeah. If I were you I would not try to separate these two plants. Just cut one off at the base so you don't have to disturb the other one.

edit: I do not think the cause of this problem is underfeeding. From the picture, the plant looks very young. You probably wont need, nor should you, use fertilizer until it is older.
 

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
Cowboy, this question is directed at you as well; what are your soil mixes like? Personally, I go with about a 60/40 mix of sunshine mix #8 and vermiculite. I used to add perlite but stopped because I saw no added benefit. With my soil blend, I water every 3-4 days throughout the lifecycle which based on the 'pick up and feel technique' is how long it takes the plant to consume the water. Some of the more vigorous plants will need watered every 2-3 days.
My base soil mix:
1 cuft. peatmoss
24 cups worm castings
1/2 cup dolomite lime
1/4 cup Rock Phosphate
2/3 cup greensand (many great benefits, added drainage being one of them)
1/4 cup azomite
1 cup kelp meal
1/3 cup epsoms salt
7 tbl rare earth
6 qts perlite
2 qts vermiculite

My watering time table for adult plants are pretty close to yours.
 

Xenosis

Active Member
Ok. My plants looked exactly like yours when they were that age. I had exactly the same environmental conditions as well. Here's what I think is going on:

You said it takes eight hours for the soil to dry out after a watering. I believe this is the problem. When your plants get watered, the soil gets completely saturated for a short amount of time until your low humidity and somewhat high temps suck the dirt dry. I also suspect from the straws that there is too much air movement for these skinny stemmed plants to handle. Too much wind can also contribute to the dirt drying too fast.

Another potential problem is that you may not have enough actual dirt in your pot. If you had a bigger pot, the top level of soil would dry, and the lower levels would remain moist for longer.

Here's my solution:

Transplant into it's final pot right now. It should be somewhere around 2 gallons or more. Be very careful not to disturb this stressed plants root system. Try to get it out in one piece.

After you transplant, water so that all of the dirt in the pot gets saturated and runoff occurs.

In 24 hours, water again. This time, only use the amount of water you were using when it was in the small pot, plus just a little bit more. Water only directly below where the plants leaves are, not anywhere close to the edge of the pot.

Do this again in 24 hours, maybe a little more water this time.

After that, wait something like 32 to 36 hours and water with a little more than last time.

Gradually(like maybe over a few days to about a week and 1/2) increase the amount of water and the time between waterings.

At the end of this process you should be watering about every 2 days, maybe every 3. You should be watering the entire surface equally, and it should be flowing out of the drainage holes. (measuring how much water you are using every time is an important step to providing a consistent watering schedule for your plants. I use about 1 gallon for my 2 gallon pot.)

Using this process ensures two things. First it addresses your moisture problem immediately, without causing undue stress on the plant that multiple transplants would create.
Second, this method of gradual increase of water prevents the new "unrooted" soil from rotting(rotting not rooting), which would likely occur if you were to saturate the entire pot at every watering from the time of transplanting.

Oh yeah. If I were you I would not try to separate these two plants. Just cut one off at the base so you don't have to disturb the other one.

edit: I do not think the cause of this problem is underfeeding. From the picture, the plant looks very young. You probably wont need, nor should you, use fertilizer until it is older.
thanks, this was all very helpful. going to transplant today and hopefully be able to split up the plants but worse come to worse i can just kill the other like you said.
 
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