Overwhelmed - Lighting

Rahz said:

You could build a veg lamp with V29s. I just recently built a small 60 watt veg lamp using Vero 18s.

Honestly, it might be best to take it one lamp at a time though. Why not grab a cheap 100W CFL panel for veg and build one 450w LED for one 1.2x1.2 meter flower chamber? If you like the results then build another one. If you got an air cooled 600w HPS you could run it in the other 1.2x1.2 and compare results.

Click to expand...

Why not just veg and flower under the same panel and not make things more complicated than they need to be. 3000k-4000k CCT cobs work well full cycle, there is no need for a 'veg' mode or a 'boom' mode now days. The supporting evidence for such modes with older monochrome panels was suspect in the first place.

SSS2015 said:

ok so let's follow this build your own a little more

will the vero29's look after veging and flowering?

Click to expand...

Yes but they also cost twice as much per emitter. I'd say just go cheap and dirty and get something rolling. If this is your first grow you won't be able to quantify the difference anyhow since you have no frame of reference. Focus on your gardening skills before getting into the efficiency game that many on this forum choose to indulge in.

Most of the people on here building high dollar LED lights are veteran growers within their respective spaces. I've used the 4000k vero line for veg and flower with multiple species of plants, nothing but vigorous growth in all situations. If nothing else it will be a good base mark for you.

Rahz said:

You could build a veg lamp with V29s. I just recently built a small 60 watt veg lamp using Vero 18s.

Honestly, it might be best to take it one lamp at a time though. Why not grab a cheap 100W CFL panel for veg and build one 450w LED for one 1.2x1.2 meter flower chamber? If you like the results then build another one. If you got an air cooled 600w HPS you could run it in the other 1.2x1.2 and compare results.

Click to expand...

i need a one time build solution. I need to monopolise someone's time for a short period, so i'd rather do it in one lump sum.

I have one space of 1.2m x 1m2x 1.6 high, the other will be approx 0.8m x 1.2m x 1.6m. The second chamber would be split in two i think, lower for clones upper for vege

bicit said:

Why not just veg and flower under the same panel and not make things more complicated than they need to be. 3000k-4000k CCT cobs work well full cycle, there is no need for a 'veg' mode or a 'boom' mode now days. The supporting evidence for such modes with older monochrome panels was suspect in the first place.

Click to expand...

I was talking about a lamp for his veg space, since he mentioned it in his first post. Maybe he's wanting to do perpetual? I agree with your comments though.

SSS2015 said:

i need a one time build solution. I need to monopolise someone's time for a short period, so i'd rather do it in one lump sum.

I have one space of 1.2m x 1m2x 1.6 high, the other will be approx 0.8m x 1.2m x 1.6m. The second chamber would be split in two i think, lower for clones upper for vege

Click to expand...

Ahh ok, I read your post wrong then. So just the one flowering space. As for bicit's comments, it's worth considering. The difference between using the V18s or under driving V29s is upfront savings versus savings over time. There is also a 600w HPS option using an air cooled hood. You can get them pretty close to the plants that way.

As far as the Mars 1200, you would be better off with a 400w HPS. About the same output and much cheaper, less heat.

Anyway, using V29s would be $240 more, $320 more if you went with 18 of them. I doubt you will find such perfect driver combinations for the Vero18 though, so that would eat into the cost difference.

I should have specified, Ideally i'd love a perpetual setup please.

I need lighting solutions for all three spots.

Only reason I'm choosing LED is because of reduced heat. But it's expensive, and i don't know if it really does reduce that much heat.

I like the idea of investing now in a better panel, why is it better in the long run in this instance Rahz?

guys i have to say the one stop solution, even overpriced is something that is really drawing me at the moment.

Can we price the 18 cob, V29's, use it for both vege and flower. We'd need 3 of those fancy 150w power thingy's linked earlier, but also 18 of the Arctic cooling sink/fan is that right? one per cob? a wooden frame to support it all?

The V29 lamp would be 450 watts rather than 500, so would put off less heat. V29s running at 33% normal current would last well beyond the rated lifespan. Including emitters, coolers, aluminum for the frame and various wiring and hardware, probably about $1000. Maybe $750 for the Vero 18 version.

Whether you use one of those overpriced boxes is up to you. They might work ok... I think one of them uses T5 fluorescent bulbs though? Make sure to get the other one.

Rahz said:

The V29 lamp would be 450 watts rather than 500, so would put off less heat. V29s running at 33% normal current would last well beyond the rated lifespan. Including emitters, coolers, aluminum for the frame and various wiring and hardware, probably about $1000. Maybe $750 for the Vero 18 version.

Whether you use one of those overpriced boxes is up to you. They might work ok... I think one of them uses T5 fluorescent bulbs though? Make sure to get the other one.

Click to expand...

So the V29 lamp would sort out my 1.2m 1.2m space?

with the Grow Boxes and T5 panels, both use fluorescent for clones, one uses fluorescent for clones and sub vege, then into the flowering chamber for some vege and flowering. it's designed to be a high turnover machine. it's got awesome ratings.

18 V29s would be a very high output solution for that space.

Really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If spending $3500 on an all in one solution makes you happy, that's cool, but you should figure out what your expectations are and make sure the solution will fit the bill. That T5 box might have good reviews, but T5 is about 80 LPW and I've never gotten good yield from them. Plants veg well under fluorescent.

If you growing for personal use and don't want things complicated, consider doing a single plant soil grow under a 400w HPS. The ballast could be located outside the space, and with an air cooled hood you could pipe most of the bulbs heat out as well. It would cost a couple hundred bucks and is super simple.

If you're wanting to grow as much as possible, a 400-450 watt LED like we've been talking about or a 600w HPS would be the way to go.

ok look the grow box idea turned out too expensive for the box i want so i'm back to building my own.

I'd like to design it based on the grow box though. 3 chambers setup for perpetual

So i've got my led panel or a 600w HID. Is my space too small for a 600w HID? how would i cool it? i'd need one fan for cooling the light and another for ventilating the room wouldn't i?

i'm tempted to go the LED to avoid the need to cool. could I get away with just ventilating the spaces if i went LED? if i had a dimmer switch, would dimming it when the plants get

One fan for the HPS or 18 for the LED, your choice.

Although...

I run 14 Vero 29s at .7 amps passively cooled on radial heatsinks. That's in about 10 square feet of grow space. At 25 watts (.7 amps x 35.6 volts) the radial heatsinks do a great job. They're barely warm to the touch. I suggested fan cooling because you would know you're getting close to the Min temp of 25C and achieving close to the rated lumen output of 155-160 per watt at those temps. I might be getting 140, 145, I'm not sure. I have measured the temps on those heat sinks using a 38 watt emitter and came up with 56C which ain't bad. Also, the radials are going to run about $12 each. The Arctic Alpines can be had for $10, so price will be similar either way.

So, it's possible to build the lamp I've been talking about without fans for sure.

Although consider that with a 600w HPS you might be able to get away with extracting hot air with just the hood fan. Someone else might want to chime in on that because I haven't done it before.

As far as your headroom, I've seen plants growing right up to the glass on air cooled HID hoods so you would have the space between the glass and soil, probably about 3 feet. If you went LED you would still have the filter in there, unless you mounted it outside. Doing that you could probably get the lamp within 6 inches of the top. You can see my lamp is very low profile.

Rahz wont' i need two fans for the HID? one of the lamp and one for the space?

If i can get away with one fan for the 600 watt it might be the way to go, i can use my electrician's time in helping with designing the box

dude wicked setup

what sort of lights do you recommend for the smaller veging and cloning chamber?

I'll need two lights, i want to try and model it after that box i saw, with smaller chamber 0.8m wide x 1.2m deep x 1.6m high, and have clones on top under one light and small veging and maybe a mother plant under another light

SSS2015 said:

Rahz wont' i need two fans for the HID? one of the lamp and one for the space?

If i can get away with one fan for the 600 watt it might be the way to go, i can use my electrician's time in helping with designing the box

Click to expand...

You can put a carbon filter on the other end of an air cooled reflector and use just the one vent fan. Works very well but I recommend getting a fan controller.

bicit said:

You can put a carbon filter on the other end of an air cooled reflector and use just use the one vent fan. Works very well but I recommend getting a fan controller.

Click to expand...

Hadn't done it before, that's what I was hoping to hear.

SSS2015 said:

dude wicked setup

what sort of lights do you recommend for the smaller veging and cloning chamber?

I'll need two lights, i want to try and model it after that box i saw, with smaller chamber 0.8m wide x 1.2m deep x 1.6m high, and have clones on top under one light and small veging and maybe a mother plant under another light

Click to expand...

I've had good results with CFL in veg and cloning. LED is an option there too. I build a small LED lamp for my clone chamber. I'm just giving it a try. This will be my first go cloning under LED. I did start some pepper seeds under LED a few weeks ago and worked great.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-70-watt-hundred-dollar-veg-lamp.870199/

Rahz, Bicit and the rest of you that helped i am so grateful.

For now I am gonna explore the grow box turn key option. it may not be possible but i want to explore it.

Thank you so much for your answers and please give me your thoughts in the future if i am forced down the DIY path.