Oxygen to the root mass,why is hydro so much faster.

The whole pot size thing is a constant debate,root bound & 1 gallon per month of plant life,we've all heard all of it,does anybody know who perpetuated this & what basis they had for forming the opinion about 1 gallon a month.

Ok now compare hydro growth rate to soil growth rate,the soil rates are much slower,both grows are being fed the same things which are nutes & water,the only thing seperating the two is the delievery system for the nutrients & water needed to sustain the plant.

In hydro the oxygen delievered directly to the root mass is far more than in soil due to the more frequent waterings,in soil oxygen gets depleted very fast,water sitting in the soil looses oxygen content the longer it sits.

With both grows being fed pretty much the same nutes the only reason i can see for the excellerated growth rate of hydro is oxygen delievery,after reading things FDD & Al fuct have wrote in various threads i decided to try limiting pot size to 1 gallon containers,at first there was no excellerated growth rate but once the plants became large enough where they could be watered daily there was seriously increased growth rate,not just a little increase but a very large increase.

Now i submit this question.

Why is the size of the root mass so important as long as its large enough to deliever water & nutes to the plant,what are the supposed benifits of a massive root mass over a small root mass.

I would just think that logically if there is a larger root mass it would = more nutrients delivered to the plant at a faster rate.

Plus in soil it takes longer for the roots to push through a solid medium like soil, which would then in turn slow down the growth of the plant, whereas with hydro there is no resistance to the growth of the roots so it builds its root mass faster and accelerates the growth of the plant so much more than with soil.

my head hurts

sir smokesalot said:

I would just think that logically if there is a larger root mass it would = more nutrients delivered to the plant at a faster rate.

Plus in soil it takes longer for the roots to push through a solid medium like soil, which would then in turn slow down the growth of the plant, whereas with hydro there is no resistance to the growth of the roots so it builds its root mass faster and accelerates the growth of the plant so much more than with soil.

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All good points & points i thought about for quite a while.

Lets take this a step further with the roots.

What happens once plants are into heavy flowering,root production slows down severely taking away much of that aspect of increased growth rate,if the roots are barely growing then the medium would be of no consequence i'd think.

As for increased nutrient delievery with larger root mass the whole idea seems backwards,the plant is only going to use what nutrients it needs,after that any nutes left over will either burn the plant or stay locked within the soil.

I propose that the smaller pot will allow the root mass to deliever the needed nutes just as effectively as the larger root mass because of the increased watering/feeding schedule,plus you gain the massive benifit of added oxygen to the root mass every time you water.

Lets look at this from a perpetual harvest sea of green perspective,a clone is put directly into flowering,after a few weeks root production has slowed in favor of bud production,by the end of the grow the majority of the plants resources have been directed twords bud production with root formation being secondary,if large root mass played a major role in bud production wouldnt a sog plant grown using this method experience poor bud production & low yeilds.?

Panhead, I haven't grown in soil, but I do grow in coco. Take the soil out of the equation and you can drip feed your plants in the coco medium and get same yields, maybe larger since coco is more forgiving than rocks. I'm doing a new run of coco and it is day 2 I will take some pics as I go along to show how coco can outperform hydroton. I dealt with hydroton for the past 8 months and have to say coco is definately the way to go. Hope this helps. Of course if all you have is soil then mentally omit my post.

Coco also develops massive root mass, but I also use roots excel during the first 3 weeks of flowering. That could make a big difference in your situation as well.

mister420green said:

Panhead, I haven't grown in soil, but I do grow in coco. Take the soil out of the equation and you can drip feed your plants in the coco medium and get same yields, maybe larger since coco is more forgiving than rocks. I'm doing a new run of coco and it is day 2 I will take some pics as I go along to show how coco can outperform hydroton. I dealt with hydroton for the past 8 months and have to say coco is definately the way to go. Hope this helps. Of course if all you have is soil then mentally omit my post.

Coco also develops massive root mass, but I also use roots excel during the first 3 weeks of flowering. That could make a big difference in your situation as well.

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Moving away from soil is in my future,my plans were to get a flood & drain system up & running in one of my rooms,master flood & drain technique then put up an areomist system in another room,all the while continuing one room with soil so i wouldnt be without smoke while i learned the other methods im interested in.

I made it as far as getting all the gear needed for the flood & drain tables then my wife got sick,i cant devote the time right now to learning other methods,soil is what i know & am comfortable with,when my wife's health improves im heading straight to flood & drain,soil is way too slow & too much work.

hi, all ive ever grown is hydro in flood and drain systems (sence 94) i use 2 use mix my own rw but now i use 6x6 cubes, when my plants are done my roots are thick and 2 1/2 feet long the coca mat gives the roots more growing room, i was just telling a friend of mine 2day that for the last 3 days ive been feeding 6 times a day and ive had double the growth with only a lil burning im going 2 delute my nutes a lil and keep them on 6 a day 2 see what happens, ive tried soil 1 time and couldnt believe how hard it was 2 keep up and how slow they grew soil is not 4 me, i can leave my hydro for a week at a time if i wanted and theyd be just fine unless a pump goes out ive had that happen twice lost all on that tray each time, dont buy cheap pumps use fish tank powerheads,take care

mister420green said:

Panhead, I haven't grown in soil, but I do grow in coco. Take the soil out of the equation and you can drip feed your plants in the coco medium and get same yields, maybe larger since coco is more forgiving than rocks. I'm doing a new run of coco and it is day 2 I will take some pics as I go along to show how coco can outperform hydroton. I dealt with hydroton for the past 8 months and have to say coco is definately the way to go. Hope this helps. Of course if all you have is soil then mentally omit my post.

Coco also develops massive root mass, but I also use roots excel during the first 3 weeks of flowering. That could make a big difference in your situation as well.

Click to expand...

I have grown only in flood and drain systems. I have tried soil a few times and had trouble with the plants not growing worth a shit, and burning the liveing hell out of them. But I have wanted the better smell and taste of soil. So a friend of mine talked me into growing with COCO and Organic Nutrients. (Iguanna Juice). I will never go back to hydro again. This COCO is the SHIT!!! Almost impossible to over water. My flood and drain system went through 40-50 gallons of nuts a week, and with COCO I can grow the same amount of plants and only use about 7-10 gallons of nuts. With a Drip System. And the plants grow about as fast as Hydro also. Plus in Hydro, once My roots came out the bottom of the container and wove into the COCO matt, I could not move them around.

COCO in 3 gallon grow bags is the way I am sticking.

PANHEAD: Your question seems to have some merit I think. But then again, This is my first crop in only COCO.

panhead said:

All good points & points i thought about for quite a while.

Lets take this a step further with the roots.

What happens once plants are into heavy flowering,root production slows down severely taking away much of that aspect of increased growth rate,if the roots are barely growing then the medium would be of no consequence i'd think.

As for increased nutrient delievery with larger root mass the whole idea seems backwards,the plant is only going to use what nutrients it needs,after that any nutes left over will either burn the plant or stay locked within the soil.

I propose that the smaller pot will allow the root mass to deliever the needed nutes just as effectively as the larger root mass because of the increased watering/feeding schedule,plus you gain the massive benifit of added oxygen to the root mass every time you water.

Lets look at this from a perpetual harvest sea of green perspective,a clone is put directly into flowering,after a few weeks root production has slowed in favor of bud production,by the end of the grow the majority of the plants resources have been directed twords bud production with root formation being secondary,if large root mass played a major role in bud production wouldnt a sog plant grown using this method experience poor bud production & low yeilds.?

Click to expand...

yeah your right about the nutes that it will only take what it needs now that i think about it. i still think that the density of the soil causes the initial root growth while vegging to be much slower though than hyrdo or aero which would account for the increased growth time, but i think your right in regards to the fact that you can still have a smaller pot and deliver the nutes as effectively as with a larger pot, you would just need to water much more often and watch the plant more closely to prevent nute burn or other issues.

My first hydro grow was in an aerogarden and i really didnt have any problems given that it only has a one gallon res, but it meant that i had to mointor the ppm levels, ph and general water levels much more than if it had a 5 gallon rez for example.

I think probably that biggest advantage of a hydro or aero setup is the oxegen delivery to the roots. that why most people mix in mediums into soil like perlite or vermiculite or grow in coco because the mediums are much less dense and allows better oxygen delivery. That would also explain why aero seems to allow for the highest yeilds and growth given a constant time frame and all other factors being equal.

Lord Dangly Bits said:

I have grown only in flood and drain systems. I have tried soil a few times and had trouble with the plants not growing worth a shit, and burning the liveing hell out of them. But I have wanted the better smell and taste of soil. So a friend of mine talked me into growing with COCO and Organic Nutrients. (Iguanna Juice). I will never go back to hydro again. This COCO is the SHIT!!! Almost impossible to over water. My flood and drain system went through 40-50 gallons of nuts a week, and with COCO I can grow the same amount of plants and only use about 7-10 gallons of nuts. With a Drip System. And the plants grow about as fast as Hydro also. Plus in Hydro, once My roots came out the bottom of the container and wove into the COCO matt, I could not move them around.

COCO in 3 gallon grow bags is the way I am sticking.

PANHEAD: Your question seems to have some merit I think. But then again, This is my first crop in only COCO.

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you do realize you can flood coco right?

i also have a flood and drain system and i was wondering i have them in 3 or 4 inch pots and the roots are so wrapped around it and i cant transplant if i flower them will they still grow to be big plants or what?? also can one of yall post a pic of ur flood and drain with the coco i wanna see how that looks, im always lookin for better yields


later

The word on the street is that hydro or other non soil methods grow faster, but soil makes the tightest, best smelling and tasting buds.

ya trueeeee that i did my first soil grow and i did not like it i fucked the plant up, hydro seems so much easier to me...

heres my first plant i ever grew in hydro it was atully reallllll dense that nug was like 25gs it was aurora b (flying dutchmen) and everyone i gave to thought it was a soil grown

shamegame said:

The word on the street is that hydro or other non soil methods grow faster, but soil makes the tightest, best smelling and tasting buds.

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until coco came around!

brontobrandon1 said:

ya trueeeee that i did my first soil grow and i did not like it i fucked the plant up, hydro seems so much easier to me...

heres my first plant i ever grew in hydro it was atully reallllll dense that nug was like 25gs it was aurora b (flying dutchmen) and everyone i gave to thought it was a soil grown

Click to expand...

hydro/aero can be easy and faster but takes a lot more experience and knowledge to grow properly. i like hyro because you can fix a bad situation faster than you can with soil, but you have to monitor your nutes so much more if you use inorganic that for a lazy stoner like me it takes too much time which i have little of

i use 300 gallons of mixed nutes a week, i hate wednesdays my flush and mix day, ive never used coco and i think i have 2 stick with rw i got my system down, my next round i will put a couple in coco and grow with my hydro you got me a lil curious now, ill post pics when i start in about 4-5 weeks

LoudBlunts said:

until coco came around!

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Damn that coco coir! Ya I am a soil guy. I admit it. I use caveman-like techniques to grow. I may oneday venture into the world of non-soilponics. The thing that has kept me in soil is the fact that I only do one 4-6 plant indoor grow a year.

u wont regret coco!

LoudBlunts said:

you do realize you can flood coco right?

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LB, yes I totally understand I can Flood & Drain COCO. But then once again I would be going through 50 gallons of NUT soup again, where as now I only go through 10 gallons with the same amount of plants. That is a 20% saveings on NUTS. A lot less messy also. I do not have a flood tray and a 40 gallon rez I have to clean all the time. Just a 10 gallon tub.

From what I have heard, You get all the benefits of soil, useing COCO, with all the ease of Hydro. Best of both woulds. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!!

bronto, you said you use f/d with 3-4 inch pots are you useing rw? if you are you must of mixed your own rw i used 2 mix my own and grow in the 4x4 brown cardboard paper pots, the 4x4 worked just fine for me the roots would grow right out the bottom and because of the size my f/d would feed them faster, ive never put rw in real pots so if your roots are wraped around real pots leave them they just wont get as big, i use 6x6 cubes now its alot easyr