People with higher IQs are less likely to believe in God, according to a new study.

One is based on reason, one is not. Can't tell the difference???

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CrackerJax said:

One is based on reason, one is not. Can't tell the difference???

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No, I can't.......but it seems as if you are right on this one.....without sensible reasoning were would we be today, I still think that was a brave mutha who set out to prove the planet round on popular unsound reasoning (that was stupid), or a couple of brothers trying to fly like birds ( 2 dummies IMO), or...........(ding) sorry gotta split, that was my pizza

Brazko said:

No, I can't.......but it seems as if you are right on this one.....without sensible reasoning were would we be today, I still think that was a brave mutha who set out to prove the planet round on popular unsound reasoning (that was stupid), or a couple of brothers trying to fly like birds ( 2 dummies IMO), or...........(ding) sorry gotta split, that was my pizza

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Not to mention that when the CHURCH was fully in control of people's lives in the past, anyone coming up with a VALID scientific discovery which flew in the face of the church fathers faced death or internment.

Islam is still in that stage....

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I don't understand why non-believers point to the ever changing cultural and historical institution of the church to prove that Jesus is a fraud. When people bring that up, all they are really saying is that the church does not and never has emulated Jesus- which is what just about all (awakened) Christians are saying anyway. People have always and will always come in the name of God and/ or Jesus, and use that as a tool to oppress the uneducated masses. THAT is why we need God; it is because the human race is utterly hopeless... hopeless in the sense that we will never eradicate the greedy, self-serving nature of man (does anyone dispute that this is the nature of man?)

I think that the believers who post on this board do so because of the following:

We expect the entire system of slavery and unfettered capitalism to change during our lifetime. I think even non-believers agree this is a necessary change that is just plain going to happen because of diminishing resources. However, believers know that changing the system WON'T WORK without Jesus coming back and eliminating sin from our midst. Sin is not a list of DO's and DON'Ts- sin is death... sin is simply failing to do the following: A) Love God B) Love your neighbour.

We're just stating our beliefs and informing people what we truly believe will happen. If that makes us dumb, ignorant, sheeple, etc that is OK. We just hope that someone will read our words and decide to love God and love their neighbour. That is what will make a tangible difference in the world- if people walked the walk that Jesus did. Sadly, just as the Bible predicted (yah you guys love when we do this don't ya), so many people are hard hearted and do not believe in love (Mt 24:12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold). This is why movements such as Zeitgeist ain't gonna work... so many people have no love whatsoever... for example when courageous journalists inform us about the world situation, so many people immediately switch off the TV. When I see starving orphans on TV I break down in a heap of tears and pray for them (this doesn't make me better than anyone; I just feel extreme emotions, good and bad while most people appear not to feel much at all). It's sick-- all people really want is to eat their Krispy Kremes, Starbux & McDs while watching porn on their plasma screens... self self self... it really annoys them when they have to think of poverty. The whole starving kids in Africa thing is just old.

I'm losing the plot now... I hope I've made some sort of point.

(footnote: For clarification, the love of both believers and non-believers has gone cold... not throwing stones... it is time for us all to wake up and give a crap about what is going on).

(ps. as if it matters, I have a "high IQ" and am a believer.)

The reason why people doubt Jesus is because they have CAREFULLY read the BIBLE. Try it some time.

It is quite evident that the Bible was written in hindsight. Imagine if Lincoln was the president in 1861 (he was ), he ends slavery in the US....but nothing was written about him while he did it. Nothing is written about him for 70+ years. So 70+ years pass and then ONE guy writes about the end of slavery, but knows NOTHING of Lincoln...never heard of him. Then later anonymous authors plagerize heavily from the first text and start to inject a person named Lincoln into the story of slavery ending. Sounds a little nutty doesn't it...it sure does to me. That is the history of Jesus (myth) in a NUTshell. Don't take my word on it...do some research and it will become clear.

Words are fine, but it is action which truly counts. When you look at what man has done with the words, it is a horrific way to live.

I won't even go into the testaments which are such easy targets.


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CrackerJax said:

The reason why people doubt Jesus is because they have CAREFULLY read the BIBLE. Try it some time.

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Oh I have carefully read the Bible upside down and sideways, and I am familiar with the contents (though some parts are infinitely more interesting than others, and some parts don't make a ton of sense). I hope that non-believers will at least read both sides of the argument when it comes to the allegation that the story of Jesus is an amalgamation of various saviour myths: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html... also http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html. It would seem that one would have to carefully consider the points and counterpoints when it comes to this matter. It is intellectually dishonest not to. I think that people who have not read both sides cannot state anything categorically, while people who have read both sides also cannot state anything categorically... because we were not there... it is the chicken & egg thing.

CrackerJax said:

Words are fine, but it is action which truly counts. When you look at what man has done with the words, it is a horrific way to live.

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Agreed 100%! I have a strong desire to DO something somewhere that will make a difference in the world. I'm talking about working at something like an African fistula clinic or fighting some Cambodian child pornography ring. There are lots of howevers in the mix that make me sad though.... I have 2 kids to think of- age 4 & 7... do I drag them to Africa to save the world?? (maybe, I don't know; other people do it... but I am not sure) Also we have just enough money to get by on (btw we live on 20-50% less than what everyone else around us thinks they need)... we all know the way the world works-- the people at the top have all the real money (power) and they give us each just enough to stay stuck in the system, but not enough to help the people who need the most help. Anyway, I have lots of great ideas but no money. Also, these days aid organizations practically want you to have a PhD in the subject... I don't think it's like it used to be, where you could just show up and say I'm ready to work. Add to this the fact I have a debilitating chronic pain condition; I am not so sure I will be able to personally save the world at this time.

So... maybe someone (believer or non-believer) will read my words and think, YES the world does need LOVE. Maybe that person will put love into action in ways I just can't, for the reasons listed above. Love is just helping people who are not in a position to help themselves.

Until the world's problems are sorted, my IRL mission is not to ram religion down people's throats... it is to help people that I come into contact with relax and not to get so worked up with anxiety and frustration while running on this hamster wheel. I like to point out beauty to people.

I have had profound spiritual experiences that can't really be explained away as coincidence. These experiences (dreams/ visions) are very real to me. Unfortunately, no matter how many times I say "it's true!" people will choose not to believe me, or they will assume I am embellishing, and I will be seen as just another nutter (crazy person). Oh well I think "crazy" people have more fun & they have great sex too.

I would love to find a few hippie stoner Christians to explore ideas with in my area... even to the haters they are preferable to conventional Jesus freaks, no? It actually takes a lot of spiritual sacrifice to show love to conventional hypocritical Jesus freaks (my mom is one)... many of us understand why people hate Christians.

I don't think most people would disavow the notion of Love, just perhaps the best method of achieving it. I for one don't see religion as the answer for achieving that goal. Love begins in the home and spreads outward. While I received a catholic upbringing, my parents in their wisdom informed me early on that they were just stories, much like Dr. Suess and not to be taken literally. This allowed us to focus on the positive stories of the Bible. We also concentrated on the Greek classics which offer the same type of parables, which is not surprising since the Bible is an almalgamation of other previous myths.

I have sympathy for those who have fallen down the rabbit hole of religion. But once in it is difficult to pull them out. In many ways they are lost.


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Well. One would assume any given atheist is quite secular. So having the benefit of not living in a fairy tale reality.... Duh?

One era's religions are the next era's myths & legends.

I don't expect religion to be gone any time soon. It's the easiest thing in the world. It requires no rational, logical, or intelligent thought(IQ).

Weed don't got shit on religion, as far as harmful effects.

You may think I am being offensive. And mocking your god and you along with him/her/it/pasta. But when you understand why you dismiss Zeus, Allah, Yehwah, Vulcan, Mars, Ops, Pluto, Bacchus, Bellona, Flora, Jupiter, Dagur, Gerd, Fenrir, Aesir, Freyr, Odin, Loki, Valkyries, Vidar, Nott, Anat, Baalat, Dagon, Mot, Zedek, Shemesh, Aizen-Myoo, Baku, Butsu, Buddha, Fudo, Gekka-o, Inari, Isora, Horus, Ma Zhu, Tu-Ti, Esus, Borvo, Ambisagrus, Icaunus, Zacharus, Clota, Coventina, Verbeia, Sabrina.... Yes. Even Sabrina! You will then understand why I dismiss your god and all gods.

TeaTreeOil said:

Well. One would assume any given atheist is quite secular. So having the benefit of not living in a fairy tale reality.... Duh?

One era's religions are the next era's myths & legends.

I don't expect religion to be gone any time soon. It's the easiest thing in the world. It requires no rational, logical, or intelligent thought(IQ).

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Aetheism can be acheived just as easily.

Just depends who it is indoctrinating you.

Indeed, atheism is just as easy. We're all born that way.

TeaTreeOil said:

Indeed, atheism is just as easy. We're all born that way.

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Actually I was born to Wonder and Question....

I call that Agnosticism

I thought agnosticism was based on ignorance, no offense.

Isn't it basically saying, "I do not have enough information to make a valid decision."? Or, "I don't know."? Or, "I'm ignorant of the truth."?

TeaTreeOil said:

I thought agnosticism was based on ignorance, no offense.

Isn't it basically saying, "I do not have enough information to make a valid decision."? Or, "I don't know."? Or, "I'm ignorant of the truth."?

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Thats one way to put it.

But then we're all ignorant.

And anyone who pretends to KNOW is even more ignorant...

What is the TRUTH?

There's his famous circular logic on display again

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Circular Logic.... mind if I steal that one.

It amazing how many things at first appear linear or flat but later turn out to be circular.

Thanks for the compliment

All gods we know of were created by men. I consider that to be a truth. I was born into an LDS family. I realized I wasn't a theist at the age of 5. I realized I was an atheist, and what atheism was, much later. I currently consider myself a secular humanist. I really don't like the two-faced people religion creates. Part of me believes religions promote evil. All of the most 'evil' events in history are tied deeply to religions. Most prisoners are believers, disproportionately so.

It's kind of like the chicken and the egg and which one came first. Intelligent design could support the notion the chicken came first. Reality, and scientific research shows the egg came first. That another animal's offspring(egg) mutated(evolved) into a chicken.

Which do you think came first? Man or Man's gods? They're not the gods of monkies, chimpanzees, dogs, cats, or any other animals. I don't see them reading the bible, being baptized, worshipping idols(well I think my dogs worship me... but I am their leader and feed them and take care of them), etc.

And if I have a soul, and I'm not saying I do, then I would say my dog does, every animal, and all lifeforms(plants, bacteria, viruses, etc).

I can come to terms with some new agers, actually. That the soul is the measurable electrochemical energy.

Perhaps if people focused more on physical reality instead of spirituality... our planet wouldn't be so fucked up.

But the guy in the sky? Heaven/hell? Eternal something for finite something. That's an uneven deal no matter how you slice it. I figured that out when I was 5. Why? I could never get satisfying answers to most of my questions.

If you understood its meaning, you would not take it as a compliment. Crack a book sometime and be amazed.

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TeaTreeOil said:

All gods we know of were created by men. I consider that to be a truth. I was born into an LDS family. I realized I wasn't a theist at the age of 5. I realized I was an atheist, and what atheism was, much later. I currently consider myself a secular humanist. I really don't like the two-faced people religion creates. Part of me believes religions promote evil. All of the most 'evil' events in history are tied deeply to religions. Most prisoners are believers, disproportionately so.

It's kind of like the chicken and the egg and which one came first. Intelligent design could support the notion the chicken came first. Reality, and scientific research shows the egg came first. That another animal's offspring(egg) mutated(evolved) into a chicken.

Which do you think came first? Man or Man's gods? They're not the gods of monkies, chimpanzees, dogs, cats, or any other animals. I don't see them reading the bible, being baptized, worshipping idols(well I think my dogs worship me... but I am their leader and feed them and take care of them), etc.

And if I have a soul, and I'm not saying I do, then I would say my dog does, every animal, and all lifeforms(plants, bacteria, viruses, etc).

I can come to terms with some new agers, actually. That the soul is the measurable electrochemical energy.

Perhaps if people focused more on physical reality instead of spirituality... our planet wouldn't be so fucked up.

But the guy in the sky? Heaven/hell? Eternal something for finite something. That's an uneven deal no matter how you slice it. I figured that out when I was 5. Why? I could never get satisfying answers to most of my questions.

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can you please support that comment with evidence? the problem with the theory of evolution is that it looks good on paper but when it comes down to it they cannot find a single missing link between ANY species to support it..

What missing link? If it's missing it must have went extinct? The links are found between living animals, and fossils. A missing link... what would that be, exactly, to you?

Have you not realized that isolated locations produce animals exclusive to them that are often genetically similar?

Say you have two continents that were once joined but are now not. If you compare animals from the era when they were still joined, you'll see common ancestry to present day animals and fossils between that era and present. Though the isolated regions now have completely unique animals to them.

This is most evident with all of the continents and most remote islands. Haven't you ever seen Animal Planet?

Like, for instance, Dinosaurs. 65 million years ago, right? We have around 7000 years of recorded history. That's about .01%. We've been studying this stuff with vigor for how long as a species? We have much to learn.

Fossils are rare, it takes very precise conditions for preservation. Life feeds on life, and bacteria, fungi, etc. will rot any organic matter given most conditions.