ph an soil

Nullis

Moderator
your soil is buffered... i would stil ph your water but its not as critical as if you where in water. but yes you will see a build up or a def.
Who are you referring to exactly, who will see a build up or def and why?

It is indubitably confusing for new growers when they come here and scan posts for advice or methods or whatever, only to find it is mostly conflicting or even somewhat dubious. One can only be filled in so much about things like basic soil concepts\plant sciences, personal growing conditions & preferences, etc. in a single post. Rarely are significant positive results reproducible based per se upon any internet post alone.

All I can do here is try to reassure those first attempting to grow in soil\soil-less, especially with organic dry\liquid fertilizers, that using pH Up or Down to try to make your fertigation\irrigation solutions a perfect 6.5 or whatever is totally unnecessary. I mention the Down, but we all know that pH Up is the real culprit and both truly are marketed for hydroponics...definitely not soil! General Hydroponics pH UP is a very strong base (and a trade secret); it says on the product website it contains potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate (and blue dye). While the MSDS says potassium carbonate and potassium silicate, with a pH between 12 and 12.3. The label itself says to "use sparingly".

However, the General Organics line, which was designed for soil\soil-less organics states right on it that adjusting the pH is not necessary: http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GO-Feedchart.pdf
Earth Juice is basically the same story, despite that it is initially quite a bit more acidic (like 4.0 acidic), check out #12: http://www.hydro-organics.com/home/index.php?categoryID=556

Dolomite\calcite\pulverized oyster\eggshell are good supplements, not just because they help neutralize acidity, but also because they supply calcium. Dolomite is also mostly calcium carbonate, but it should have at least 6% magnesium content as well. Calcium and magnesium are needed by both the cannabis plant and microbes in the soil. Having just a bit more dolomite in your mix will help that initial drop in pH caused by mixing Earth Juice as is- and this is sustained each watering. According to the manufacturers info this drop is "primarily due to the natural phyto-acids and amino-acids contained in many of the Earth Juice formulas. These are considered "Weak" acids that will help transport (chelate) nutrients for easy and rapid use by the soil microbes and plants. Earth Juice will adjust and be conditioned by medium and beneficial microbes supported by the applications of Earth Juice."

The other better alternative is to aerate the fertigation solution for about 24 hours before using (or go the extra step of adding compost\humus for a real AACT). This will do a few things including increase microbial populations within the solution, conditioning nutrients for plant use and raising the pH of the solution (bacteria produce alkaline bio-slime). And with that, there is undoubtedly no need to be fussing with or obsessing over pH thinking you know what is best for the plant.

A keyword in that quote from the manufacturer info is "chelate". A chelate is a compound that forms a loose complex with a ligand such as a mineral ion, and in this case improves its availability to and transport within plants. Organic acids, in particular humic acids, play this [important] role in nature to allow plants to absorb nutrient ions it would not have had direct access too (iron in particular). This is largely why plants grow virtually everywhere on Earth, in all kinds of soils across various pH ranges (Blueberries 'prefer' it between 4 and 5!).

Hydroponics nutrients have replaced micro-biological assistance and organic acids with synthetic chelating agents, in particular EDTA.
 

Jollyjoe

Member
The only way to really find out is to just put water in and not PH it and see if you get nute lock. Then you will know your answer. Then there will be no fighting
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
The only way to really find out is to just put water in and not PH it and see if you get nute lock. Then you will know your answer. Then there will be no fighting
this is what nullis and I are saying...we've done it learned from experience, found the knowledge as to why and are sharing...I have not even owned pH up or down for years and my pH pen I use exclusively for my hot tub now
 

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
Adding dolomite lime is that LAST thing you want to do!!!

Lime is great for neutralizing acidic soil, but it does exactly that. Neutralizes acidic soil.

Lime will fix your pH levels to 7.0, it's just how it chemically works. Calcium carbonate will absorb all H+ ions that it is capable of!

The reasons you don't want to do this....

a) Seedlings actually prefer slightly acidic soil (6.5-6.8)

b) Flowering plants prefer acidic soil (6.0)

Check out how nutrients absorb related to soil pH. Look at what you do to your Phosphorous absorption once you hit levels above 6.7!!!!

View attachment 2530717

Contrary to popular belief, Phosphorous (P), is essential for seedlings just as it is for flowering plants. P is used in the development of your root system, which is arguably just as important as the development of your plant.

In short....7.0 pH for cannabis = Not optimal
Your joking right?
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Wow. Alright, this is why I typically only stick to the Organics forum. There is really no salt build-up to speak of in a healthy organic soil.



If starting seeds or planting clones into a bagged mix, dolomite can wait until the next transplants. But there is still no need to pH, whatsoever, if you grow organically. If you use Earth Juice, General Organics or RO you shouldn't be using pH Up drops or whatever and I know for a fact that in the case of Earth Juice and General Organics, the manufacturer explicitly states on the feeding charts and product guides that this is NOT necessary.

Even with Earth Juice, but let me tell you that if you're using Earth Juice and bottled\rain\filtered water you probably need more than 1 tbsp per gallon of dolomite lime. Micronized dolomite limestone is preferable, this refers to the particle size. It doesn't take any time to work; pelletized lime or crushed oyster shell would take some time, but it would also last longer. That is why some people use both. I just use micronized dolomite and Azomite.

I used to check the run-off but don't even do that anymore. I know that everything is absolutely fine. I can't tell you why it didn't work for you, anybody can mix together stuff like Ocean Forest and SAM#4 or coco coir, humus and another 1.5 tbsp of dolomite. Then water. Microbes and plant take care of the rest. The exception is perhaps if your tap water has exceptionally high total dissolved solids and pH due to dissolved minerals (like calcium carbonate).
my tap at 700-800 ppm is why I have an ro filter and use ro water...also do not have to worry about alkalinity that way either....and my mix is promix hp amended with 1 cup per cu ft dolomite lime, 1 cup diatomaceous earth and 1/12 cup azomite...I also use synthetic ferts, Dynagro mostly with a lil Jacks Acid Special here n there to feed the pH swing and cal mag plus due to ro as well as liquid karma for the humic/fulvic and hormones...you know fake earth in a bottle...lol..I grow lotsa long flowering sats as they are the high I seek and I do run lots of water through before I feed but not due to salt build up but for the growth spurt and all is well...never a lockout nor build up...its very very simple chemistry is all it is
 

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
Go right ahead and believe that pouring 7.2ph into 6.2ph medium won't change it in the 3-6months of a grow im not gonna argue with stupid.
2 tablespoons(heaping)of dolomite lime per gallon of medium. Getting watered with 7.8pH/280-300 ppm water for 6 weeks no worries. Just like in another 6-8 weeks until harvest there will be no worries or lockout. Nullis, Puff and Kite are right on the money and the ones I would be listening to. The rest pretty much are just spewing forum crap because they lack practical experience and can only share what they have read.


 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
6 months of a grow.. lol ....what grow would that be exactly? Nev's haze vegged for 2 months.. i think i'll pass on your oppinion and listen to people who know what they're talkin about instead.I don't even need you try and validate your arguement ,if Biobizz state on their website that the soil and feed do not need to be ph'd because the soil does it itself then thats all i need to know.Go ahead and believe you know what your talking about.I couldnt care less if you don't want to accept it.
umm not nit picking nor taking away from your point but I have FLOWERED for right at 6 months before..thai/vietnamaese cross...very good it was...lol
 

puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
umm not nit picking nor taking away from your point but I have FLOWERED for right at 6 months before..thai/vietnamaese cross...very good it was...lol

Damn man...damn

That would have to be rare enough though,someone growing out a 6 month flowerer..

I would love to get hold of some real jamaican lambsbread.. i think that would be worth that sort of wait..
 

TooRare2Die

Active Member
Man im so confused can you give me your opinion on as to why my roots organics 707 soil PH tested 4.0 after watering in the run off when water tested 7 before they got it? 2 weeks ive had them from clone and theyve had nothing but water? also this happened..>>>>>20130529_103357 (2).jpg not sure why the tip is brown few people told me to throw some nutes in my veg cycle which didnt want to do but am sure it is looking like a good idea now.. can you give me any advice on this stuff??
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
Why does watering with 6.5 ph water to keep the ph at 6.5 ph sound like a load of crap to you?
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
And also, after adding the biobizz grow and bloom the ph of the water always drops to 5.5
Depends where your water ph starts off. After adding 'bloom' and 'grow' at 2ml per litre my water is at 7.1ph - I add ph down to take it down to 6.5ph.
 

branbran420

Well-Known Member
I dont know what puffadicks problem is but I didnt ph my stuff this go around and my yield was almost on par of last my last grow..The only problem was they were in 5 gal pots instead of 2 gal, and had 2 weeks longer veg time. Nothing else was changed from the first grow to the second grow. So from my experience ph'n the water did help. And I was using 50/50 FFOF and roots 707 for both grows with Age Old for nutes.
 
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