PH down killing my harvest?

B

bigbubba227

Active Member
i was told today that my PH down is killing my bacteria that breaks down my organic fert. is there any truth to this or was the guy full of shit?. im using the gobox my general hydro in promix. my water PH is around 8.0 when it goes in haven't checked the exit. but he said im killing all the things that break down the organic fert. and this is why my harvest is suffer. any thoughts on this would be super. and if this is true should i just water with plain R/O water with no PH down?
 
DeeTee

DeeTee

Well-Known Member
Isn't 8.0 ph kinda high for mj ? I'm assuming promix is soil ? I seriously doubt that ph down is the problem, it's not used in high enough quantity.
 
U

unkn0wnentity

Member
You should get out of the habit of actively PHing everything. It's best to limestone the soil prior to planting. The limestone will keep the soil chemistry's PH balanced even over months of putting organics in it. You can email Fox Farm, they took the time to break the soil chemistry down and their R&D process.

Even the nutrients (Bio Flores) tells me to never PH the feeding solution even if it reads low.

Plus that PH Up/Down puts a lot of junk in the soil and trust me its going to make things worse. Those build ups will put the soils chemistry out of control over time. It's best to treat the soil so the PH is fixed.
 
M

mattymoo420

Member
Yeah I'm in the same situation, I've been pH down and can tell its not right, I have a auto purple going in the 12/12 tent and its thriving because its just the soil and the nuitrents. No pH down. It's not organic, it's acid, more fore use in hydro I surpose. I've mid flushed and hoping it will clear up, think about the dolomite lime. I was going to do a top up on soil, about 1L between 3 pots, could I add a teaspoon to the mixture and water?
 
B

blueJ

Active Member
Don't ph the GO line, use their camg if you're using RO water, or better yet add some dol. lime, gypsum n limestone to your soil beforehand and don't need bottled camg
 
Vindicated

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
OP, you didn't mention your setup. When I think of organics, I think growing out back in the garden without pesticides, using lots of composted soil, and barely fertilizing at all. Any fertilizer that is done is environmentally friendly and sustainable. However the goal is to get away from fertilizers as much as possible. Instead you try to rely on crop rotation, cover crops, and green manures (kelp meal, alfalfa meal, etc). The more potting soil you have the more organic matter is in the garden. That organic matter, also known as humus, acts like a buffer allowing the plants to thrive in a huge pH range that you just can't do when using synthetics.

Here's the thing.... I see a lot of people that come here with hydroponic setups. They'll put seeds and clones in rockwool cubes then put those in a container filled with hydrocorn, place it in a hut indoors under HPS ligthing and they'll feed their plants a 3-part nutrient solution and think their actually growing organically because the bottle said the word organic on it. HAH! Yeah try that with carrots or tomatoes and see if your garden can pass the USDA Certified Organic standards.

No disrespect to Hydroponics as a way of growing. I applaud hydro growers because they often use less water and pesticides then anyone else, but as a matter of fact, it's simply not organic. In fact it's the exact opposite of organic. The whole point of hydro is to give mother nature the middle finger and say you don't know what's best for my plants. I do, because I have ultra refined nutrients and I'm able to give my plants the exact ratio of NPK and micro nutrients they need in the pH I specify. Everything is controlled. Even the CO2 levels and temperatures in some cases. Organics is not like this. Organics is all about feeding the soil lots of organic matter and trusting that mother nature knows best.

So if you have a hydro (even if your feeding "organic nutrients") go ahead and pH and continue to do what other hydro growers tell you to do. But if your growing organically in soil using organic matter as your fertilizer, then don't bother to pH. Look at your soil blend carefully. Make sure your using well composted material and give it time to break down. If you think you killed the microbes, just reintroduce them back. Plenty of sites sell beneficial bacteria inoculants. Just stay away from the products aimed at cannabis growers because they're usually over priced and mixed with other stuff that you don't really need (e.g. Great White).
 
scroglodyte

scroglodyte

Well-Known Member
lol.......how do your plants look? shoot us some pics? and.........you can ph your water with cider vinegar.
 
Villa

Villa

Active Member
Feeding your soil and letting the soil feed your plants is what I try to achieve. Composting I have found is instremental to organics. Compost is living, breathing, plant goodness. Having access to horse,cow,chicken,and bunny manure is golden and I supplement my compost with seaweed all my vegatable wastes, egg shells, coffee grounds, shredded up root balls, shellfish and sea crustation waste. Maybe I need to get a life if I get so damn excited about a compost pile lol.
 
B

bigbubba227

Active Member
just got my computer back from the shop. ill try and post some pics in a bit lights not on yet, but they look horrid im fighting a horriable mite problem. but i about got that under controle now. but ill post some pics in a bit
 
Senseimilla

Senseimilla

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna go against everyone else in here so far. I'm organic soil and I pH my water always. Not doing so is just asking for minor plant stresses. Even if your soil has the proper amounts of lime in it to balance, your plants are still going to be happier if the water going in is the right pH. There is no reason to use synthetic pH adjusters for this. First of all, there is no reason to ever use a pH down, even an organic version. Horticultural molasses is very acidic, and it takes VERY small quantities to adjust ph to the proper amount (as in drops of it usually) -- helps feed the microbes and in the quantities used for pH'ing, would not cause any soil issues over time. For up if needed I go EJ natural up. Does not kill soil microbes.

As for 'trusting' mother nature, gotta disagree there. Mother nature is fine with culling your plants. Mother nature does what she does and does not care -- her goal is NOT to produce the best quality buds for a human. That is YOUR goal and you have to HELP mother nature do it -- to expect mother nature to do it all and get the goal you want is crazy. If/when you get your perfect soil blend going and have a trusted water source that won't cause issues, then of course you don't need to pH... but until you do, pH each and every time you water and your plants will be a lot happier for it. pH 8 water will KILL cannabis over time if the pH is not balanced properly by some means.
 
ru4r34l

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
Vindicated said:
OP, you didn't mention your setup. When I think of organics, I think growing out back in the garden without pesticides, using lots of composted soil, and barely fertilizing at all. Any fertilizer that is done is environmentally friendly and sustainable. However the goal is to get away from fertilizers as much as possible. Instead you try to rely on crop rotation, cover crops, and green manures (kelp meal, alfalfa meal, etc). The more potting soil you have the more organic matter is in the garden. That organic matter, also known as humus, acts like a buffer allowing the plants to thrive in a huge pH range that you just can't do when using synthetics.

Here's the thing.... I see a lot of people that come here with hydroponic setups. They'll put seeds and clones in rockwool cubes then put those in a container filled with hydrocorn, place it in a hut indoors under HPS ligthing and they'll feed their plants a 3-part nutrient solution and think their actually growing organically because the bottle said the word organic on it. HAH! Yeah try that with carrots or tomatoes and see if your garden can pass the USDA Certified Organic standards.

No disrespect to Hydroponics as a way of growing. I applaud hydro growers because they often use less water and pesticides then anyone else, but as a matter of fact, it's simply not organic. In fact it's the exact opposite of organic. The whole point of hydro is to give mother nature the middle finger and say you don't know what's best for my plants. I do, because I have ultra refined nutrients and I'm able to give my plants the exact ratio of NPK and micro nutrients they need in the pH I specify. Everything is controlled. Even the CO2 levels and temperatures in some cases. Organics is not like this. Organics is all about feeding the soil lots of organic matter and trusting that mother nature knows best.

So if you have a hydro (even if your feeding "organic nutrients") go ahead and pH and continue to do what other hydro growers tell you to do. But if your growing organically in soil using organic matter as your fertilizer, then don't bother to pH. Look at your soil blend carefully. Make sure your using well composted material and give it time to break down. If you think you killed the microbes, just reintroduce them back. Plenty of sites sell beneficial bacteria inoculants. Just stay away from the products aimed at cannabis growers because they're usually over priced and mixed with other stuff that you don't really need (e.g. Great White).
Click to expand...
It's funny how you mention this (highlighted above in red), but many USA agriculture providers who claim 100% Organic really are not, most professional farmers cannot completely meet the guidelines set out by NOP, If you read the NOP Title 7 Subpart C 205.102 there are 9 requirements specified to be met for a producer to label there crop or livestock 'Organic'.

But here's also a little tidbit that can be used to claim 'Organic'

(a) Exemptions. (1) A production or handling operation that sells agricultural products as “organic” but whose gross agricultural income from organic sales totals $5,000 or less annually is exempt from certification.

So if you sell less than 5k worth of bud this year, grow the shit in acid and call it 'Organic'. :lol:

regards,
 
Dice Clay

Dice Clay

Active Member
Vindicated said:
OP, you didn't mention your setup. When I think of organics, I think growing out back in the garden without pesticides, using lots of composted soil, and barely fertilizing at all. Any fertilizer that is done is environmentally friendly and sustainable. However the goal is to get away from fertilizers as much as possible. Instead you try to rely on crop rotation, cover crops, and green manures (kelp meal, alfalfa meal, etc). The more potting soil you have the more organic matter is in the garden. That organic matter, also known as humus, acts like a buffer allowing the plants to thrive in a huge pH range that you just can't do when using synthetics.

Here's the thing.... I see a lot of people that come here with hydroponic setups. They'll put seeds and clones in rockwool cubes then put those in a container filled with hydrocorn, place it in a hut indoors under HPS ligthing and they'll feed their plants a 3-part nutrient solution and think their actually growing organically because the bottle said the word organic on it. HAH! Yeah try that with carrots or tomatoes and see if your garden can pass the USDA Certified Organic standards.

No disrespect to Hydroponics as a way of growing. I applaud hydro growers because they often use less water and pesticides then anyone else, but as a matter of fact, it's simply not organic. In fact it's the exact opposite of organic. The whole point of hydro is to give mother nature the middle finger and say you don't know what's best for my plants. I do, because I have ultra refined nutrients and I'm able to give my plants the exact ratio of NPK and micro nutrients they need in the pH I specify. Everything is controlled. Even the CO2 levels and temperatures in some cases. Organics is not like this. Organics is all about feeding the soil lots of organic matter and trusting that mother nature knows best.

So if you have a hydro (even if your feeding "organic nutrients") go ahead and pH and continue to do what other hydro growers tell you to do. But if your growing organically in soil using organic matter as your fertilizer, then don't bother to pH. Look at your soil blend carefully. Make sure your using well composted material and give it time to break down. If you think you killed the microbes, just reintroduce them back. Plenty of sites sell beneficial bacteria inoculants. Just stay away from the products aimed at cannabis growers because they're usually over priced and mixed with other stuff that you don't really need (e.g. Great White).
Click to expand...


sorry to burst you guys's bubble but as someone who works for one of the country's biggest and oldest organic certifying bodies, I have to disagree and float some knowledge your way. Organic (certify-ability) starts with organic SEED... with no certified organic seed there is no way anything can be labeled organic. That being said, one can grow using organic methods, but it is improper to label the cannabis organic. The use of any means of control other than natural ie. using pure neem oil and ladybugs, instead of pyrethrum to control spider mites, will disqualify that plant and any propagated plants from it (clones, seeds) will be tainted and never be able to be organic. It is the same with livestock. The second you give the cattle ANY form of anti-biotic, it ceases to be organic, and can never return. Once organic stock has been tainted in any way, it and it's offspring are never going to meet the laid out standards for organic .
 
WhiteRooster

WhiteRooster

Active Member
I have been using Sensizym as a pH down it is somewhat organic and it helps break down organic material faster so that plants can absorb nutrients better. Or you could use Hygrozyme which is certified organic by OMRI.
 
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