PH fluctuating to much =(

bongmarley7 · Nov 28, 2012

alright. novemeber 26th i mixed up my hydro nutes in a 55gal res.When the ebb flow ran the ppm was 630 and the ph was 5.2 so i added 50ml of PH up and it brought it to 5.6....in the morning i woke up and the ppm was at 590 and the ph was at 6.4, (I added 50ml of ph down and it brought it to 5.

THIS MORNING i go in

and the ppm is at 780 and ph was at 7.1!!!!! I added MORE ml of ph down and it brought the ph 6.7.....

I dont know why its fluctuating so much. I use all roots organic nutes and understand that may be why because theirs no way to measure the EXACT NPK of organic notes but should i just keep using PH down to stabalize the the res? am i using tooo much PH? or should i mix my nutes....

303 · Nov 28, 2012

bongmarley7 said:
View attachment 2423063alright. novemeber 26th i mixed up my hydro nutes in a 55gal res.When the ebb flow ran the ppm was 630 and the ph was 5.2 so i added 50ml of PH up and it brought it to 5.6....in the morning i woke up and the ppm was at 590 and the ph was at 6.4, (I added 50ml of ph down and it brought it to 5. THIS MORNING i go in View attachment 2423062and the ppm is at 780 and ph was at 7.1!!!!! I added MORE ml of ph down and it brought the ph 6.7.....

I dont know why its fluctuating so much. I use all roots organic nutes and understand that may be why because theirs no way to measure the EXACT NPK of organic notes but should i just keep using PH down to stabalize the the res? am i using tooo much PH? or should i mix my nutes....

What stage are your plants? What are you feeding them? They clearly are rejecting what you are giving them. What method are you using? Flood? When the ph goes up, they are eating nutrients, but if the ppm is going up as well and not down they are taking in more water than nutrients. This could happen if your in veg and giving too much p or k, its taken most all the N and water, but rejecting the p and k increasing your ppms. Also, 79 degrees is borderline too hot, hows your roots?

brainwash · Nov 28, 2012

same here , , but mine goes up to 7.0 and down to 4.0 . hope any of the pros jump in 2 help soon.

am using :NFT hydro.

nuts : probiotech : micro , grow , bloom .

i was wondering , the brown or orange things (i dnt know the name of it ) could they effect the ph anyhow ?

bongmarley7 · Nov 28, 2012

303 said:
What stage are your plants? What are you feeding them? They clearly are rejecting what you are giving them. What method are you using? Flood? When the ph goes up, they are eating nutrients, but if the ppm is going up as well and not down they are taking in more water than nutrients. This could happen if your in veg and giving too much p or k, its taken most all the N and water, but rejecting the p and k increasing your ppms. Also, 79 degrees is borderline too hot, hows your roots?

i use roots organic master feeding schedule with some mods. first res mix first week (nov26th i fed buddha grow,buddha bloom, trinity, ancient amber, HP2, sensical bloom, humid,greatwhite, superthrive and then yesterday i added the budblood I took my clones which have a HEALTHY root system

and transplanted them the 26th

into immediate 12/12 they have vegged been rooting for 5 weeks. I am doing a SOG so i want to keep them short and tight. I added BudBlod yesterday so i now that couldve cause the ppm to raise roughly 150-200 but this morning wouldve been a solid 12 hours......So your saying its ok that the ph rises (i should NOT re-ph down it again?) the leaves look like they have turned a lighter green, maybe a N diff. like your saying? i really dont think the ppm is too high @650.....also i am using a titan flow and grow system. Flood every 6 hours for 15 minutes....Thanks for your time and advice 303

303 · Nov 28, 2012

brainwash said:
same here , , but mine goes up to 7.0 and down to 4.0 . hope any of the pros jump in 2 help soon.

am using :NFT hydro.

nuts : probiotech : micro , grow , bloom .

i was wondering , the brown or orange things (i dnt know the name of it ) could they effect the ph anyhow ?

7.0 to 4.0? Shouldn't you be starting at about 5.8-6.3ish instead of 7.0? Brown or orange things? What???

bongmarley7 · Nov 28, 2012

i forgot to mention, that the ph fluctuates with my res that i feed my plants that are in soil but i never stress about it because i know the ph changes overtime through the soil and my run off is consistent at 6-6.6 BUT also i always dilute my res with more water over the course of the week.....and with hyfro.....you cant do that...unless you have an evaporation issue....i will try and see if cant cool down the res with some ice blocks......since i dont have a chiller do you think it would be safe to drop the temp right before it floods? i could always go buy ice blocks......

303 · Nov 28, 2012

bongmarley7 said:
i use roots organic master feeding schedule with some mods. first res mix first week (nov26th i fed buddha grow,buddha bloom, trinity, ancient amber, HP2, sensical bloom, humid,greatwhite, superthrive and then yesterday i added the budblood I took my clones which have a HEALTHY root systemView attachment 2423095 and transplanted them the 26th View attachment 2423100 into immediate 12/12 they have vegged been rooting for 5 weeks. I am doing a SOG so i want to keep them short and tight. I added BudBlod yesterday so i now that couldve cause the ppm to raise roughly 150-200 but this morning wouldve been a solid 12 hours......So your saying its ok that the ph rises (i should NOT re-ph down it again?) the leaves look like they have turned a lighter green, maybe a N diff. like your saying? i really dont think the ppm is too high @650.....also i am using a titan flow and grow system. Flood every 6 hours for 15 minutes....Thanks for your time and advice 303

IMO too many bloom nutrients, your plants, even though on a 12/12 light schedule still need more N than P or K. They are still growing (needing N), you don't want to start cranking on the bloom nutrients until after the stretch. Forget the charts and read the plant. Like for instance, I am on the general hydro's 3 part line. I keep it simple, when I start listening to the guy at the grow store and adding all this booster shit I fail. SO KISS method has worked well for me. I started flowering Nov 18th, I changed my res on Sunday the 25th and fed as far as the chart goes "Aggressive growth", and I will continue the heavy nitrogen enriched feed until I see the little hairs start to form, then goes to "transition", where they get equal parts micro, grow, bloom. After the stretch maybe 2 weeks from now I begin "early bloom". If I followed the chart I'd be all off whack, like I said you feed according to what the plant needs. And I think yours needs a more nitrogen focused feed. Everyone can have their own opinion but that's what I've learned from exp.. :peace:

303 · Nov 28, 2012

bongmarley7 said:
i forgot to mention, that the ph fluctuates with my res that i feed my plants that are in soil but i never stress about it because i know the ph changes overtime through the soil and my run off is consistent at 6-6.6 BUT also i always dilute my res with more water over the course of the week.....and with hyfro.....you cant do that...unless you have an evaporation issue....i will try and see if cant cool down the res with some ice blocks......since i dont have a chiller do you think it would be safe to drop the temp right before it floods? i could always go buy ice blocks......

absolutely! ideally you want a nice 65-70degrees.. Freeze a case of bottled water..

303 · Nov 28, 2012

Also.. I have to ask. I recently purchased budda grow and trinity for my soil mothers. I add 15ml per gallon of each and my ph comes out to 4.3ish from 7.0? Does this happen to you? I found it bizzare and tossed the shit, my soil moms be feeding off of general hydroponics and they love it lol. I also forgot to ask if you have had a run before using roots organic? I've heard many time using organics in hydro is a fight against infection, is this true?

bongmarley7 · Nov 28, 2012

Yes, roots drops the ph pretty significantly. but that what iim saying it fluctuates because the NPK isnt EXACT due to the live organisms that are with. but a good airstone should give it a good mix. i wait about 2 hours befoee i ph up and feed .

Ive never used roots for a HYDRO setup but i have used it for 2 harvest for soil and has turned out great....i send you a personal message if i experience any infection, i certainly hope not though!

outlander1 · Nov 28, 2012

Your temperature is the issue, 79 Degrees!?
I've seen nasty nasty things grow overnight in a res with a temperature above 75. Since your ph is shooting up, I think you may have a pathogen issue. Normally I would suggest H202, however you are using organics. Search around the forum, I have read in the past people using beneficial tea's with great success.
Try to get a high powered 3-4 inch square fan, and attach it to your res. Usually people position to blow along the water and out the other end, however you can also use it to suck out air from the top. I've seen a few degree's change using this method and every little bit helps.

cc08150 · Nov 28, 2012

Rez temperature is too hot and overuse of pH up and down.....start over with fresh water and nutrients in your rez.

303 · Nov 28, 2012

outlander1 said:
Your temperature is the issue, 79 Degrees!?
I've seen nasty nasty things grow overnight in a res with a temperature above 75. Since your ph is shooting up, I think you may have a pathogen issue. Normally I would suggest H202, however you are using organics. Search around the forum, I have read in the past people using beneficial tea's with great success.
Try to get a high powered 3-4 inch square fan, and attach it to your res. Usually people position to blow along the water and out the other end, however you can also use it to suck out air from the top. I've seen a few degree's change using this method and every little bit helps.

Agreed, possible pathogen. I really believe in no bacteria in my feed. I actually use pythoff with the simple 3 part GH feed. Keeps them clean, h2o2 is nasty. If you've read anything from fatman on this issue I agree with him, the best part about hydro is a bacteria free system. I'm trying to find the post and paste the quote

303 · Nov 28, 2012

fatman7574 said:
No chlorine or Hydrogen peroxide is used with chemical nutrients. Hygrozyme is used with organic nutrients. With organic nutrients solutions you need bacteria and enzymes to break down the organic susbstances into readily uptakable nutrients. With a chemical nutrients system you try to maintain a bacteria and enzyme free nutrient solutiom. All the chemical fertilizers are already in a form that they can be easily taken up by the plant roots. Except for the metalic trace elements and the chelates provided with the chelated iron make them readily usable by the plants.

Hydgrozyme is supposed to compete with the pythium and bacteria causing root rot to rapidly spread, it is claimed they get more of the food (dying roots) before the bacteria thereby stopping the bacteria from multiplying. That is not true, they are ust some selected bacteria that are able to compete with the bacteria thereby slowing the root rot and pythium. They are bacteria and enzymes from South America that will live through the heat created when chicken manure is composted so they live while the other bacteria and enzymes are destroyed. The chicken manure piles are innoculatted with the bacteria early during the composting. However the other bacteria that are destroyed from heat during composting are air borne and quickly reestablish themselves in the compost so they are also present in the hygrozyme when you buy it. The Hygrozyme is the liquid that leaches from compost after watering the piles after the compost has cooled down (finished composting). The bacteria once killed off are also airbornes so establish them selves in your reservoir wiyth in days if there is not something their to kill them.

Chlorine actually kills the bacteria and pythium. It also kills enzymes. It does not kill enzymes living within the plants or its roots.Hydgrozyme is really made for organic nutrients and soil grows. While you can use it with chemical nutrients you are turning a near sterile and clean nutrient/growing system back into a bacterial/enzyme/pathogen laden system. Sort a step backward. One of the huge advantages of a hydroponic system is eliminating the presence of bacteria and enzynes by using nutrients that prevent their need. Hydroponic chemical nutrients preclude the need for bacteria or enzymes for nutrient uptake availability. Chlorine then prevents the growth or even the presence of nearly all bacteria/pathogens. Hygrozyme creates conditions supportive of bacteria and pathogens. It is sorta like adding the bacteria needed to process waste in a waste water (sewage) treatment plant to a drinking water treatment plant. IE a step backward or a step in the wrong direction. In a waste water treatment plant you need loads of bacteria to break down organic nutrients just as in an organic nutrient reservoir. In a drinking water plant all the organic nutrients were broken down before they entered the drinking water treament plant (as in a chemical nutrient reservoir) therefore a disinfectant (chlorine) is used to kill nearly al (99% to 99.9%) of all bacteria present as most bacteria are harmful rather than helpful. Hygrozyme is reputed to contain "0NE" helpful bacteria but it's use encourages conditions supportive of many non helpful bacteria and pathogens. This basically means unless you plan to empty and clean your reservoir very often and flush the sytem with H2O2 or chlorine to kill all bacteria, enzymes and pathogens to get rid of all the non beneficial ones, then you are providing a very bacterial, and pathogen laden sytem for the plants roots to deal. This mans you are expecting a "beneficial bacteria" to actually grow faster then them and take a larger proportion of the food available and therfore keep the "bad bacteria and pathogens" at low levels. Not gonna happen. Last I heard the hygrozyme people even quit adding the beneficial bacteria and are now just selling straight chicken manure water leachings. IE an organic fertilizer.

This is the post that breaks it down on organic nutrients in a hydroponic system. This is kinda off subject, but with 79 degree water your going to deal with problems...

Krondizzel · Nov 28, 2012

Actually. I see a problem right off the bat. Your trying to ph balance your entire system. Here is what I can share with you.

If you add concentrated nutrients without mixing them into water first, and then adding them to your rez, you'll have random PH fluctuations.

If you run a feed cycle, ex: nutes/water only/nutes/water only. Stop that. I was correcting my falling PH with water only. I constantly had PH changes until I started adding PH corrected water.

Today was the first day that I woke up and my PH wasn't bonkers. I have been consistently doing my PH changes by making up a new batch of nutes. If my rez says 5.6, I'll make a 4 gallon batch of tea at 5.9, and I'll watch it slowly raise after it cycles a couple times. My PPM's are much more stable too.

To start this, I pumped out 12 gallons of old mix, and mixed up 12 new gallons and put it in. Remember, salt deposits are part of that PPM. So the way I circulate, I will 4 gallons of used water out, and put 8 gallons back in (they are going through about 4 gallons per day on their own).

Course, my experience might not help with your setup, but I feel your PH pain, and I wanted to help anyway I can!!

303 · Nov 28, 2012

Not knocking on your nutrients, just I think it could be the culprit, esp in my exp thats roots shit fucks with the ph immensely, and organic in hydro... I smell your nutrients might be the problem, but I have no exp with the roots organic in hydro.. Have you seen anyone on this site use it in hydro??

Krondizzel · Nov 28, 2012

but with 79 degree water your going to deal with problems...

Well, for starters, you'll have less oxygen in the water.

Second, who the heck wants to drink luke warm water after doing the mile run?

That h202 30% grade stuff is awesome. You don't really need to use a lot of it. Just a tiny bit about, 1 time per week.

Krondizzel · Nov 28, 2012

I'm not a fan of organic anything. (in this field of work) I put them in water, blast them with light and nutes, and enjoy the finish product. No need to make things complicated.

But that is my personal preference.

303 · Nov 28, 2012

Krondizzel said:
Well, for starters, you'll have less oxygen in the water.

Second, who the heck wants to drink luke warm water after doing the mile run?

That h202 30% grade stuff is awesome. You don't really need to use a lot of it. Just a tiny bit about, 1 time per week.

I used to use that, 5ml per 10 gal. I moved to Pythoff, ($50 per bottle vs $10 bottle H2O2) yeah a bit more expensive but its given me outstanding white roots using in conjunction with Rapid Start..

303 · Nov 28, 2012

Krondizzel said:
I'm not a fan of organic anything. (in this field of work) I put them in water, blast them with light and nutes, and enjoy the finish product. No need to make things complicated.

But that is my personal preference.

Its a hype, organics, (in mmj). I hear all the time these kids all want the "soil organics", but no reason to why other than the 'chemicals', which I flush. They can think what they want I'll keep getting them their "soil organics" to them out my NFT system. lol

PH fluctuating to much =(

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