Ph problem

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Jimi O'Connor

Active Member
So i have sohum soil in 5 gal cloth pots. Im guessing i have lockout. The bottom leaves are turning yellow at 1st i thought i had a deficiency. Im a newbie grower and i have never flushed bc of lockout. I checked the runoff and the ph was at 7.1. I ph (6.5) the 5 gallon jug i had with my tap water that i left outside to declorinate for 24 hrs i ran the 5 gallons through the pot and checked the tray periodically to check the ph and it never moved from 7.1. That was all the declorinated water i had, and it looked like black coffee. I don't understand I thought the ph was supposed to go down? thats what think the problem is. The sohum website said to keep the ph between 6.3 and 6.8. Idk how to get the ph down i thought flushing the 5 gals would lower it to atleast 6.8.
What am i doing wrong?

I keep seeing where some growers saying that they dont ph the water bc they grow organic, how the fuck do i do that?

Can i use the water that ran through the pot if i ph it to 6.5? Id imagine i lost alot of nutrients, the runoff water was black like coffee
 

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Modern Selections

Modern Selections

Well-Known Member
Agreed don't worry about runoff pH. Just make sure the input is pH 6.5.

Plants looks like in needs a shot of Grow nutrient. The yellowing of the lower leaves is a sign of Nitrogen deficiency.
 
Modern Selections

Modern Selections

Well-Known Member
You definitely don't want to use the runoff for watering.

You definitely want to pH the water properly with any method of growing.

Cannabis is a weed it will grow under most conditions. If you want high quality, make sure your environment is correct and you properly pH your inputs organic or not.

Good luck with your grow!
 
Modern Selections

Modern Selections

Well-Known Member
Run off means nothing. Lockout is a term created on the interwebs and you do not have that.

Just give the plant some veg nutes ph'd to 6.5 and the plant will be fine.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Jimi O'Connor said:
I checked the runoff its at 7.2 is that lockout?
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Lock out isn't a pH it is a state where nutrients are not within either a pH range for uptake or are hindered by ions competing for the same receptor sites. This article by Michigan State Extension explains pH availability and Muldar's Chart which shows ion antagonism/synergism:

More reasons for soil testing

Improper pH and higher than adequate nutrient levels are reasons for regular soil testing.
www.canr.msu.edu www.canr.msu.edu
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
Jimi O'Connor said:
I dont understand i was told its important to check, i checked it and it was 7.1 is that lockout? Is that why the plants eating itself?
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Bro, first of all, you're in living soil. You should not be watering until runoff, so you should not have any runoff to test. Runoff leaches the nutrients out of the soil. Runoff is for when using bottled nutes to push the salts out of the medium. When you're using dry amendments, you don't want to push amendments out of the soil.

Secondly, pH of runoff is not a reliable method of testing the soil's pH. Also, if you're worried about tenths of a point in pH (which it's on the logarithmic scale so that's fine) do you have a good pH pen that you calibrate weekly?
 
J

Jimi O'Connor

Active Member
ec121 said:
Bro, first of all, you're in living soil. You should not be watering until runoff, so you should not have any runoff to test. Runoff leaches the nutrients out of the soil. Runoff is for when using bottled nutes to push the salts out of the medium. When you're using dry amendments, you don't want to push amendments out of the soil.

Secondly, pH of runoff is not a reliable method of testing the soil's pH. Also, if you're worried about tenths of a point in pH (which it's on the logarithmic scale so that's fine) do you have a good pH pen that you calibrate weekly?
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Yea i have a good pen (Apera PH 20) I don't calibrate weekly, but i don't have any issues with my ph pen.

Everyone I speak to tells me a different story. "You need runoff" "you dont need runoff" the guy at the local hydroponic store that i got the sohum soil from told me ,"ph at 6.2 and I need 10% runoff" so the "salts don't build up". I looked up on the sohum website and it states there's no need to flush because there's no salt based nutrients in the soil. Everyone is constantly confusing.

So i took some pictures of what they look like today. If anyone can chime in and let me know what they think. Theres some kindcof deficiency on 2 of the plants im wondering if its magnesium deficiency i have calmag so im hoping its an easy fix.

Id like to flip them soon. I guess its supposed to be 3 weeks worth of food for veg and then 8 weeks of flowering. Ive been so caught up with solving the problems i haven't been able to do any LST
 

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E

ec121

Well-Known Member
Jimi O'Connor said:
Yea i have a good pen (Apera PH 20) I don't calibrate weekly, but i don't have any issues with my ph pen.
Click to expand...
How do you know you don't have issues with your pen if you don't calibrate it regularly? In scientific labs where tenths of a point are necessary to be accurate, they calibrate every single day before use and these pens cost over $1000. pH pens drift and you will not be able to perceive it when they do. At the very least, you should dip it into reference solution here and there to see if the number is the same as the solution to see if it needs calibration.


Jimi O'Connor said:
Everyone I speak to tells me a different story. "You need runoff" "you dont need runoff" the guy at the local hydroponic store that i got the sohum soil from told me ,"ph at 6.2 and I need 10% runoff" so the "salts don't build up". I looked up on the sohum website and it states there's no need to flush because there's no salt based nutrients in the soil. Everyone is constantly confusing.
Click to expand...
It's simple. If you're using salt-based nutrients, then you need runoff to push the salts out and the nutrients will be replenished with the fresh nutrients watered to the plant. If you're using organic dry amendments, then you don't want runoff because all you're doing is pushing the nutrients out of the soil and you'll have to give it food earlier than expected.

Jimi O'Connor said:
So i took some pictures of what they look like today. If anyone can chime in and let me know what they think. Theres some kindcof deficiency on 2 of the plants im wondering if its magnesium deficiency i have calmag so im hoping its an easy fix.

Id like to flip them soon. I guess its supposed to be 3 weeks worth of food for veg and then 8 weeks of flowering. Ive been so caught up with solving the problems i haven't been able to do any LST
Click to expand...
First off, don't even think about flipping them. If you think you're having problems now, then flipping them is going to exacerbate the issues ten fold. Wait as many weeks as it takes to make them 100% healthy before flipping.

You have an iron deficiency. The other pictures you posted before showed a nitrogen deficiency. There are various reasons why and not just "there's not enough iron, let me give it some." For example, if you were dehydrated and I brought you a sealed 5-gallon plastic jug of water but your hands are tied behind your back, giving you another jug of water isn't going to solve the dehydration issue; untying your hands will.

So, how often are you watering? Don't be vague with an answer like, "I water whenever it's dry" because that means different things to different people. We know you're watering until runoff, but do you let it sit for 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days... before you water again?

Might as well know what's the light wattage, distance, and dim setting.
 
J

Jimi O'Connor

Active Member
ec121 said:
How do you know you don't have issues with your pen if you don't calibrate it regularly? In scientific labs where tenths of a point are necessary to be accurate, they calibrate every single day before use and these pens cost over $1000. pH pens drift and you will not be able to perceive it when they do. At the very least, you should dip it into reference solution here and there to see if the number is the same as the solution to see if it needs calibration.




It's simple. If you're using salt-based nutrients, then you need runoff to push the salts out and the nutrients will be replenished with the fresh nutrients watered to the plant. If you're using organic dry amendments, then you don't want runoff because all you're doing is pushing the nutrients out of the soil and you'll have to give it food earlier than expected.



First off, don't even think about flipping them. If you think you're having problems now, then flipping them is going to exacerbate the issues ten fold. Wait as many weeks as it takes to make them 100% healthy before flipping.

You have an iron deficiency. The other pictures you posted before showed a nitrogen deficiency. There are various reasons why and not just "there's not enough iron, let me give it some." For example, if you were dehydrated and I brought you a sealed 5-gallon plastic jug of water but your hands are tied behind your back, giving you another jug of water isn't going to solve the dehydration issue; untying your hands will.

So, how often are you watering? Don't be vague with an answer like, "I water whenever it's dry" because that means different things to different people. We know you're watering until runoff, but do you let it sit for 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days... before you water again?

Might as well know what's the light wattage, distance, and dim setting.
Click to expand...
I was watering every 3 or 4 days depending on how dry it was. Since i waterd to run off it was every 4 days bc the pots had more water than usual. But to not sound vague, the majority of the time so far mostly 3 days.

The led light is 240 watts. I have it on 60% power setting (im guessing thats what you mean by dim) the light distance is about 14" - 16" away. Some plants are taller than others.

I have calmag that has iron in it should I give it to the plants that have what you say is iron deficiency now or wait till it needs to be waterd and then give it to them?
 
J

Jimi O'Connor

Active Member
ec121 said:
How do you know you don't have issues with your pen if you don't calibrate it regularly? In scientific labs where tenths of a point are necessary to be accurate, they calibrate every single day before use and these pens cost over $1000. pH pens drift and you will not be able to perceive it when they do. At the very least, you should dip it into reference solution here and there to see if the number is the same as the solution to see if it needs calibration.




It's simple. If you're using salt-based nutrients, then you need runoff to push the salts out and the nutrients will be replenished with the fresh nutrients watered to the plant. If you're using organic dry amendments, then you don't want runoff because all you're doing is pushing the nutrients out of the soil and you'll have to give it food earlier than expected.



First off, don't even think about flipping them. If you think you're having problems now, then flipping them is going to exacerbate the issues ten fold. Wait as many weeks as it takes to make them 100% healthy before flipping.

You have an iron deficiency. The other pictures you posted before showed a nitrogen deficiency. There are various reasons why and not just "there's not enough iron, let me give it some." For example, if you were dehydrated and I brought you a sealed 5-gallon plastic jug of water but your hands are tied behind your back, giving you another jug of water isn't going to solve the dehydration issue; untying your hands will.

So, how often are you watering? Don't be vague with an answer like, "I water whenever it's dry" because that means different things to different people. We know you're watering until runoff, but do you let it sit for 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days... before you water again?

Might as well know what's the light wattage, distance, and dim setting.
Click to expand...
Also do you mind telling me why i have the iron deficiency so in the future I can try and prevent it?
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
Jimi O'Connor said:
I was watering every 3 or 4 days depending on how dry it was. Since i waterd to run off it was every 4 days bc the pots had more water than usual. But to not sound vague, the majority of the time so far mostly 3 days.

The led light is 240 watts. I have it on 60% power setting (im guessing thats what you mean by dim) the light distance is about 14" - 16" away. Some plants are taller than others.

I have calmag that has iron in it should I give it to the plants that have what you say is iron deficiency now or wait till it needs to be waterd and then give it to them?
Click to expand...
AC Infinity light? Probably a bit too bright at this stage. Pushing light means your nutrition and environment has to be on point.


Jimi O'Connor said:
Also do you mind telling me why i have the iron deficiency so in the future I can try and prevent it?
Click to expand...
Like I said, a deficiency is a symptom; it doesn't necessarily, in and of itself, explain what is the cause. If I showed you a picture of my girlfriend's vomit and asked you what caused it, unless the vomit was laden with obvious bloody mary mix, you'd probably have more questions than answers, and thus starts the process of elimination through a dichotomous key.

So, some of the causes of an iron deficiency can be from overwatering, excess manganese, excess copper, excess zinc, or soil that is too alkaline.

With your watering tactics, one can pretty safely eliminate an excess of any micronutrients. Runoff pH isn't reliable enough to assert the soil pH is alkaline. At the very least, calibrate your pH pen and do a slurry test, as someone else suggested, if you want to keep going down the pH hole.

Probably just easier to start by giving it a shot of balanced grow nutrients, as another poster mentioned. You'll have to consider how time-released your nutrients are in the soil you're using, so you probably want to make it pretty small if using bottled nutrients.

Next grow, you should probably just go with coco and synthetics. Water with nutrients every day to runoff and make sure you're balancing each part and keeping the EC in range and it's pretty easy to get the plant what it needs. Might be more of a pain in the ass with mixing nutes regularly, but not a whole lot of mystery because the plant only gets what you give it, so it's easier to figure out problems and quicker to remedy them.
 
J

Jimi O'Connor

Active Member
ec121 said:
AC Infinity light? Probably a bit too bright at this stage. Pushing light means your nutrition and environment has to be on point.




Like I said, a deficiency is a symptom; it doesn't necessarily, in and of itself, explain what is the cause. If I showed you a picture of my girlfriend's vomit and asked you what caused it, unless the vomit was laden with obvious bloody mary mix, you'd probably have more questions than answers, and thus starts the process of elimination through a dichotomous key.

So, some of the causes of an iron deficiency can be from overwatering, excess manganese, excess copper, excess zinc, or soil that is too alkaline.

With your watering tactics, one can pretty safely eliminate an excess of any micronutrients. Runoff pH isn't reliable enough to assert the soil pH is alkaline. At the very least, calibrate your pH pen and do a slurry test, as someone else suggested, if you want to keep going down the pH hole.

Probably just easier to start by giving it a shot of balanced grow nutrients, as another poster mentioned. You'll have to consider how time-released your nutrients are in the soil you're using, so you probably want to make it pretty small if using bottled nutrients.

Next grow, you should probably just go with coco and synthetics. Water with nutrients every day to runoff and make sure you're balancing each part and keeping the EC in range and it's pretty easy to get the plant what it needs. Might be more of a pain in the ass with mixing nutes regularly, but not a whole lot of mystery because the plant only gets what you give it, so it's easier to figure out problems and quicker to remedy them.
Click to expand...
The only path i want to continue down is the one that fixes the problems. So the ac infinity light at 60% power is to much? I raised it up a few inches.

So can you tell me what you mean by a balanced shot of nutrients? If my soil already has nutrients in it if i add more wont it burn the plants? And if it was your call what nutrients would you use? The only thing ive added besides ph water is recharge. Won't bottle nutrients fuck up the organic system or whatever you want to call it?


I only have a 3x3 tent and my 1st grow the plants got to tall after i flipped them. Im trying to flip asap so what the hell do i need to do to get thies lady's ready.


I was told that organic growing was the easiest. That the plants "grow themselves", and organic will grow the best quality buds. Im thinking if this is the easiest way then im never gonna be good at growing weed, im struggling even with the "just add water" stuff wtf!

Im not 100% sure what the slurry test is. My ph pen is good to go though, just to be safe i calibrated it after you guys made the suggestions. I keep it in the case with the storage solution. So far ive never had any problems. I know most growers use blue labs, the one i got is made by a company called Apera, the model is "PH 20"

I took a cpl pics of what the plants look like today
 

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calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
The electric meters aren't useful for me. I have a drainage system where all the pots (coco) drain out 1 pipe into my sump pump and go to my forest by my house (they love it). I'll occasionally catch a gallon of the runoff and read the pH and have found it to be a good accurate test, I Just try to catch the "tails" of the runoff or the end of the stream, pH that and usually it matches slurry tests.

Rootzone pH matters more than Solution pH.

Say you have 7.0 pH runoff and you want 6.0 you need to do some heavy runoff feeds at 6.0 or even go as low as 5.8 until your runoff is in a more suitable range.

pH Drops are never inaccurate so I would suggest using those, General Hydroponics pH Drops I prefer. Costs me like $10/year and I use them regularly. You can buy quart bottles of the testing solution.
 
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