PHing organics?

ive heard you dont need to PH water when using organics, and this is my first organic grow but im already facing ph problems, leaves are canoeing and turning, and i have PH'd every water! but now ive been hearing that PH solution kills the beneficials in your water, so im at a total loss of what to do.

curling leaves... whats your temp? day/night

im growing outdoor in socal, day temps get up to the 80's night gets down to high 50's. some are curling but most are coneing upwards and turning

im more interested in whether ph solution kills organic beneficials, can someone please help me out

most ph solution do kill organic beneficials but you can use organic lemon juice as a ph down [h=1][/h]

It depends somewhat on the brand and ingredients are in the product. Liquid pH Up and Down products are intended more for use with hydroponics setups not using any organic medium. It is the synthetic liquid pH Up that is something of a concern. Microbes don't generally like any sudden changes in pH, but some brands of pH Up contain potassium hydroxide which is antimicrobial. Earth Juice does make a natural Up and Down, but again these are really more for hydroponics. Liquid solutions are really only temporary and IMO can cause more issues in soil.

Most of us doing organics in soil or soil-less make sure we have dolomite lime incorporated into the mix before planting. Garden lime comes as calcite or dolomite lime, the former is just calcium carbonate whereas dolomite also contains magnesium. Ca and Mg are both needed plant nutrients, and cannabis tends to want a good amount of both.
Lime is perfectly safe, difficult to over-do and it neutralizes acidity over time while supplying Ca and Mg. Generally 1-2 (heaping) tablespoons per gallon of mix are added. You can also apply to containers by scratching it into the surface and then watering in thoroughly. With a deficiency or really low pH it might take a week before the plant really starts to recover.

I don't worry much about the pH of anything I apply to the soil. Microbes themselves are managing the pH in specific zones of the rhizosphere, which is where it counts.

Nullis said:

It depends somewhat on the brand and ingredients are in the product. Liquid pH Up and Down products are intended more for use with hydroponics setups not using any organic medium. It is the synthetic liquid pH Up that is something of a concern. Microbes don't generally like any sudden changes in pH, but some brands of pH Up contain potassium hydroxide which is antimicrobial. Earth Juice does make a natural Up and Down, but again these are really more for hydroponics. Liquid solutions are really only temporary and IMO can cause more issues in soil.

Most of us doing organics in soil or soil-less make sure we have dolomite lime incorporated into the mix before planting. Garden lime comes as calcite or dolomite lime, the former is just calcium carbonate whereas dolomite also contains magnesium. Ca and Mg are both needed plant nutrients, and cannabis tends to want a good amount of both.
Lime is perfectly safe, difficult to over-do and it neutralizes acidity over time while supplying Ca and Mg. Generally 1-2 (heaping) tablespoons per gallon of mix are added. You can also apply to containers by scratching it into the surface and then watering in thoroughly. With a deficiency or really low pH it might take a week before the plant really starts to recover.

I don't worry much about the pH of anything I apply to the soil. Microbes themselves are managing the pH in specific zones of the rhizosphere, which is where it counts.

Click to expand...

So by adding the dolomite lime it'll bring me to a good ph? Or do i need to add something else too depending if it's higher or lower?

Depends if you too acidic or too alkaline, but if you use a good soil mix thats already done like promix or fox farms, they come with everything to grow healthy plants, im in flowering right now and have some ugly plants but im in week 11 too lol

Epson salts will raise ph so it becomes more alkaline, 1-14 is usually the readings and they say you want 6.8 for soil so aim for that

Im not trying to step on anyones foot but I dont ph my water, they say general organics doesnt need it and so far I say its true. Im happy is all I can say. Cheers everyone!

for gods sake don't add dolomite....chances are your soil is alkaline if you're in the desert (so-cal...)

what soil are they in? are you feeding them anything? what time of day do you water? pics? we need more info....lol

I assume the OP is growing indoors, with a store-purchased potting "soil" or mix, since no details were provided I assuming he has purchased a natural\organic mix for container growing... notice how I mentioned soil\soil-less and containers.

BTW, Epsom salt has virtually no affect on pH.

Most potting soil\mix contains sphagnum-peat moss, which is acidic. It may also contain coco coir, as many new mixes do, and coir has a slightly more neutral pH than sphagnum. When you buy a mix like this, e.g. Ocean Forest or Sunshine Advanced #4 it comes limed, however there is often not enough initially to keep media pH in the 6.5-7 range for very long. Cannabis plants also enjoy calcium and magnesium. So if this is the case... yeah, dolomite. This is how I have been growing for quite some time indoors with rain water (or sometimes bottled water). If you use rain, distilled, bottled, RO water like I do you'll benefit from more dolomite. If you use tap or well water that has a high TDS and consequently, more dissolved minerals with a higher pH then no you wont require as much lime but a tablespoon per gallon isn't going to hurt.

Lime is great if you need to sweeten your soil.

If you need to acidify things - sulfur, most vegetable based composts, peat, and raw apple cider vinegar all do the trick.

AliCakes said:

Lime is great if you need to sweeten your soil.

If you need to acidify things - sulfur, most vegetable based composts, peat, and raw apple cider vinegar all do the trick.

Click to expand...

Hello. What is the general ball park in terms of amounts to lower ph from 6.8 to 6.4 with raw apple cider vinegar? Drops or teaspoons?

As to some of the comments in this thread, been using this stuff for well over a year without a known issue: Earth Juice Double Down 1-Quart Liquid pH Adjuster. For hydro and soil.

Why are we adjusting ph in organics?

bookechu said:

Why are we adjusting ph in organics?

Click to expand...

We adjust pH in organics for the same reason that we do in other forms of gardening. To prevent the lockout of certain nutrients. The microlife does help keep things in line, but sometimes they cannot keep up with either the plant's uptake, or additions that we as gardeners add. In nature, this is taken care of my allowing the plant to die, decompose, and then feed a different species that is more condusive to the current soil conditions. I, personally, want my soil to be not just fertile, but optimal for what I want to grow.....cannabis.

For, that, we need to keep it organically dense, properly draining, and slightly acidic. Depending on local conditions, you may or may not need to adjust your pH from time to time.

Gandalfa, I don't pH every time I water, but rather when my soil tests a bit high on pH. When that happens, I'll brew up a compost tea and add about 1 oz of ACV to each gallon of tea I am feeding the plant.

IMO pH isn't going to be (shouldn't be) homogenous throughout, as in it will vary potentially by at least a few points or more within niches of the rhizosphere. For example, when transplanting into larger containers I put down about a 2" layer of my base mix, and then sprinkle additional nutrients (PSG pellets, kelp, Azomite) followed by more base mix. I may add additional layers of nutrients as I am filling the container in, depending on its size and the size of the plant. Peruvian seabird guano itself tends to be alkaline, initially. Point is the mix isn't bland (natural forest soil isn't generally bland), I feel this helps keep it interesting for the plant roots and the symbiotic organisms (especially mycorrhizae as research has shown they would much rather go out and seek P for the plant than have it everywhere).

Plant roots as well as organisms are influencing the pH in the rhizosphere, where the root meets the soil, which I imagine would be difficult to measure accurately.

The kind of nitrogen you provide your plants can affect the pH over time. Plants can take up nitrogen as a cation (ammonium) or an anion (nitrate), which may upset pH balance. Ammonia-nitrogen (NH4+) is converted into nitrite and then nitrate (NO3-) by nitrifying bacteria/archaea, which liberates a few hydrogen ions, lowering pH. Hydrogen ions can combine with hydroxide ions, forming water and causing pH to rebound (raise) slightly under the right circumstances.

Soil and potting mix in general will resist sudden changes in pH. Humic and fulvic acids (found in compost, castings, humate powders, liquid supplements) play an important role helping plants assimilate nutrients that are bound or "locked up" in the soil. All in all it just becomes increasingly irrelevant what exactly the pH of the soil solution is, as long as it seems to be between 6 and 7. Since I grow in containers with potting mix based upon sphagnum peat, coir, humus\compost I know in general how much dolomite is needed to keep it near-neutral for a duration of time, and no pH adjustment seems necessary.

You guys are making this too complicated for him. Put some dolomite lime in your soil. 2tbsp per gallon. It controls ph fluctuations. No need to PH your water for soil. The lime does all the work. I water with straight tap water(ph 8 ) which according to you guys would be terrible for my plants. Fortunately i added 10tbsp of dolomite lime to my 5 gallon pots(80% peat based mix) before transplanting. And you know what? My plants look great with zero deficiency's.

Link to my grow. Its sunshine mix with dolomite lime, worm castings, blood meal, and bone meal added. Im using chemical ferts to help push it along, but not as much as i would normally. https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/662954-blackstar-240watt-led-cfl-purple.html

Dolomite lime does NOT control pH. It will sweeten the soil (RAISE pH). If his pH is already too high, this will only exacerbate the problem. An 80% peat solution makes sense to need sweetening. Peat is VERY acidic.

Nullis, I have no problem with some pH fluctuation, but like I said. Some areas are naturally high in pH.....some of us have to take minor steps to keep things from constantly raising.

Well, uh, this is all relative to ones intentions and tendency towards desired outcomes ignorance notwithstanding but... crap why do I always have to point people to do the dictionary? Not to be a literal son of a bitch but, yeah dolomite lime is a great way to control acidity over time.

Read my posts again and come back to me?